Re :Why a Commentary? - The Swimming Analogy !

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Stig Lundgren,

 

 

 

It is with great interest that I have been following the discussions with Sri

Balaji on various points. In your recent post you have commented about the “

swimming “ as an analogy to the realisation of the Self. As swimming played a

very vital part in my own self-unfoldment, I would like to make a small point

for your consideration and that of others.

 

 

 

I was nearly 13 years old when the chance came for me to learn swimming. I was

a tall gangling youth and the local swimming club in my hometown had just

allowed Indians to also learn. ( The year was 1952 , about 5 years after

independence. ) When I got there , I was very conscious of my colour and was

amazed by the ease with which all the English kids were swimming. To make things

worse, my mother had warned me of all sorts of consequences if I sank or

something. So I was all worked up , tense and almost ready to give it all up and

beat a hasty retreat. Then a coach turned up. He put me at ease, and gently got

me into the pool. He spoke to me a lot and would keep coming after me , off and

on while I stood in the shallow part of the pool. Somehow he got me to hold on

to him and taught me that I was lighter than water ! I learnt to float. Then he

got me to hold on to the side of the pool and float and kick my legs. Then on

one occasion, which is imprinted in memory, he put his hands

under my body and gently pulled me off the side. I thrashed about a bit and

maybe drank some water. But suddenly I was moving ! That was how it happened. A

few weeks later I could swim across the width and later on I could swim a length

comfortably. Who was swimming ? Me ! The swimmer in me was all the time there.

But I was just not aware of him .On the other hand, I was full of inhibitions

and tension and fear . It was the ego ( or avidya or ajnana ) in me of my true

nature that had prevented me from realizing my true “ swimming “ nature.

Recently I saw my little granddaughter, less than a year old, being put into a

pool by my daughter and she was quite happy. There was no ego.

 

 

 

Self realization is also like that, is it not ? It is our ego, a product of

karmas, genealogy, environment etc that prevents us from realizing our true

nature. The Guru ( coach ) takes us in hand and gently helps us realize our ego,

first of all, and trains us to dissolve it, and puts us on the path of

realization. Again, our effort ( prayatna ) is important. Isnt this manana and

nididhyasana ? Also, Grace plays no small part. I believe Grace played a part in

my swimming also.

 

 

 

Maybe there is apoint in what Sri Balaji says.

 

 

 

I would appreciate your kind comments.

 

 

 

Warm regards and pranams

 

S. Mohan

 

 

Win an evening with the Indian cricket captain: India Promos.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste all,

 

It was so good of Sri Mohan to have accounted his experience of

swimming, which is also just the removal of ignorance. It helps to

clearly account one's own experience. Right?

 

Similar is the removal of ignorance when we learn to balance a

bicycle. The knowledge of this is in me already. No doubt thus

knowledge is and has been eternally in me. But the ignorance in the

form 'I cannot balance' is blinding us. It prevents us to know that I

can balance even when we see so many people riding a bicycle

everyday.

 

This cannot go away until I practice. I may fall, but I must try

again. Similarly while learning to swim, I may sink once but I must

try again. This process of trying and trying again and again is the

practice of removal of ignorance by knowing the nature of this

ignorance. Again in gaining metaphysical knowledge also, we may fall

once or twice. But we must try again and again.

 

Perhaps it would not be wrong to generalize it to all the knowledge.

(except perhaps the purely intellectual one that is obtained only by

reading a book.)

 

Satyameva Jayate Naanrtam

[Guest guest]

Dear Balaji,

 

You are mixing up knowledge of the arts, which is a kind of skill,

with pure knowledge. Intellectual knowledge is more akin to the

knoweldge of the Self, but even that is not correct because the

knowledge of the Self is beyond the intellect; it is that by which

the intellect itself is known.

 

Now, you admit that intellectual knowledge may be got by reading a

book. But what exactly happens when you read a book? Isn't the rise

of intellectual knowledge nothing but the shining of the meaning of

the words that are written in the book? What is this power of words

by which they can let this knoweldge arise within you merely when you

read them or hear them? You must understand what a word is to

appreciate and understand this. A word is not mere sound - it is

sound with meaning. Now, what is meaning? If you understand the

mystery of words, you will realise that the meaning of a word is the

object that the word denotes. This is also the mystical and eternal

relationship that abides between words and objects which the

Grammarians talk of. If you want to understand the power of words (or

logos) then you must first understand the nature of logos. The power

of Vedic words to reveal the truth - by merely hearing them - lies in

this eternal power of words to reveal meanings. But for people in

samsara, the meaning of words lies concealed by an inexplicable

avidya - indeed this is the "fall" from the eternal knowledge. That

is why the meaning doesn't shine in a person when he hears it. And

that is why one must be qualified, by being pure in heart and

intellect, so that one is transparent to the power of words to

reveal.

 

Your emphasis on practice is well taken. I don't think anybody here

denies the efficacy of practice. But technically speaking, spiritual

practice, which is not like the practice of the arts or learning a

technique, is only the preliminary stage of attaining qualification

so that the Truth may shine when pointed out. Again - and you may not

appreciate this - the truth must be pointed out by a Guru; otherwise

knowledge does not arise in the sadhaka. The Guru helps to tame the

ego and the tricks that it plays with the mind. The ego must learn to

submit because it (the ego) is what stands in between this knowledge

which is always there and this self-same knowledge that one strives

to "attain".

 

Best wishes,

Chittaranjan

 

 

advaitin, "Balaji Ramasubramanian"

<balajiramasubramanian> wrote:

> Namaste all,

>

> It was so good of Sri Mohan to have accounted his experience of

> swimming, which is also just the removal of ignorance. It helps to

> clearly account one's own experience. Right?

>

> Similar is the removal of ignorance when we learn to balance a

> bicycle. The knowledge of this is in me already. No doubt thus

> knowledge is and has been eternally in me. But the ignorance in the

> form 'I cannot balance' is blinding us. It prevents us to know that

I

> can balance even when we see so many people riding a bicycle

> everyday.

>

> This cannot go away until I practice. I may fall, but I must try

> again. Similarly while learning to swim, I may sink once but I must

> try again. This process of trying and trying again and again is the

> practice of removal of ignorance by knowing the nature of this

> ignorance. Again in gaining metaphysical knowledge also, we may

fall

> once or twice. But we must try again and again.

>

> Perhaps it would not be wrong to generalize it to all the

knowledge.

> (except perhaps the purely intellectual one that is obtained only

by

> reading a book.)

>

> Satyameva Jayate Naanrtam

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Mohanji,

 

Thank your for your kind words, and for your interest in my

postings. I am sorry for my somewhat delayed answer to your

question, but I have been rather busy the last couple of days.

 

 

You wrote:

********************************************

It is with great interest that I have been following the

discussions with Sri Balaji on various points. In your recent

post you have commented about the " swimming " as an analogy to

the realisation of the Self. As swimming played a very vital part

in my own self-unfoldment, I would like to make a small point for

your consideration and that of others.

I was nearly 13 years old when the chance came for me to learn

swimming. I was a tall gangling youth and the local swimming club

in my hometown had just allowed Indians to also learn. ( The year

was 1952 , about 5 years after independence. ) When I got there

, I was very conscious of my colour and was amazed by the ease

with which all the English kids were swimming. To make things

worse, my mother had warned me of all sorts of consequences if I

sank or something. So I was all worked up , tense and almost

ready to give it all up and beat a hasty retreat. Then a coach

turned up. He put me at ease, and gently got me into the pool. He

spoke to me a lot and would keep coming after me , off and on

while I stood in the shallow part of the pool. Somehow he got me

to hold on to him and taught me that I was lighter than water ! I

learnt to float. Then he got me to hold on to the side of the

pool and float and kick my legs. Then on one occasion, which is

imprinted in memory, he put his hands

under my body and gently pulled me off the side. I thrashed

about a bit and maybe drank some water. But suddenly I was moving

! That was how it happened. A few weeks later I could swim across

the width and later on I could swim a length comfortably. Who was

swimming ? Me ! The swimmer in me was all the time there. But I

was just not aware of him .On the other hand, I was full of

inhibitions and tension and fear . It was the ego ( or avidya or

ajnana ) in me of my true nature that had prevented me from

realizing my true " swimming " nature. Recently I saw my little

granddaughter, less than a year old, being put into a pool by my

daughter and she was quite happy. There was no ego.

***************************************************

 

 

My answer: This is a nice story indeed!

 

I guess your point is that learning how to swim was (for you, at

least) actually about self-unfoldment and realizing your true

nature. Nevertheless, you had to do some practice in order to

learn, and hence Balaji certainly had a point when claiming that

someone can´t realize his or hers true Self by the mere studying

of the shruti. Am I right in this understanding of the point you

are making here?

 

Well, according to Shankara and traditional Advaita, the true

Self is beyond any attributes and qualifications whatsoever. It

is not even possible to describe atman/brahman by any words,

since the words as well as our thinking is limited, and hence

uncapable of "capturing" something that is beyond time, space,

qualities, attributes, feelings, mind etc. etc. The non-dual

Absolute can only be approached in negative terms, and hence it

is described in Shruti as neti-neti (not this, not this). So,

swimming -- which most certainly is something else than the pure

atman/brahman -- is not your true nature. In other words, when

you learned how to swim you actually did not enfold your true

Self. You say that your ego prevented you from swimming, but it

was also by the help of your ego that you actually learned how to

swim! YOU still experienced that YOU where swimming, and hence

the individuality (ego) was still there even after learning how

to swim. So this was not about realizing your inner true and

non-dual Self.

 

The removal of ignorance is not necessarily about removal of

ignorance of the true Self. For instance, if I am ignorant about

the colour of my neighbour´s curtains, well then I can check

through their windows. Then my ignorance about their curtains are

gone, but the ignorance of my true Self is certainly still

there! In the same way, learning how to swim means the end of

ignorance about how to swim, but it doesn´t mean the end of

ignorance about the true Self.

 

And it is because that the skill of swimming is something else

than your true Self, that you actually had to practice in order

to learn it. Swimming is not a part of the true Self, and hence

you can´t learn swimming by merely listening to someone just

talking about it. You can´t find the skill of swimming inside

you, and therefore you have to gain that knowledge from outside,

so to speak.

 

I am sure learning how to swim meant a lot to you and your

self-esteem. It certainly had an impact in the development of

your personality, and it probably made you confident and capable

of facing other difficulties. It was a great and important thing

for you, no doubt about it! But learning how to swim is

nevertheless something different from unfolding and realizing the

true Self. So, it does not give support to the view that you have

to practice in order to realize the absolute brahman, neither

does it contradicts that shruti gives direct knowledge about this

absolute brahman.

 

 

 

You wrote:

**********************************************

Self realization is also like that, is it not ? It is our ego, a

product of karmas, genealogy, environment etc that prevents us

from realizing our true nature. The Guru ( coach ) takes us in

hand and gently helps us realize our ego, first of all, and

trains us to dissolve it, and puts us on the path of realization.

**************************************************

 

 

My answer: Yes, I agree. But -- as I tried to say above --

unfolding your true Self under the guidance of the guru is

different from learning how to swim. The teacher who teach you

how to swim teaches you about something different from your true

Self. The guru makes you realize you true Self, which was there

already from the beginning but clouded by avidya.

 

 

Warmest regards

Stig Lundgren

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Stig,

 

Sri Shankara's statement that Shruthi is direct knowledge, and

therefore your quoting him is perfectly alright. But, tell me how is

Shruthi going to really take a person straight to realization when he

is totally unprepared for that.

 

It is like writing a book on swimming ans saying in the preface that

it is for those who know to float in water, and saying that if you

read it, you can start swimming. Of course, you will because you know

to float now. But then how did you learn to float in the first place.

Can it be assumed that everyone has the right preparation for

realizing the truth in the Shruthi?

 

Satyameva Jayate Naanrtam

[Guest guest]

Stig ji wrote:

 

*************************************

The removal of ignorance is not necessarily about removal of

ignorance of the true Self. For instance, if I am ignorant about

the colour of my neighbour´s curtains, well then I can check

through their windows. Then my ignorance about their curtains are

gone, but the ignorance of my true Self is certainly still

there! In the same way, learning how to swim means the end of

ignorance about how to swim, but it doesn´t mean the end of

ignorance about the true Self.

**************************************

>From your statement, I am reminded of a similar point that Swami

Dayananda makes: A child is born with two fold ignorance: ignorance

of the world and ignorance of the Self. As it grows, it continues to

shed ignorance of the worldly objects and matters. It continues to

stay ignorant of the Self.

 

regards,

--Satyan

[Guest guest]

Namaste:

 

There are 2 means through which the medium of words convey knowledge. One

it is words of Introduction and the second is words of description.

 

1) Words Of Introduction

These are words which give direct knowledge.

 

2) Words Of Description

These are words which give Indirect knowledge.

 

3) The statements in the shruti(atma jnana) are words of Introduction.

 

4) For details about this topic please look into Methods of Knowledge or

another alternative would be to listen to the Kenopanishad Discourse by

Swami Paramarthananda (available in MP3)

 

 

OM Shanti

 

D Suneail

d.suneail

 

 

 

"Balaji

Ramasubramanian"

<balajiramasubram To

anian advaitin

cc

04/08/2004 03:13

AM Subject

Re: Re :Why a

Commentary? - The Swimming Analogy

Please respond to !

advaitin@gro

ups.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Namaste Sri Stig,

 

Sri Shankara's statement that Shruthi is direct knowledge, and

therefore your quoting him is perfectly alright. But, tell me how is

Shruthi going to really take a person straight to realization when he

is totally unprepared for that.

 

It is like writing a book on swimming ans saying in the preface that

it is for those who know to float in water, and saying that if you

read it, you can start swimming. Of course, you will because you know

to float now. But then how did you learn to float in the first place.

Can it be assumed that everyone has the right preparation for

realizing the truth in the Shruthi?

 

Satyameva Jayate Naanrtam

 

 

 

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of

Atman and Brahman.

Advaitin List Archives available at:

http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

 

 

Links

[Guest guest]

Dear ji,

Namaste,

Could you please let me know where I can I get MP3 containing the discourses of

Swami Paramarthananda, i.e Kenopanishad.

Hari Om

Mani

Suneail D <d.suneail wrote:

 

 

 

 

Namaste:

 

There are 2 means through which the medium of words convey knowledge. One

it is words of Introduction and the second is words of description.

 

1) Words Of Introduction

These are words which give direct knowledge.

 

2) Words Of Description

These are words which give Indirect knowledge.

 

3) The statements in the shruti(atma jnana) are words of Introduction.

 

4) For details about this topic please look into Methods of Knowledge or

another alternative would be to listen to the Kenopanishad Discourse by

Swami Paramarthananda (available in MP3)

 

 

OM Shanti

 

 

 

 

Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Mani Ji:

 

These would be the likely place:

 

www.yogamalika.org

www.sastraprakashika.org

 

They sell the audio talks.

 

D Suneail

d.suneail

 

 

 

"R.S.MANI"

<r_s_mani

om> To

advaitin

04/09/2004 03:53 cc

PM

Subject

Re: Re: Re :Why a

Please respond to Commentary? - The Swimming Analogy

advaitin@gro !

ups.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear ji,

Namaste,

Could you please let me know where I can I get MP3 containing the

discourses of Swami Paramarthananda, i.e Kenopanishad.

Hari Om

Mani

Suneail D <d.suneail wrote:

 

 

 

 

Namaste:

 

There are 2 means through which the medium of words convey knowledge. One

it is words of Introduction and the second is words of description.

 

1) Words Of Introduction

These are words which give direct knowledge.

 

2) Words Of Description

These are words which give Indirect knowledge.

 

3) The statements in the shruti(atma jnana) are words of Introduction.

 

4) For details about this topic please look into Methods of Knowledge or

another alternative would be to listen to the Kenopanishad Discourse by

Swami Paramarthananda (available in MP3)

 

 

OM Shanti

 

 

 

 

Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today

 

 

 

 

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of

Atman and Brahman.

Advaitin List Archives available at:

http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

 

 

Links

[Guest guest]

Namaste, Sunealji,

Thank you for the information. Let me try. Hope I can get against rupee payment,

as I am in India.

Warm regards

 

Suneail D <d.suneail wrote:

 

 

 

 

Namaste Mani Ji:

 

These would be the likely place:

 

www.yogamalika.org

www.sastraprakashika.org

 

They sell the audio talks.

 

D Suneail

d.suneail

 

 

 

"R.S.MANI"

<r_s_mani

om> To

advaitin

04/09/2004 03:53 cc

PM

Subject

Re: Re: Re :Why a

Please respond to Commentary? - The Swimming Analogy

advaitin@gro !

ups.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear ji,

Namaste,

Could you please let me know where I can I get MP3 containing the

discourses of Swami Paramarthananda, i.e Kenopanishad.

Hari Om

Mani

Suneail D <d.suneail wrote:

 

 

 

 

Namaste:

 

There are 2 means through which the medium of words convey knowledge. One

it is words of Introduction and the second is words of description.

 

1) Words Of Introduction

These are words which give direct knowledge.

 

2) Words Of Description

These are words which give Indirect knowledge.

 

3) The statements in the shruti(atma jnana) are words of Introduction.

 

4) For details about this topic please look into Methods of Knowledge or

another alternative would be to listen to the Kenopanishad Discourse by

Swami Paramarthananda (available in MP3)

 

 

OM Shanti

 

 

 

 

Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today

 

 

 

 

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of

Atman and Brahman.

Advaitin List Archives available at:

http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman

and Brahman.

Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

 

 

 

 

advaitin/

 

advaitin

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste Shri Mani,

 

Of course you can get - Rs 250 per MP3 disk which contains all the lectures of

Swamiji on Kenopanishad.

 

Address in Chennai:

Sastra Prakasika Trust

A3-No.9,Chandra Vilas Apts.

Dr. Radhakrishnan Salai, 8th Street,

(Before Dominoes Turn left)

Mylapore

Chennai 600 004

Tel : 28470311

Contact - Murugesh.

 

pranams,

Venkat - M

 

"R.S.MANI" <r_s_mani wrote:

Namaste, Sunealji,

Thank you for the information. Let me try. Hope I can get against rupee payment,

as I am in India.

Warm regards

 

 

 

Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download

Messenger Now

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Venkatraman,

Thank you. It is ver kind of you to take the trouble. I shall get the MP3 by

post, as I am situated at Calcutta.

With warm regards and wishing you a Very Happy New year and Vishu

Mani

 

S Venkatraman <svenkat52 wrote:

Namaste Shri Mani,

 

Of course you can get - Rs 250 per MP3 disk which contains all the lectures of

Swamiji on Kenopanishad.

 

Address in Chennai:

Sastra Prakasika Trust

A3-No.9,Chandra Vilas Apts.

Dr. Radhakrishnan Salai, 8th Street,

(Before Dominoes Turn left)

Mylapore

Chennai 600 004

Tel : 28470311

Contact - Murugesh.

 

pranams,

Venkat - M

 

"R.S.MANI" <r_s_mani wrote:

Namaste, Sunealji,

Thank you for the information. Let me try. Hope I can get against rupee payment,

as I am in India.

Warm regards

 

 

 

Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download

Messenger Now

 

 

 

 

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman

and Brahman.

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To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

 

 

 

 

advaitin/

 

advaitin

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tax Center - File online by April 15th

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Stig Lundgren,

 

Thank you for your kind response to my earlier note. I myself was

tied up with some work and when I finally opened the mailbox, I

discovered I was full up with mail and had to sort it all out. Sorry

for the delay in responding. I am, however, extremely keen to

express to you what I have `understood' and seek further

clarification. I do appreciate your courtesy.

 

1. The Concept of Advaita

 

You have stated :

 

"Well, according to Shankara and traditional Advaita, the true

Self is beyond any attributes and qualifications whatsoever. It

is not even possible to describe atman/brahman by any words,

since the words as well as our thinking is limited, and hence

uncapable of "capturing" something that is beyond time, space,

qualities, attributes, feelings, mind etc. etc. The non-dual

Absolute can only be approached in negative terms, and hence it

is described in Shruti as neti-neti (not this, not this)."

 

"The removal of ignorance is not necessarily about removal of

ignorance of the true Self."

 

"The guru makes you realize you true Self, which was there

already from the beginning but clouded by avidya."

 

I fully agree with all the above statements. There can be no doubt

that what you have stated is in accordance with the accepted concept

of Advaita.

 

2. The Irrelevance of Worldly Experiences/Knowledge

 

You have stated:

 

"learning how to swim is

nevertheless something different from unfolding and realizing the

true Self."

 

"And it is because that the skill of swimming is something else

than your true Self, that you actually had to practice in order

to learn it. Swimming is not a part of the true Self, and hence

you can´t learn swimming by merely listening to someone just

talking about it. You can´t find the skill of swimming inside

you, and therefore you have to gain that knowledge from outside,

so to speak."

 

"But learning how to swim is

nevertheless something different from unfolding and realizing the

true Self. So, it does not give support to the view that you have

to practice in order to realize the absolute brahman, neither

does it contradicts that shruti gives direct knowledge about this

absolute brahman."

 

"The teacher who teach you

how to swim teaches you about something different from your true

Self."

 

I fully agree with your above statements which confirm the Advaitic

concept that experiences and knowledge pertaining to the external

world of objects ( like reading, swimming, puja, pilgrimage, etc )

can at best help `purification' of the three internal instruments of

cognition, viz,mind, intellect and ego or'Trikarana Shuddhi' as it

is called. External knowledge does not reveal the Truth of the Self,

although it may help one's preparation for it. For this reason, the

advaitic aspirant is advised to `negate' all worldly

experiences/knowledge. Is my understanding correct?

 

3. The Concept of Practice ( Achara)

 

This brings us to the point regarding `practice' made by Sri Balaji

and my attempt to elaborate on `learning to swim' as an analogy or

example for this point.

 

The English word `practice' is multi-faceted. It can mean `repeated

trying until skill is achieved', ( the German word Ubung… the famous

statement `Ubung macht den Meister')

 

The other meaning is `application of knowledge `. Although I am not

at all knowledgeable in Sanskrit, I believe the word `Achara `

connotes the second meaning of `practice'.

 

Apte's Sanskrit – English Dictionary states :

 

"Achara"-

1.Conduct,behaviour,manner of action or of conducting oneself;

2.A custom, usage, practice;

3.An established usage, customary law;

4.A form, formality .

 

"Acharya"-

1. A teacher or preceptor;

2. A spiritual guide or preceptor, holy teacher;

3. One who propounds a particular doctrine;

4. Learned, venerable.

 

"Acharanam " –

1. Practising, doing,following, observing;

2. Conduct, behaviour;

3. Usage, practice;

4. An institute.

 

Sri Balaji's point, I believe, refers to this connotation

of `Acharanam' , `Achara' and `Acharya' , when he uses the English

word `practice'.

 

When discussing matters of supremely abstract spirituality, in

India, ( maybe all over the world!), it is customary for the Acharya

or teacher to use, what may be construed as `mundane' examples. Sri

Sankara, extensively uses the analogy of

` the ghost and the post', `the rope and the snake', `ornaments and

gold','clay and pots', to clarify concepts.

 

My reference to the `swimming ` analogy was meant in this spirit; I

did not mean to refer to the ` skill development' or ` self-esteem'

aspect , which is clearly related to `ego'.

 

It so happens that I have been recently reviewing my life from a

philosophical standpoint. This has been occasioned by questions from

my children and grandchildren, who are all searching for their own

spiritual paths. So I have found myself sharing my experiences with

them and ( far from , I hope, boosting my ego !), trying to derive

eternal truths from this life and its experiences. It is in the

course of this spiritual auto-biographical adventure that I

discovered the `Advaitin Group".

 

Admittedly, the `swimming experience' gave that young man a lot of

self-confidence. With this came courage to face many other

challenges in life. There was also an upsurge of `ego' in the form

of `self-esteem'.

 

It is only today, in the last phase of this life, that these

experiences seem to carry a deeper meaning.

 

5. The Concept of Self

 

May I share something intimate with you and all ?

 

I find that at many instances of this life, which was overall quite

mundane and materialistic, there have been ` revelations' of

something which I suspect now is the `Self ` !

 

The ` swimming experience' was one of the earliest instances in this

life which gave me a hint of the existence of two Mohans or `Me's'!

Over a period of the subsequent 50 odd years, I came to realize that

there was , what I called an External-Me ( E-Me) and an Internal-Me

(I-Me).

 

It was only about a decade ago that, through the instrumentality of

a Realised Soul, my Guruji Sri Ajit Dalvi of Bombay ( now called

Mumbai) in Western India, I had a direct experience of the Innermost

Self in me .

 

Thereafter, I became more and more aware of the E-Me ( which I

term `ego') who strutted about in the world, pretending to be a

great chap . For almost a decade my Sadhana has been oriented to

dissolving this `ego'. It still rears its head from time to time, in

the form of distress, despair, anger, etc. but the only progress is

that `I' seem to be aware of `It' !

 

In this context, Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharishi's life, teachings and

writings, have been greatly helpful. I am struggling to glean the

advice of Sri Sankara and `apply' it !

 

In the Gita Bhashya, He states that `Jnana' occurs in an instant !

 

I have greatly enjoyed reading your posts. I am touched that such

universal truths are being experienced and discussed so far north as

Sweden. That country evokes peculiar memories in me .

 

I was once , maybe even now, a great admirer of Napoleon Bonaparte!

And what struck me was how his ablest lieutenant Bernadotte, finally

left him, and accepted the throne of Sweden! I gather there are

still some Bernadottes in Sweden !

 

I apologise for the undue length of this post . I indeed eagerly

look forward to hearing from you and others.

 

With Warm Regards and Pranams

S. Mohan

 

 

advaitin, "Stig Lundgren" <slu@b...> wrote:

> Dear Sri Mohanji,

>

> Thank your for your kind words, and for your interest in my

> postings. I am sorry for my somewhat delayed answer to your

> question, but I have been rather busy the last couple of days.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Stigji and Mohanji,

 

Mohanji writes:

> The other meaning is `application of knowledge `. Although I am not

> at all knowledgeable in Sanskrit, I believe the word `Achara `

> connotes the second meaning of `practice'.

>

 

Thanks for that. It shows my inability to communcate well. You are

right, practice here does mean 'Achara'. But I thought that since

many would be brahmins in this group and the word AchAra (which

appears so close to Achara) also means clean practice in their ligua,

I did not want to use that word. However, there is possibly no better

word than AchAra for it. 'Practice' can just confuse understanding,

since it makes people think of it in the other meaning. In fact its

only now that I understand that all along people have been thinking

that I am telling them to perform karamas.

 

The word AchAra, which comes from Achara, has changed in meaning to a

very large extent. Such a practice just results in the appraisal of

the ego, but criticism of it must not be contrued to mean that

unclean living is being advocated.

 

The word Achara is broken as A + chara. A - means to do well [with

understanding] (not to follow. That would be anusara, which is

mundane) and chara - means to walk or practice etc.

 

Hence Achara means 'right practice'. Which is what I used to say, not

just practice.

 

Once again, thanks for that explanation.

 

-Balaji

[Guest guest]

Balaji Ramasubramanian wrote:

> The word AchAra, which comes from Achara, has changed in meaning

to a

> very large extent. Such a practice just results in the appraisal

of

> the ego, but criticism of it must not be contrued to mean that

> unclean living is being advocated.

 

Dear Sri Balaji,

I am sorry I am not able to understand the above statement of

yours.. I request clarification, lest it leads to unnecessary mis-

understanding and arguments.

Kindly clarify

Warm regards and Pranams

S. Mohan