ATale of two Birds ... the Ego and the Self

[Guest guest]

thanks you sri Ramachandranji for a wonderful post specially the

analogy of 'bird-watching' Thank you so much.

 

Birds ..

 

This reminds me of a famous passage from the Mundaka Upanishads...

 

Like two golden birds perched on the selfsame tree, intimate friends,

the ego and the Self dwell in the same body. The former eats the

sweet and sour fruits of the tree of life while the latter looks on

in detachment. As long as we think we are the ego, we feel attached

and fall into sorrow. But realize that you are the Self, the Lord of

life, and you will be freed from sorrow. When you realize that you

are the Self, supreme source of light, supreme source of love, you

transcend the duality of life and enter into the unitive state.

(Mundaka Up. 3:1-3)

 

**********************************************************************

They are two birds, close companions,

clasping the same tree.

Of the two, one eats sweet fruit;

the other looks on without eating.

On this same tree a person,

sunk and grieving in slavery, is deluded,

but upon observing the Lord happy and great,

becomes free of sorrow.

 

shvetashvatara up; 4.6)

 

**********************************************************************

samāne vṛkṣe puruṣo nimagno

 

'nīśayā śocati muhyamānaḥ

 

juṣṭaṃ yadā paśyaty anyam īśam

 

asya mahimānam iti vīta-śokaḥ (bg)

 

"Although the two birds are in the same tree, the eating bird is

fully engrossed with anxiety and moroseness as the enjoyer of the

fruits of the tree. But if in some way or other he turns his face to

his friend who is the Lord and knows His glories — at once the

suffering bird becomes free from all anxieties."

 

**********************************************************************

Folks, i love these analogies - the bird and the tree ! This body

itself is the Kalpavriksha tree !

 

love and blessings ! Enjoy your day !

[Guest guest]

--- adi_shakthi16 <adi_shakthi16 wrote:

>

> This reminds me of a famous passage from the Mundaka

> Upanishads...

>

> Like two golden birds perched on the selfsame tree,

> intimate friends,

> the ego and the Self dwell in the same body.

 

Namaste,

I wonder if you have any thoughts on the following,

whether you think that it is the source of the

Upanishads, and, if so, whether the fuller picture of

this Rgvedic Hymn adds anything to our understanding

of the Upanishadic interpretation:

RgVeda 1.164.

20 Two Birds with fair wings, knit with bonds of

friendship, in the same sheltering tree have found a

refuge.

One of the twain eats the sweet Fig-tree's fruitage;

the other eating not regardeth only.

21 Where those fine Birds hymn ceaselessly their

portion of life eternal, and the sacred synods,

There is the Universe's mighty Keeper, who, wise, hath

entered into me the simple.

22 The, tree whereon the fine Birds eat the sweetness,

where they all rest and procreate their offspring,-

Upon its top they say the fig is luscious none gaineth

it who knoweth not the Father.

 

I have extracted this from a very long hymn and maybe

its full context should be given along with the

sanskrit but this mail is just an initial question:

 

Many thanks

 

ken Knight

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Thank you ken!

 

i was delighted to read the hymn you have quoted! very poetic and

esoteric'...

 

The passage i quoted is from Mundaka Upanishad which is based on

Atharva veda.

 

What does Munda(ka) mean? Munda generally refers to the 'head' and in

this context, it means shaving of the head . - an upanishad whih

shaves of the 'obstacles' of the mind like ego etc...

 

The object of this uupanishad is to teach and impart the highest

knowledge of Brahman . One can do sacrifices or upasana and practice

yoga by breath control etc but all knowledge is incomplete without

the knowledge of the self.

 

I am sure other knowledgeble members in this group can throw light on

this subject ...

 

love and blessings

..

 

This Upanishad too has been often translated since it first appeared

p> > Like two golden birds perched on the selfsame tree,

> > intimate friends,

> > the ego and the Self dwell in the same body.

>

> Namaste,

> I wonder if you have any thoughts on the following,

> whether you think that it is the source of the

> Upanishads, and, if so, whether the fuller picture of

> this Rgvedic Hymn adds anything to our understanding

> of the Upanishadic interpretation:

> RgVeda 1.164.

> 20 Two Birds with fair wings, knit with bonds of

> friendship, in the same sheltering tree have found a

> refuge.

> One of the twain eats the sweet Fig-tree's fruitage;

> the other eating not regardeth only.

> 21 Where those fine Birds hymn ceaselessly their

> portion of life eternal, and the sacred synods,

> There is the Universe's mighty Keeper, who, wise, hath

> entered into me the simple.

> 22 The, tree whereon the fine Birds eat the sweetness,

> where they all rest and procreate their offspring,-

> Upon its top they say the fig is luscious none gaineth

> it who knoweth not the Father.

>

> I have extracted this from a very long hymn and maybe

> its full context should be given along with the

> sanskrit but this mail is just an initial question:

>

> Many thanks

>

> ken Knight

>

>

>

>

> Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.

> http://taxes./filing.html

[Guest guest]

advaitin, ken knight <anirvacaniya> wrote:

> > I wonder if you have any thoughts on the following,

> whether you think that it is the source of the

> Upanishads, and, if so, whether the fuller picture of

> this Rgvedic Hymn adds anything to our understanding

> of the Upanishadic interpretation:

> RgVeda 1.164.

> 20 Two Birds with fair wings, knit with bonds of

> friendship, in the same sheltering tree have found a

> refuge.

> One of the twain eats the sweet Fig-tree's fruitage;

> the other eating not regardeth only.

> 21 Where those fine Birds hymn ceaselessly their

> portion of life eternal, and the sacred synods,

> There is the Universe's mighty Keeper, who, wise, hath

> entered into me the simple.

> 22 The, tree whereon the fine Birds eat the sweetness,

> where they all rest and procreate their offspring,-

> Upon its top they say the fig is luscious none gaineth

> it who knoweth not the Father.

>

> I have extracted this from a very long hymn and maybe

> its full context should be given along with the

> sanskrit but this mail is just an initial question:

 

 

Namaste,

 

The translation appears to be that of Griffiths. Here is

Wilson's translation of Sayanacharya's commentary:

 

 

http://www.srivaishnava.org/scripts/veda/rv/rvbook1.htm

 

1.164.20 Two birds associated together, and mutual friends,

take refuge in the same tree; one of them eats the sweet fig;

the other abstaining from food, merely looks on. [Two birds

associated together: the vital and supreme spirit, jiva_tma_

and parama_tma_, are here alluded to using the metaphor of

the two birds; eats the sweet fig: pippalam sva_du atti: the

vital spirit enjoys the rewards of acts. dvau dvau pratis.t.hitau

sukr.tau dharmakarta_rau: two species of souls to be intended as

abiding in one body (Nirukta 14.30)].

1.164.21 Where the smooth-gliding (rays), cognizant (of their duty),

distil the perpetual portion of ambrosia (water); there has the

lord and steadfast protector all beings consigned me, (though)

immature (in wisdom). [smooth-gliding: supran.a = supatanah s'obhana

gamana ras'mayah, the goers easily or beautifully, the rays of the

sun; consigned me: A_ditya has admitted, or admits me, the reciter

of the hymn, to the sphere of the sun].

1.164.22 In the tree into which the smooth-gliding (rays) feeders

on the sweet (produce), enter, and again bring forth (light) over

all, they have called the fruit sweet, but he partakes not of it

who knows not the protector (of the universe). [The tree: the orb

or region of the sun; he partakes not of it, who: tan na unna s'ad

yah pitaram na veda: pitaram = pa_laka, cherisher, protector; the

sun, the supreme spirit].

 

This sounds more in tune with the Mundaka and Shvetashvatara

verses.

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

--- Sunder Hattangadi <sunderh wrote:

> yah pitaram na veda: pitaram = pa_laka, cherisher,

> protector; the

> sun, the supreme spirit].

> This sounds more in tune with the Mundaka

> and Shvetashvatara

> verses.

>

 

 

Namaste,

Such a problem is translation into English!!

Ultimately it must be what our own intuitive minds,

shining like the sun, we hope, unveil as the meaning.

I hope that this post is not overloading the site but

I thought it may be of interest to someone in the

future. I am posting below both the Wilson and the

Griffith together with the Sanskrit. Also the other

uses in in RV1.164 of pitaraM.

 

My own question on these verses was to wonder why the

concept of 'the father..pitaraM...disappears in the

Upanishads' versions of the 'two birds' tale.

Also, can any of the Sanskrit scholars out there tell

me if there is a valid etymological link between

pitaraM and pAlaka as implied by the Wilson

explanation. I understand, from the dictionary, the

use of the 'pA' as in 'watching, protecting etc.'

hence 'pAlaka' as world-protector. However from Monier

Monier Williams' dictionary, this would seem to be a

word not in use in the Vedic times and may not be a

valid synonym for pitaraM.

As my own study of this hymn focusses upon the

centrality of Vac, the Word, and how the rishi is here

describing its birth and relationship within the True

Sun, and the beautiful words flowing from that one

inspired by this Light, maybe the figure of Brihaspati

may help us to understand the use of pitaraM. But I am

speculating and must stop,

 

The relevant study is posted below:

 

Many thanks

 

ken Knight

 

The two Birds RV 1.164.20-22

Wilson's translation

1.164.20 Two birds associated together, and mutual

friends,

take refuge in the same tree; one of them eats the

sweet fig;

the other abstaining from food, merely looks on. [Two

birds

associated together: the vital and supreme spirit,

jiva_tma_

and parama_tma_, are here alluded to using the

metaphor of

the two birds; eats the sweet fig: pippalam sva_du

atti: the

vital spirit enjoys the rewards of acts. dvau dvau

pratis.t.hitau

sukr.tau dharmakarta_rau: two species of souls to be

intended as

abiding in one body (Nirukta 14.30)].

1.164.21 Where the smooth-gliding (rays), cognizant

(of their duty),

distil the perpetual portion of ambrosia (water);

there has the

lord and steadfast protector all beings consigned me,

(though)

immature (in wisdom). [smooth-gliding: supran.a =

supatanah s'obhana

gamana ras'mayah, the goers easily or beautifully, the

rays of the

sun; consigned me: A_ditya has admitted, or admits me,

the reciter

of the hymn, to the sphere of the sun].

1.164.22 In the tree into which the smooth-gliding

(rays) feeders

on the sweet (produce), enter, and again bring forth

(light) over

all, they have called the fruit sweet, but he partakes

not of it

who knows not the protector (of the universe). [The

tree: the orb

or region of the sun; he partakes not of it, who: tan

na unna s'ad

yah pitaram na veda: pitaram = pa_laka, cherisher,

protector; the

sun, the supreme spirit].

 

Griffith's translation + Sanskrit

 

20a dvaá suparNaá sayújaa sákhaayaa samaanáM vRkSám

pári Sasvajaate

a dvaá suparNaá sayújaa sákhaayaa b samaanám

vRkSám pári sasvajaate

 

c táyor anyáH píppalaM svaadv átty ánashnann anyó

abhí caakashiiti

c táyoH anyáH píppalam svaadú átti d ánashnan

anyáH abhí caakashiiti

Two Birds with fair wings, knit with bonds of

friendship, in the same sheltering tree have found a

refuge.

One of the twain eats the sweet Fig-tree's fruitage;

the other eating not regardeth only.

21a yátraa suparNaá amR'tasya bhaagám ánimeSaM

vidáthaabhisváranti

a yátra+ suparNaáH amR'tasya bhaagám b ánimeSam

vidáthaa abhisváranti

 

c inó víshvasya bhúvanasya gopaáH sá maa dhiíraH

paákam átraá vivesha

c ináH víshvasya bhúvanasya gopaáH d sá maa

dhiíraH paákam átra aá vivesha

Where those fine Birds hymn ceaselessly their portion

of life eternal, and the sacred synods,

There is the Universe's mighty Keeper, who, wise, hath

entered into me the simple.

22a yásmin vRkSé madhvádaH suparNaá nivishánte súvate

caádhi víshve

a yásmin vRkSé madhvádaH suparNaáH b nivishánte

súvate ca ádhi víshve

 

c tásyéd aahuH píppalaM svaadv ágre tán nón nashad

yáH pitáraM ná véda

c tásya ít aahuH píppalam svaadú ágre d tát ná

út nashat yáH pitáram ná véda

The, tree whereon the fine Birds eat the sweetness,

where they all rest and procreate their offspring,-

Upon its top they say the fig is luscious none gaineth

it who knoweth not the Father.

 

The Three Uses of PitaraM in this hymn:

 

1.164.08 The mother, (earth), worships the father,

(sun), with holy rites, for the sake of water; but he

has anticipated (her wants) in his mind; whereupon

desirous of progeny, she is penetrated by the dews of

impregnation, and, (all) expectant of abundance,

exchange words (of congratulation). [Exchange words:

metaphorical account of the agency of the sun sending

rain upon the earth and its consequent fertility].

8a maataá pitáram Rtá aá babhaaja dhiity ágre mánasaa

sáM hí jagmé

a maataá pitáram Rté aá babhaaja b dhiitií ágre

mánasaa sám hí jagmé

 

c saá biibhatsúr gárbharasaa níviddhaa námasvanta íd

upavaakám iiyuH

c saá biibhatsúH gárbharasaa níviddhaa d

námasvantaH ít upavaakám iiyuH

The Mother gave the Sire his share of Order: with

thought, at first, she wedded him in spirit.

She, the coy Dame, was filled with dew prolific: with

adoration men approached to praise her.

 

1.164.12 They have termed the five-footed,

twelve-formed parent, Puris.in, when in the further

hemisphere of the sky; and others have termed in

Arpita, when in the hither (portion of the sky);

shining in his seven-wheeled car), each (wheel) having

six spokes. [Puris.in: fr. puris.a, water; puris.in =

the sun, as the source of rain; the first five feet

are the five seasons, the dewy and cold seasons

forming one; the twelve forms are the twelve months,

or twelve a_dityas; arpita = adhi_nam or para_yattam,

dependent upon, and applicable to the sun, as

dependent upon, or influenced by, the course of the

year, or recurrence of the solstices; moving quick or

slow according to his southern or northern

declination; in the hither portion of the sky: upare =

where living creatures are delighted--uparamanta asmin

pra_n.inah; or, it may mean a year, va_ sam.vatsarah;

it may be related to the first line of the hymn: divah

pare ardhe, in the further part of the sky; upara may

imply the nearer or hither part, referring to the two

ayanas, or solstices; the seven wheels are the seven

rays, or the seven days of the week, the six spokes

are the six seasons].

 

12a páñcapaadam pitáraM dvaádashaakRtiM divá aahuH

páre árdhe puriiSíNam

a páñcapaadam pitáram dvaádashaakRtim b diváH

aahuH páre árdhe puriiSíNam

 

c áthemé anyá úpare vicakSaNáM saptácakre SáLara

aahur árpitam

c átha imé anyé úpare vicakSaNám d saptácakre

SáLare aahuH árpitam

They call him in the farther half of heaven the Sire

five-footed, of twelve forms, wealthy in watery store.

These others say that he, God with far-seeing eyes, is

mounted on the lower seven-wheeled, six-spoked car.

 

 

 

 

1.164.18 He who knows the protector of this (world) as

the inferior associated with the superior, and the

superior associated with the inferior, he is, as it

were, a sage; but who in this world can expound (it);

whence is the divine mind in its supremacy engendered?

 

18a aváH páreNa pitáraM yó asyaanuvéda pará enaávareNa

a aváH páreNa pitáram yáH asya b anuvéda paráH

enaá ávareNa

 

c kaviiyámaanaH ká ihá prá vocad devám mánaH kúto

ádhi prájaatam

c kaviiyámaanaH káH ihá prá vocat d devám mánaH

kútaH ádhi prájaatam

Who, that the father of this Calf discerneth beneath

the upper realm, above the lower,

Showing himself a sage, may here declare it? Whence

hath the Godlike spirit had its rising?

 

 

 

1.164.22 In the tree into which the smooth-gliding

(rays) feeders on the sweet (produce), enter, and

again bring forth (light) over all, they have called

the fruit sweet, but he partakes not of it who knows

not the protector (of the universe). [The tree: the

orb or region of the sun; he partakes not of it, who:

tan na unna s'ad yah pitaram na veda: pitaram =

pa_laka, cherisher, protector; the sun, the supreme

spirit].

22a yásmin vRkSé madhvádaH suparNaá nivishánte súvate

caádhi víshve

a yásmin vRkSé madhvádaH suparNaáH b nivishánte

súvate ca ádhi víshve

 

c tásyéd aahuH píppalaM svaadv ágre tán nón nashad

yáH pitáraM ná véda

c tásya ít aahuH píppalam svaadú ágre d tát ná

út nashat yáH pitáram ná véda

The, tree whereon the fine Birds eat the sweetness,

where they all rest and procreate their offspring,-

Upon its top they say the fig is luscious none gaineth

it who knoweth not the Father.

 

 

 

 

 

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