Nairji/ pUrNamadah pUrNamidam revisted (Repost: Turya and Turyatitta)

[Guest guest]

Dear Nairji:

 

You are right. An experience, like Samadhi, that is conditioned by time is not

the aim. Whatever has a beginning has an ending.

 

So there is no disagreement on that point.

 

Sri Ramana has made that clear as well in distinguishing between Kevala

Nirvikalpa and Sahaj Samadhi. Although Kevala Nirvikalpa (limited in time

awareness of the Self) and Sahaj (unbroken awareness of the Self) are

distinguished, the common element is "awareness of the Self". This awareness of

the Self has overwhelming power and seeps through other states.

 

Sri Ramakrishna used to say that sometimes a thorn is removed by using another

thorn.

 

Each to their own understanding.

 

Love to all

Harsha

 

 

 

 

 

 

> "Madathil Rajendran Nair" <madathilnair

> 2004/04/10 Sat AM 12:59:38 EDT

> advaitin

> Re: pUrNamadah pUrNamidam revisted (Repost: Turya and

Turyatitta)

 

Namaste Harshaji.

 

Thanks for the lucid explanation with a beautiful analogy. I wish you had

posted your message under pUrNamadah to ensure continuity of that thread. I am

therefore taking the liberty to quote it full under the above revised title.

 

My following understanding may perhaps explain what Sw. Dayanandaji wanted to

convey in his statement quoted by me in the pUrNamadah lead post:

 

Any enjoyed state lasts in time (because we return) and is, therefore, an

experience. All experiences are limited.

Anything limited is a wanting thing. PUrNa is without wants.

>From your and Adiji's explanations, I believe, sahaja samadhi is Atmanandaji's

(Ref: Anandaji's posts on Shri Atmanandaji) sleeping consciously where the three

states of wakefulness, dreaming and deep sleep are virtually non-existent and

where the sAdhaka is in total peace of pUrnatwa. It is, therefore, in total

contrast with

nirvikalpa, which comes and goes.

 

Hope this answers Balaji too.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

___________________

 

advaitin, wrote:

> Dear Friends:

>

> Language has its limitations. All questions about the nature of

Reality presume a separation between awareness and the three states.

>

> Sri Ramana told Paul Brunton that what is practice of the Sadhaka

is the natural state of the Siddha.

>

> Awareness is what gives all the mental states life and energy. The

Advaitic method of neti, neti, neti is meant to make clear that we

are not the body, mind, and the states that the mind experiences

during waking, dreaming, sleeping but the pure awareness underlying

it all.

>

> In Nirvikalpa Samadhi, there is only awareness aware of It Self and

the mind is absent. Therefore, there are no dream, waking, or deep

sleep states. Once the Self is recognized in its full purity in

Nirvikalpa Samadhi, It recognizes It Self in the presence of the

varying states of the mind as well and the latent tendencies become

weaker.

>

> Take the analogy of a lake during winter which has frozen. The sun

shines and slowly the ice starts melting.

>

> First holes are produced in ice, here and there, and the water

asserts itself through those holes. These can be compared to states

of clear self awareness or even Nirvikalpa Samadhis. The ice

eventually becomes weaker and weaker and more and more holes are to

be seen everywhere.

>

> Finally, suddenly, one day the ice crashes and we see that the

water dominates, although chunks of ice are floating. That is Sahaj

Samadhi.

>

> Again, this is just an analogy, and like all analogies has many

limitations.

>

> The nature of water is always the same, although it appears to

assume many forms. Self is always the same, although it appears by

its own power to assume many forms and enjoy many experiences.

>

> Sri Ramana has said that satsang (association with the truth or

wise people who know the meaning of scriptures or sages) is the best

way to Self-Recognition. They are like the Sun who shine on us giving

us warmth and slowly melting the latent tendencies until one day the

Self spontaneously asserts It Self as It Self as awareness which we

are even now.

>

> It is Recognition. So nothing new is added or subtracted. We simply

See that We Are. This is why we find sayings like, "I am that I

am.I am that what I have always been."

>

> The best method is to be natural, to be oneself, to be in surrender

to the Lord of the Heart.

>

> Food, sex, sleep, breathing, and the underlying root tendency of

self-preservation are natural to most beings. All meditation and yoga

methods are based on some variation of controlling food, sex, sleep,

the breath, and to understand and overcome the desire for self-

preservation.

>

> Those methods have value and give insights into the nature of the

mind and body.

>

> The other way is to simply be natural, to be yourself, while in

surrender to Lord of the Heart who manifests as the Inner Being,

whose nature is awareness, and to see one's identity with the Lord,

who turns out to be none other than our own Self. That is the supreme

beauty. The one whom we adore is indeed none other than Sat-Chit-

Ananda manifesting in the Heart as the Self. One's Own Self.

>

> Love to all

> Harsh

>

>

>

>

> "Love itself is the actual form of God."

>

> Ramana Maharshi