re:re:cause of decline-Gandhiji

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "gautam madan" <pranavomkaar@r...>

wrote:

> namaskaar benji,

> as you said--

> You are certainly right that Hinduism in the Gita avoids pacifism

for those whose duty it is to defend the country. This point

sometimes gets lost on those who stress Gandhi's love of peaceful

methods of conflict resolution (when possible).

> i think every hindu grantha avoids pacifism otherwise indian

society would not have been divided into four categories, kshatriyas

being the warriors meant for protecting others. pacifism would have

avoided such categorisation.look, Krishna also said the same--

> Further, having regard to thy own duty, thou shouldst not waver,

for there is nothing higher for a Kshatriya than a righteous war.

> you also said--

> However, I must disagree with you slightly in one respect. I do

> believe that at the ultimate level, God's will controls all events.

> However, this does not deny free-will at the phenomenal level

> So if pressed, I would say that there is no free-will, but we

should behave as though there is and do the right thing.

> i totally agree with you ben ji that there is no free will. all in

God's hands.His will being the supreme. if anything good happens, it

is His will & if anything bad it's His will too. muslim invasion was

also God's will. their cruelity was also God's will. but i just said

that we should not say this to anyone who can not understand(i think

we should be careful while saying this outside advaita list, lolz).

people are ought to misunderstand this.

> instead, we should say though it was God's will that we are under

attack we perform our duties for our motherland is also God's will.

> so let's not run away from it.

> or, if one can understand like arjuna, he should be told as Krishna

told him--

>

> I am(God is) the mighty world-destroying Time, now engaged in

destroying the worlds. Even without thee, none of the warriors

arrayed in the hostile armies shall live.

> Therefore, stand up and obtain fame. Conquer the enemies and enjoy

the unrivalled kingdom. Verily, they have already been slain by Me;

be thou a mere instrument, O Arjuna

> Drona, Bhishma, Jayadratha, Karna and all the other courageous

warriorsâ€"these have already been slain by Me; do thou kill; be not

distressed with fear; fight and thou shalt conquer thy enemies in

battle.

> who can kill whom? as Krishna says to arjuna you are just the

instrment, all of them already been killed by me.He also said to him

before--

> He who takes the Self to be the slayer and he who thinks He is

slain, neither of them knows; He slays not nor is He slain.

> for a jnani there is no violence even if he slays anyone because he

knows he can not kill anyone, he just being an instrument working

according to God's will. just like, Krishna being always surrounded

by the gopis is still a brahmachari, and sage Durvaasa having his

meals of milk & ghee still eats grass(please read

Gopalatapniyopnishad,http://celextel.org/ebooks/upanishads/gopala_tapa

niya_upanishad.htm) in the same way, jnani even on being a slayer

never slays.

> you said--

> This point sometimes gets lost on those who stress Gandhi's love of

peaceful methods of conflict resolution (when possible).

> there had been much controversy on Mahatma Gandhi on being right or

wrong.i would like to say something on this in spiritual respect

which i listened from the famous saint Morari Bapu. but for this we

will have to come to a shloka from yoga sutras of Patanjali which

says--

> when one is firm in non-violence hostility ceases in his presence.

> sage valmiki was one, firm in non violence. it is said that deer &

lions grazing grass together in His tapovana(forest around Him). same

is said for Chaitanya Mahaprabhu too.

> Morari Bapu has said that Mahatma Gandhi was not firm in non

violence. He said that Gandhiji was in a city(i don't remember which)

& even in his presence hindu-muslim riots started there & then

Gandhiji himself accepted that He lacked somewhere in the practice of

non-violence, He was not firm in non-violence.

> you said--

> Really, the ahimsa of Buddhism and Jainism is appropriate for monks

> only. If Buddhism went wrong, it was in failing to distinguish

> between the duties of monks and priests, on the one hand, and

> citizens on the other.

> i truly agree with you in this respect too

>

with regards,

>

gautam.

 

Many Pranams to all advaitins.

Learned historians in the group can correct me. At the time of

partition, Lord Mountbatten anticipated two parts of the country to

erupt in violence of gargantuan proportions - Punjab and Bengal.

To Punjab he despatched battalions and battalions of army personnel

and to East Bengal he despatched just Mahatma Gandhi. In the former,

tens of thousands of lives were last. In Bengal, when Gandhiji went

on a fast unto death, we had even very hardened criminals come and

surrender the weapons. This is a limited input from my reading (long

ago) of Freedom at Midnight. Even the hardcore Rajas of Gen. Smuts

was consumed in Mahatma's Sattva.

It'd be a pity if we were to join the ranks of half-thinking people

and write down Gandhiji's achievements which to my mind would be at

the level of any saint we know. His field was Karma Yoga unlike the

saints we normally discuss (whose emphasis is more on Bhakti/Jnana).

Many thousand namaskarams to all advaitins

sridhar