Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Namaste all I felt I had to draw attention to this mis-interpretation, hence the liberty taken with the subject title. Kindly excuse ( as they say in tamilnadu, India ) I am inclined to go with Swami Chinmayanda who squarely condemens people who have twisted a great concept into something ridiculous. Emphasis in Caps is mine. In 'Self Unfoldment' Page 59 swami chinmayananda says: [[The interpretation of Brahmacharya has been so badly distorted over the yearsthat the real significance of this discipline has been lost.Brahmacharya is popularly misunderstood to mean complete abstinence from sexual life. This is absurd. What the sages advise us is to abstain from excessive indulgence in any sensual pleasure.In short to talk too much or to listen to radio all day means not to follow principle of Brahmacharya.]] In the same page he also says: [[brahmacharya means LIVING IN SELF-CONTROL WITH RESPECT TO ALL OUR SENSES, BUT DOES NOT MEAN THEIR TOTAL DENIAL. The world of objects is meant for us to enjoy, and the scriptures do not deny us the freedom the enjoy it. But they do advise us to become masters of our enjoyments and not allow them to enslave us. The sages beeseech us Enjoy the world, but let not yhe world enjoy you. Eat food, but let not food eat you. Drink, but let not the drink drink you. ]] Thus Brahmacharya is one of the great values ( Like Satyam, Ahimsa) which can help guide the intellect make choices when presented with options by a turbulent mind. It is a value that can guide whatever Sadhana we undertake and whatever path we follow. To equate it to some kind of extreme stunt where we freeze up is to understand our wise ancestors incorrectly. Endless crores of Namaskarams to all Sridhar > > I have read in many books and listened to many teachers define Brahmacharya > as continence or celibacy. But does the word 'Brahmacharya' literally mean > that? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Namaste, As Stigji had mentioned, Brahmacharyam literally means 'moving in Brahman' (Brahma+charyam). However, SankarAchArya had equated this word to 'continence' (complete sexual abstinence) in his bhAshyam for one verse in muNdakOpanishad. I forgot the exact verse. The verse says about values like satyam, brahmacharyam etc. It is in 3rd munDaka. The word 'brahmacharyam' also occurs in the 2nd verse of prashna upanishad. There also it means sexual abstinence. Hari Om - "asridhar19" <asridhar19 > > [[brahmacharya means LIVING IN SELF-CONTROL WITH RESPECT TO ALL OUR > SENSES, BUT DOES NOT MEAN THEIR TOTAL DENIAL. The world of objects is > meant for us to enjoy, and the scriptures do not deny us the freedom > the enjoy it. But they do advise us to become masters of our > enjoyments and not allow them to enslave us. The sages beeseech us > > Enjoy the world, but let not yhe world enjoy you. Eat food, but > let not food eat you. Drink, but let not the drink drink you. > ]] > > Thus Brahmacharya is one of the great values ( Like Satyam, Ahimsa) > which can help guide the intellect make choices when presented with > options by a turbulent mind. It is a value that can guide whatever > Sadhana we undertake and whatever path we follow. To equate it to > some kind of extreme stunt where we freeze up is to understand our > wise ancestors incorrectly. > Endless crores of Namaskarams to all > Sridhar > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Namaste: While interpreting the words of spiritual leaders such as Swami Chinmyananda, we need to be careful. Swamiji's words according to my understanding is in the context of 'Self-unfoldment' and spiritual development. All that he wants to inform is that for anyone who wants to aspire to be liberated, should abstain from excessive indulge in anything including 'vedanta!' In the context of Hindu religious tradition, the Sanskrit term 'brahmacharya' (also 'sanyasa') implies strict adherence to certain code of conducts. For example, the Smartha brahmins from south India follow the traditions established by Sringeri and Kanchi Sankara Mutts. According to these Adi Sankara traditions, "Bramacharyam' means 100% abstinence from sexual life. The Sanyasis from both these institutions have to follow the code of conduct defined by the heads of those institutions. Acharyas of Chinmaya Mission, Ramakrishna Mission and Arsha Vidya Gurukulam maintain and follow 100% abstinence from sexual life. The tradition that is followed today is definitely not the same that was followed hundred or thousands of years back. These rules do vary in different institutions mostly influenced by time, location and leader of those institutions. In Tamil Smartha marrigage ceremonies, 'Kasiyathra' is an important part of the ceremony. Here is how it is explained: The boy has reached the adulthood and has to make an important decision about his life - whether to become a 'brahmarchari, go and settle in the city of Banaras for higher education or become a 'samsari, get married and raise a family with children.' During this ceremony, the girl's parents persuade the bridegroom that they are providing their dautghter as a gift (marriage is also known as kannikadhan - parents gifted their daughter to the boy). The bridegroom couldn't refuse such a noble lifetime gift and he promises that he will cherish and protect the gift for ever! The 'vedic traditions' are flexible in nature, but this doesn't mean that we can draw our own lines and conclusions without taking full account of their implications. Warmest regards, Ram Chandran advaitin, "asridhar19" <asridhar19> wrote: > Namaste all > > In 'Self Unfoldment' Page 59 swami chinmayananda says: > [[The interpretation of Brahmacharya has been so badly distorted over > the yearsthat the real significance of this discipline has been > lost.Brahmacharya is popularly misunderstood to mean complete > abstinence from sexual life. This is absurd. What the sages advise us > is to abstain from excessive indulgence in any sensual pleasure.In > short to talk too much or to listen to radio all day means not to > follow principle of Brahmacharya.]] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Namaste Ramji and Ranjeetji Your enlightening words do make my thinking progress further. It had opened up a subject I had considered closed in my mind. A few questions that come to mind below, again purely to get a better understanding, not so much to take a position: My belief was that 100% abstinence automatically happens as a spiritual seeker progressively turns his mind inwards and the vasanas get roasted. This is the process followed by the acharyas of Chinmaya and Ramakrishna mission. however,can pure suppression of the instinct be Brahmacharya ( like the cold turkey method used by smokers to quit)? Brhamacharya is also at a mental/thought level? Further does Brhamacharyam mean only 100% abstinence from sex or does it encompass indulgence other sense pleasures? If I am not mistaken, some Realized Rishis of yore were married and while they may exercise moderation, it may not have been 100% abstinence. They would however choose the auspicious times to beget good Rishiputras/ putris. So can it be categorically said that they compromised Brahmacharya? ( My belief would be that they adhered to Brahmacharyam in spirit and may be compromised the letter). I wonder if I am treading sensitive ground here. endless crores of namaskarams to all advaitins Sridhar advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <RamChandran@a...> wrote: > Namaste: > > While interpreting the words of spiritual leaders such as Swami > Chinmyananda, we need to be careful. Swamiji's words according to my > understanding is in the context of 'Self-unfoldment' and spiritual > development. All that he wants to inform is that for anyone who > wants to aspire to be liberated, should abstain from excessive > indulge in anything including 'vedanta!' > > In the context of Hindu religious tradition, the Sanskrit > term 'brahmacharya' (also 'sanyasa') implies strict adherence to > certain code of conducts. For example, the Smartha brahmins from > south India follow the traditions established by Sringeri and Kanchi > Sankara Mutts. According to these Adi Sankara > traditions, "Bramacharyam' means 100% abstinence from sexual life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Namaste Sridharji, - "asridhar19" <asridhar19 > > My belief was that 100% abstinence automatically happens as a > spiritual seeker progressively turns his mind inwards and the vasanas > get roasted. This is the process followed by the acharyas of Chinmaya > and Ramakrishna mission. however,can pure suppression of the > instinct be Brahmacharya ( like the cold turkey method used by > smokers to quit)? Yes, you are right. These pratices should not be forced upon anyone. Brahmacharya will come naturally to anyone who learns the subtle science of Vedanta in a pious manner. However, we should note that in the initial stages the qualities like shama and dama are to be practised continuously by a seeker of liberation. It is not that everyone will develop this quality from day-one itself. So a seeker should adhere to a certain amount of self-control in the early stages of his spiritual journey. People hailing from India will be familiar with the bullock carts used by the villagers. The villagers use these bullock carts to go to the towns for buying essential commodities. These bullocks know the way by heart. They dont need any maps or road directions. Many villagers usually sleep during their journey back to their village! The bullocks will safely reach the master's house and stay calm until the master wakes up. The bullocks have developed this quality by practice. Suppose a villager buys two new bullocks and sleeps during the way back home. It is sure that he wont reach the destination! Our senses and mind are like the bullocks. We have to exercise some control over them initially until it becomes natural. > Brhamacharya is also at a mental/thought level? The control at the thought level is very important. Remember Gita 3.6 - "karmEdriyANi saMyaMya ya Aste manasA smaraN..." > Further does Brhamacharyam mean only 100% abstinence from sex or does > it encompass indulgence other sense pleasures? Brahmacharyam is essentially Celibacy and a pious study of the scriptures. > If I am not mistaken, some Realized Rishis of yore were married and > while they may exercise moderation, it may not have been 100% > abstinence. They would however choose the auspicious times to beget > good Rishiputras/ putris. So can it be categorically said that they > compromised Brahmacharya? ( My belief would be that they adhered to > Brahmacharyam in spirit and may be compromised the letter). There is no compromise in this matter. This is my belief. Hari Om Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Namaste: Since you have started reading the 'Self-unfoldment' I suggest that you complete the book thoroughly and it does contain the answers that you are seeking. Ideally, such books should studied collectively in 'Satsangh' set up and Swami Chinmanayanda has written his books for that purpose. 'self-reading' of vedantic books can never provide the 'full light' and reading of books is a good beginning and it is not the end. The purpose and goal of thsi electronic satsangh is to provide 'more light' through the exchanging of view points. I also recommend you to read Gita chapters 4, 5 and 6 where Lord Krishna provide a more complete understanding of the term 'renunciation' which is very relevant to answer your questions. Lord Krishna is also called a 'Nithya Brahmachari' even though he was married. We are not as detached as 'Lord Krishna' and consequently we should follow the rules while starting our spiritual endeavor. Warmest regards, Ram Chandran advaitin, "asridhar19" <asridhar19> wrote: > Namaste Ramji and Ranjeetji > > Your enlightening words do make my thinking progress further. > It had opened up a subject I had considered closed in my mind. > A few questions that come to mind below, again purely to get a > better understanding, not so much to take a position: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Thanks Ramji A holistic view is always better than the selective. Actually I am part of a study group discussing self- unfoldment. It is just that I had jumped a few chapters ahead and the topic of Brahmacharya came up on this list at exactly the same time. Will also check the BG Chapters. Let me make haste to close this sub thread on mal-interpretation.. thanks once again for the pointers I recd. from you and the group. Many thousand pranams to all advaitins Sridhar advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <RamChandran@a...> wrote: > Namaste: > > Since you have started reading the 'Self-unfoldment' I suggest that > you complete the book thoroughly and it does contain the answers > that you are seeking. Ideally, such books should studied > collectively in 'Satsangh' set up and Swami Chinmanayanda has > written his books for that purpose. 'self-reading' of vedantic books > can never provide the 'full light' and reading of books is a good > beginning and it is not the end. The purpose and goal of thsi > electronic satsangh is to provide 'more light' through the > exchanging of view points. I also recommend you to read Gita > chapters 4, 5 and 6 where Lord Krishna provide a more complete > understanding of the term 'renunciation' which is very relevant to > answer your questions. > > Lord Krishna is also called a 'Nithya Brahmachari' even though he > was married. We are not as detached as 'Lord Krishna' and > consequently we should follow the rules while starting our spiritual > endeavor. > > Warmest regards, > > Ram Chandran > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Namaste Ranjeetji, You have mentioned that Brahmancharyam is essentially Celibacy & study of shastras. However the very same Prashna Upanishad you have quoted states the following: Those who indulge in sex in the day, waste away Prana. That they indulge in sex at night is as good as celibacy (brahmacharyam). 1:13 Therefore, we cannot say that Brahmacharyam is complete celibacy. However, Shankara in his bhashyam on the Mundaka verse you have mentioned, could have applied such a restriction to Sannyasis. In the introduction to the bhashya to that verse, he has referred it to the sannyasis. Mundaka verse 3:2:4 also supports this view as it mentions that knoweldge without monasticism cannot reveal this knowledge. I believe Shankara was pretty much certain that Vedanta was only for Sannyasins. That was the tradition in those times. I believe there are still many acharyas who hold this view in this present age. best regards, K Kathirasan > > Ranjeet Sankar [sMTP:thefinalsearch] > Thursday, March 04, 2004 11:41 PM > advaitin > Re: Re: Brahmacharya-mal interpretation > > Further does Brhamacharyam mean only 100% abstinence from sex or does > > it encompass indulgence other sense pleasures? > > > Brahmacharyam is essentially Celibacy and a pious study of the scriptures. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Namaste Kathirasanji, - "K Kathirasan NCS" <kkathir > > Those who indulge in sex in the day, waste away Prana. That they indulge in > sex at night is as good as celibacy (brahmacharyam). 1:13 > Therefore, we cannot say that Brahmacharyam is complete celibacy. Thanks for pointing this out. I will check this verse in His bhAsyam and will revert if He has anything more to say. > I believe Shankara was pretty much certain that > Vedanta was only for Sannyasins. That was the tradition in those times. I > believe there are still many acharyas who hold this view in this present > age. You can add one brahmachAri to the list ;-) Hari Om Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Pranaams to all, This is my first posting to the group; I joined the group recently. And incidently just when this crucial question is bothering me from few weeks, this topic has come in the group. As pointed out in some previous message, regarding "kashi yathra"..I am in a similar stage of my life; I want to decide, which way do I go. Samsaari or Sanyasi. Of course, for both, to be an ideal householder or a perfect sanyasi, I need a run up / proper buildup and I think I need to be mentally prepared for that... Further these messages have raised question of the whole concept of brahmacharya I had...Mainly readings of swami sivananda, vivekananda etc... Swami Vivekananda's says.."A man who wants to be a perfect Yogi must give up the sex idea. The soul has no sex; why should it degrade itself with sex ideas?" Agreed that once thro' and after crossing some threshold level, a person indeed may lose out totally sex idea, attributing to seemingly much more pleasure-giving spiritual conciousness..Happiness.. But for a novice seeker, shouldn't he decide and train the mind right from the awareness that there is definitely soemthing more than the usual life??? I am confused, can someone please enlighten me more on brahmacharya... Hari Om. Pradeep advaitin, "Ranjeet Sankar" <thefinalsearch> wrote: > Namaste Kathirasanji, > > - > "K Kathirasan NCS" <kkathir@n...> > > > > Those who indulge in sex in the day, waste away Prana. That they indulge > in > > sex at night is as good as celibacy (brahmacharyam). 1:13 > > Therefore, we cannot say that Brahmacharyam is complete celibacy. > > > Thanks for pointing this out. I will check this verse in His bhAsyam and > will revert if He has anything more to say. > > > > I believe Shankara was pretty much certain that > > Vedanta was only for Sannyasins. That was the tradition in those times. I > > believe there are still many acharyas who hold this view in this present > > age. > > > You can add one brahmachAri to the list ;-) > > Hari Om Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Namaste: You have asked some serious questions for which you should look for answers inward! In the earlier discussion, the book "self- unfoldment" was mentioned and as the title says, you have to unfold your self! The best source of question on "perfect yogi" is Bhagavad Gita. Chapters 5 and 6 provide lengthy discussion on this topic. The follwoing verses (the meanings are provided) Gita Chapter 5 Verses: 20 "He, who, with reason firm and free from doubt, rejoices not on obtaining what is agreeable, and does not feel perturbed on meeting with the unpleasant, that knower of Brahman lives eternally in indentity with It." 21 "He, whose mind remains unattached to external enjoyments, derives through meditation the unmixed joy, which is inherent in the soul; then that Yogi, having completely identified himself, through meditation with Brahman, enjoys eternal bliss." 22 "The pleasures which are born of sense-contacts are verily sources of pain (though appearing as enjoyable to worldly-minded people). They have a beginning and an end (they come and go). Arjuna, it is for this reason that a wise man does not indulge in" them. 23 "He, who is able to stand here on earth, before casting off this body, the urges of lust and anger, he is a Yogi - a harmonized soul; he is a happy man." 24 "He, who is happy within himself, enjoys within himself the delight of the soul, and even so is illuminated by the inner light (light of the soul), such a Yogi (Sankhyajogi) identified with Brahman attains Brahman, who is all Peace." 25 "The seers whose sins have been washed away, whose doubts have been dispelled by Knowledge, whose mind is firmly established in God and who are actively engaged in promoting the welfare of all beings, attains Brahman, who is all peace" 26 "To those wise men, who are free from lust and anger, who have subdued their mind and have realized God, Brahman, the abode of eternal peace, is present all round." 27 "Shutting out the thoughts of external sense-enjoyments, with the eyes fixed on the space between the eye-brows, having equalized the Prana and Apana breaths (outward and inward breaths) flowing within the nostrils," 28 "He who has brought his senses, mind and reason under control, such a contemplative soul intent on libaration and free from desire fear and anger, is ever liberated." 29 "Having known Me in reality as the enjoyer of sacrifices and austerities, the supreme Lord of all the worlds, and the disinterested friend of all beings, My devotee attains peace." Gita Chapter 6 Verses; 1 "Sri Bhagavan said, He, who does his duty without expecting the fruit of actions, is a Sannyasi (Sankhyayogi) and a Yogi (Karmayogi) both. He is no Sannyasi (renouncer) who has merely renounced the scared fire; even so, he is no Yogi, who has merely" given up all activity. 2 "Arjuna, what they speak of as Sannyasa, know that to be the same as Yoga; for none becomes a Yogi, who has not given up thoughts of the world." 3 "To the contemplative soul, who desires to rise to the heights of Karmayoga (in the form of equanimity), action without motive is spoken of as the ladder; for the same man when he is established in Yoga, tranquillity of mind (absence of all thoughts of the world) is spoken of as the way (to blessedness). 4 "When a man ceases to have any attachment either for the objects of senses or for actions and has renounced all thoughts of the world, he is said to have attained Yoga." 5 "One should lift oneself up by one's own efforts and should not degrade oneself; for one's own self is one's friend, and one's own self is one's enemy." 6 "One's own self is the friend of that soul by whom the lower self (viz., the mind, the senses and the body) has been conquered; on the other hand, the very self of him, who not conquered his lower self, behaves inimically like one's own enemy." 7 "The Supreme spirit is firmly established in the knowledge of the self-controlled man whose mind is perfectly calm in the midst of pairs of opposites, such as cold and heat, joy and sorrow, and honour and ignominy." 8 "The Yogi whose mind is sated with Jnana (Knowledge of Nirguna Brahma) and Vijnana (Knowledge of manifest Divinity), who is unchangeable under all circumstances, whose senses are thoroughly subdued, and to whom a clod, a stone and a piece of gold makeno difference, is spoken of as a God-realized soul." 9 "He, who regards well wishers, friends, foes, neutrals, mediators, the objects of hatred, relatives, the virtuous and the sinful alike, stands supreme." 10 "The Yogi, who has subdued his mind and body, and who is free from desire and bereft of possessions, - living in seclusion all by himself alone he should constantly engage his mind in meditation." Also the verses 55 to 72 of chapter 2 provides a complete summary of the nature of the "perfect yogi - how he talks, walks and behaves" Warmest regards, Ram Chandran advaitin, "Pradeep" <p_r_a_d_e_e_p_7> wrote: > Pranaams to all, > > This is my first posting to the group; I joined the group recently. > And incidently just when this crucial question is bothering me from > few weeks, this topic has come in the group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Dear Sri Pradeepji, Namaste, I would suggest you study "Vivekachoodamani" of Adi Sri Shankaracharya, if you have not already studied it. It covers from sloka 16, the "qualifictions" required for a person launching on Self Enquiry. A Gruhasta can definitely do self enquiry, and brahmacharya etc. takes place as he proceeds, side by side, slowly in some degree. Warm regards and hari Om Mani Pradeep <p_r_a_d_e_e_p_7 wrote: Pranaams to all, This is my first posting to the group; I joined the group recently. And incidently just when this crucial question is bothering me from few weeks, this topic has come in the group. As pointed out in some previous message, regarding "kashi yathra"..I am in a similar stage of my life; I want to decide, which way do I go. Samsaari or Sanyasi. Of course, for both, to be an ideal householder or a perfect sanyasi, I need a run up / proper buildup and I think I need to be mentally prepared for that... Further these messages have raised question of the whole concept of brahmacharya I had...Mainly readings of swami sivananda, vivekananda etc... Swami Vivekananda's says.."A man who wants to be a perfect Yogi must give up the sex idea. The soul has no sex; why should it degrade itself with sex ideas?" Agreed that once thro' and after crossing some threshold level, a person indeed may lose out totally sex idea, attributing to seemingly much more pleasure-giving spiritual conciousness..Happiness.. But for a novice seeker, shouldn't he decide and train the mind right from the awareness that there is definitely soemthing more than the usual life??? I am confused, can someone please enlighten me more on brahmacharya... Hari Om. Pradeep advaitin, "Ranjeet Sankar" <thefinalsearch> wrote: > Namaste Kathirasanji, > > - > "K Kathirasan NCS" <kkathir@n...> > > > > Those who indulge in sex in the day, waste away Prana. That they indulge > in > > sex at night is as good as celibacy (brahmacharyam). 1:13 > > Therefore, we cannot say that Brahmacharyam is complete celibacy. > > > Thanks for pointing this out. I will check this verse in His bhAsyam and > will revert if He has anything more to say. > > > > I believe Shankara was pretty much certain that > > Vedanta was only for Sannyasins. That was the tradition in those times. I > > believe there are still many acharyas who hold this view in this present > > age. > > > You can add one brahmachAri to the list ;-) > > Hari Om Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To Post a message send an email to : advaitin Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages advaitin/ advaitin Search - Find what you’re looking for faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <RamChandran@a...> wrote: > > You have asked some serious questions for which you should look for > answers inward! In the earlier discussion, the book "self- > unfoldment" was mentioned and as the title says, you have to unfold > your self! > > The best source of question on "perfect yogi" is Bhagavad Gita. > Chapters 5 and 6 provide lengthy discussion on this topic. The > follwoing verses (the meanings are provided) Namaste, The road-map to Advaita is simple! It is to change 'deha- buddhi'- (identification with the body)- to 'Atma-buddhi'. A conscious effort to do this is termed 'sAdhanA'. For one who wishes to follow the 'jnana-marga', Sadhana- chatushtaya is prescribed as the means. The constituents of these are perfected over many lives (aneka-janma-saMsiddhiH), every constituent is just as important. No single one can be emphasized to the neglect of others. This path is also known as the 'razor's edge' (kShurasya dhArA)! For a prosaic version of this, these sites may be helpful: http://www.yogaadvaita.org/text/jnana2.shtml http://www.dlsmd.org/teachings/sivananda/idealofsannyasa.htm In one of Sri Ramakrishna's parables, a student asks the Teacher when he will see God. The teacher puts the student's head under water until he struggles to come up out of it. The Teacher asks how the student feels. He replies that he was gasping for breath and his very life. The Teacher instructs him, 'When you feel like that for God, you will see Him!' Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Namaste Sunderji, I have been on the list for some months, but I try to stay "under the radar" since I barely understand most of the issues/terms. However, I have often wondered how one can function in the world/society while having the intensity you quote below. Also, a somewhat naive question, I suppose: would that "feeling" be one of short duration ... or is Sri Ramarishna suggesting that once one reaches that state, it is maintained from that point on? Thanks, Bob Sunder Hattangadi wrote: > > In one of Sri Ramakrishna's parables, a student asks the > Teacher when he will see God. The teacher puts the student's head > under water until he struggles to come up out of it. The Teacher asks > how the student feels. He replies that he was gasping for breath and > his very life. The Teacher instructs him, 'When you feel like that > for God, you will see Him!' > > > Regards, > > Sunder > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Namaste Bob, Happy to see you within the radar range! Once the 'wave' realises its identity with the 'ocean', its activities are determined by the ocean. Buddha, Ramakrishna, Ramana, and many others lived full & fulfilled lives for decades after their enlightenment. The question of intensity is applicable only in the state of 'duality/plurality' separation. Shravana-manana-nididhyasana (listening-contemplation- meditation) are the extension of the spiritual practice which began with 'sadhana-chatushtaya', and all these function as naturally and reflexively as one's breathing after enlightenment, so one does not have to gasp or pant for breath thereafter! Hope to see you move on the radar screen more frequently!! Regards, Sunder advaitin, Bob Freedman <rlfreed@p...> wrote: > Namaste Sunderji, > > I have been on the list for some months, but I try to stay "under the > radar" since I barely understand most of the issues/terms. > However, I have often wondered how one can function in the world/society > while having the intensity you quote below. > > Also, a somewhat naive question, I suppose: would that "feeling" be one > of short duration ... or is Sri Ramarishna suggesting that once one > reaches that state, it is maintained from that point on? > > Thanks, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Namaste Sri Bob: Let me add few points in addition to the answer prover provided by Sunderji. Now that you have exposed yourself to the radar screen, you are likely to be watched! The question that you have raised may also occur to Tom who won a million dollars in a lottery. The answer to this question depends on what Tom is going to do with the million dollars. Suppose Tom was inside the dark cave and after greater efforts, suppose he got out of the cave and see the 'Light.' Will that light be for a short duration? Unless Tom wishes to go back to the dark cave, he should be able to enjoy the 'Light'permanantly. Spiritual growth can only move upward and this statement can't be proved but we need to have 'strong faith' to believe that it is so. Great saints and sages have demonstrated that it is so and they have said it is so. Also the Upanishads and Gita contain substantive statements in support of this belief. When we affirm that we can see 'God' we accept the subtle truth "that God is everywhere in the form of everything that I encounter including me (friends, foes, relatives, animals, plants, moveables and immovables). This means that we should learn live coexistent with everyone instead of separating and dividing! The sages of the upanishads say: "Life is a bridge, enjoy while living without building any castle!" Warmest regards, Ram Chandran Note: The advaitin will say, "the me in you sees the you in me!" advaitin, Bob Freedman <rlfreed@p...> wrote: > Namaste Sunderji, > > I have been on the list for some months, but I try to stay "under the > radar" since I barely understand most of the issues/terms. > However, I have often wondered how one can function in the world/society Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Hello Asridhar19 , Ramana Maharshi often spoke about this issue. He told people that ´Brahmacharya´ means ´to abide in Brahman´ and that means ´to live in the Self (Atman).´ He spoke about the wrong interpretation coming to existence because people, in their ignorance, started to think that he who lives with Brahman constantly cannot have sexual relations. Namaste Fred - asridhar19 advaitin Thursday, March 04, 2004 5:53 AM Re: Brahmacharya-mal interpretation Namaste all I felt I had to draw attention to this mis-interpretation, hence the liberty taken with the subject title. Kindly excuse ( as they say in tamilnadu, India ) I am inclined to go with Swami Chinmayanda who squarely condemens people who have twisted a great concept into something ridiculous. Emphasis in Caps is mine. In 'Self Unfoldment' Page 59 swami chinmayananda says: [[The interpretation of Brahmacharya has been so badly distorted over the yearsthat the real significance of this discipline has been lost.Brahmacharya is popularly misunderstood to mean complete abstinence from sexual life. This is absurd. What the sages advise us is to abstain from excessive indulgence in any sensual pleasure.In short to talk too much or to listen to radio all day means not to follow principle of Brahmacharya.]] In the same page he also says: [[brahmacharya means LIVING IN SELF-CONTROL WITH RESPECT TO ALL OUR SENSES, BUT DOES NOT MEAN THEIR TOTAL DENIAL. The world of objects is meant for us to enjoy, and the scriptures do not deny us the freedom the enjoy it. But they do advise us to become masters of our enjoyments and not allow them to enslave us. The sages beeseech us Enjoy the world, but let not yhe world enjoy you. Eat food, but let not food eat you. Drink, but let not the drink drink you. ]] Thus Brahmacharya is one of the great values ( Like Satyam, Ahimsa) which can help guide the intellect make choices when presented with options by a turbulent mind. It is a value that can guide whatever Sadhana we undertake and whatever path we follow. To equate it to some kind of extreme stunt where we freeze up is to understand our wise ancestors incorrectly. Endless crores of Namaskarams to all Sridhar > > I have read in many books and listened to many teachers define Brahmacharya > as continence or celibacy. But does the word 'Brahmacharya' literally mean > that? > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To Post a message send an email to : advaitin Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages Links advaitin/ b.. advaitin c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.