Sankara Jayanth - Politics and Ethics

[Guest guest]

Namaste Adiji,

 

I know the moderators are going to scold us for getting off topic,

but I can't resist saying a few things.

 

You said:

 

And most forceful of all is Sri Krishna's statement:

 

"The devotees of the Lord are not Shudras; Shudras are they who have

no faith in the Lord whichever be their caste. A wise man should not

slight even an outcaste if he is devoted to the Lord; he who looks

down on him will fall into hell." - Mahabharata

 

 

I must say, Adiji, you have a great talent for coming up with

interesting and relevant quotes. I know you don't like compliments.

:-) But I hadn't heard this one, and I think it takes a bit more

than a quick Google search.

 

Two comments about so-called caste. This may sound like politics,

but I will end with a spiritual message, so hopefully I will be

forgiven.

 

(1) Are we talking about true discrimination or about redistribution

of wealth? In a country like India, there are many poor people.

Even if everyone ceased to talk or think at all about caste, the

poverty would not suddenly go away. But troublemakers like the

Communists like to exploit poverty by adding the ego-dimension and

getting the poor to feel resentful about alleged inferior social

status. This resentment does no good for the poor; it merely helps

certain politicians come to power. Only education and economic

development, not resentment, will help the poor. For economic

development, the middle class needs to be rewarded for its efforts,

especially the long years of education and financial sacrifice, and

this is contrary to a Communist redistribution of wealth.

 

(2) People have the right to associate with whom they wish. Even

more so for marriage. And people tend to associate with others of

approximately their own education level and background, and with

similar values, tastes, etc. Sometimes certain groups with higher

ethical standards get ahead in society because of those ethical

standards. If parents get their children to work hard and study

hard, and if the parents save for their children's education, instead

of spending the money on alcohol, cars, boats and other toys, then

those children are likelier to get ahead. This has happened to many

ethically-minded social groups, not just Brahmins. It has happened

to Jains and to certain Protestant groups in America, at least in the

past. There used to be something in America called the 'Protestant

work ethic', and this did help to make those groups more successful

in society. Also, in Far Asia, discipline and ethical values have

born fruit with economic rewards.

 

This often gets lost on those who only care about social inequality

and the redistribution of wealth. It is so easy to fan the flames of

resentment, rather than inculcating discipline and sacrifice in

people. Nowadays, popular culture seems to have a disdain for

ethics, personal responsibility, sacrifice and so forth. Of course,

it is also easy to give sermons on this, but I do think that it is

easy and dangerous to fan the flames of resentment.

 

That is the spiritual part of my message, namely that what often

seems like an egalitarian political movement is secretly (or not so

secretly) based on ego manipulation, in particular the exploitation

of resentment. This never helps the society or the economy or the

poor people. It merely produces bad feelings, a hardening of

attitudes, political heat and stupidity, and a sick country.

 

At the same time, I am not against such 'liberal' remedies as

reasonable government scholarships to hard-working students, provided

there is no discrimination in handing out these scholarships other

than pure merit and economic need. A poor Brahmin trying to get into

college or trying to get a job should be treated just the same. I

hear this is often not the case in India, because it is so tempting

for politicians to play the resentment card. The exploitation of

ugly feelings can only make society sick.

 

That is why I am opposed to Communism, which is still apparently a

potent force in India. It always seems to be based on crude

materialistic values and to be hostile to religion, and it gets power

by exploiting ugly and divisive ego-based emotions. Certain kinds of

missionaries and mullahs also exploit social resentment, though one

cannot accuse them of being irreligious. (Unspiritual maybe!)

 

There may have been ugly caste excesses in the past, and perhaps even

today, but we must not let this blind us to the ruthless mind games

played by those carrying the banner of social justice. And some of

the left-wing hostility to religion may arise because spiritually

oriented social groups often do succeed, thanks in part to the

ethical values that arise from their spirituality. (Since when does

resentment make a child do its homework?) This may not be the whole

story, but it is an important part of it, which is not currently a

fashionable topic of discussion in politically correct left-wing

academic and media circles.

 

Hari Om!

Benjamin

[Guest guest]

Hi Adiji,

 

So you were an economics major! I am impressed. I love

politics and related matters, which sometimes spills out on this

list. After all, we can't spend ALL our time discussing how things

don't exist, can we? :-) But we really shouldn't discuss that here,

so I'll only make a few brief comments to what you said.

 

Yes, people can't be spiritual on an empty stomach, but how

do we get a prosperous economy that fills people's stomachs? That is

the question. It is a huge question, but the only point I wanted to

make here is that manipulating people with class resentment isn't the

answer. And I think that much of the 'caste' rhetoric in India today

has more to do with politics and resentment than reality. As many

here have said, Brahmins are often poor and they do not dominate

Indian society, except as a consequence of doing well in school. And

I have had Brahmins tell me off line that it is much harder for them

to get into the good schools, because of 'reverse discrimination'.

That IS unfair!

 

It is similar to the prejudice against Jews, which is quite

common in the world even today. Success breeds resentment. This is

mostly politics of course, but the spiritual angle I was trying to

express is that the class resentments produced by ego manipulation

are an underlying source of the problem, which just make everything

worse. It is not all economics. There is a spiritual dimension.

Another spiritual dimension is that ethics, hard work and

conservative behavior do lead to worldly success, as I said before,

which unfortunately can breed more resentment.

 

I do like your idea of a 'fair distribution' of wealth rather

than an 'equal distribution'. But even this is easier said than

done. Who is willing to give away half his or her income? Everybody

wants to take care of their family first. You cannot change this

human behavior without a dictatorship. Now we could get into

questions of taxation, but that is way off topic. I will say that I

think that more than 50% is too much for anybody, even the rich.

People should get to keep at least half of what they earn through

honest effort and the taking of risk. Otherwise, people won't take

risks, businesses won't grow, and the economy won't get prosperous.

The track record of nations is clear. India seems to be growing up

politically, and I do hope that that continues. (To tell the truth,

I wouldn't be surprised if China and India dominate the world by the

end of the century and the USA is a shadow of its former self. Let

us hope India and China do not start fighting.)

 

In summary, ego-based behavior on the part of both rich and

poor ruins society. Everyone knows about the arrogance and greed of

many rich people. But few people talk about the harmful effects of

resentment, reverse discrimination, ignorance, bad habits, and so

forth, which often afflict the poor. A poor person is not innocent

and without personal responsibility, just because he is poor. That

is the poisonous message of the left. As for me, I am neither right

nor left, because I realize that the problems are too serious for

simplistic slogans that only generate heat and not light.

 

All social problems are made so much worse by the element of ego in

politics. That is what I was trying to say. That is a spiritual

statement and not too out of place on this list, in my opinion. But

we had better stop.

 

Oh, by the way, controlling population is also crucial. Let us not

discuss how that is to be done...

 

Hari Om!

Benjamin

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

I really shouldn't indulge in excursions into politics. But

I would like to make one other point which I think is definitely

spiritual and related to this list.

 

It is that I have trouble separating my sadhana from my

worries about the political situation in the world. One minute I

read some Advaita on the computer and feel some peace. Another

minute I read about political conflict everywhere and feel so

distressed. It is all there at the click of a mouse, and so it all

gets mixed up in my brain.

 

The question of when to use love and when to use force is so

difficult. Pure pacifism is hopelessly naive, and the Gita warns us

against it. On the other hand, resisting violence with violence

often perpetuates the violence in an interminable cycle. It is a

hopeless dilemma.

 

Sometimes I feel the solution is to withdraw into calm

meditation and see the world as unreal. Other times I feel this is

deeply irresponsible, and that the world will only deteriorate if

intelligent and responsible people don't think about it and try to

understand what is happening and what to do about it.

 

There are so many problems in the world, and it seems to be

getting worse. Particularly distressing is that in many parts of the

world children are being raised as warriors from a young age. We see

this from Palestine to Sri Lanka to Africa. Is not this utter rape

of innocence something new and disturbing in the world? Is the world

about to derail? Is the end near? Do we need another avatar?

 

So you see ... I got back to a topic appropriate for this list! :-)

 

Hari Om!

Benjamin

[Guest guest]

advaitin, Benjamin <orion777ben> wrote:

>

Is the world

> about to derail? Is the end near? Do we need another avatar?

>

> So you see ... I got back to a topic appropriate for this

list! :-)

>

 

Namaste,

 

Matthew 8,25. 'And he saith unto them, why are ye fearful, O ye of

little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and

there was a great calm.'

 

Saint Ekanath (circa 1500 A.D.) wrote a famous Marathi hymn (Hari

Patha):

 

AvaDine bhAve harI nAma ghesI | tujhI chintA tyAsI sarva Ahe ||

nako kheda karU koNatyA goShTIchA | patI lakshumIchA jANatAhe ||

sakaLa jagAchA kariTo sAmbhALa | tuja mokalIla aise nAhI ||

jaisI sthitI Ahe taishAparI rAhe | kautuka tU pAhe sanchitAche ||

ekA-janArdanI bhoga prArabdhAchA | harIkRRipe tyAchA nAsha Ahe ||

 

With joy and feeling utter Hari's name; He bears all your worries.

Grieve over nothing; He knows what has to be done.

He rules this whole universe; saving you is not beyond Him.

Live as you find yourself; watch admiringly the play of destiny.

Ekanath, disciple of Janardana avers, His Grace can even wipe out pre-

ordained suffering.

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sunderji,

>His Grace can even wipe out pre-ordained suffering

 

A very powerful statement if true. Both emotionally and

philosophically. Much food for thought.

 

I will assume that faith can make it true. But is that faith pre-ordained? :-)

 

Anyhow, thanks for cheering me up. I think I could make much more

spiritual progress if I relinquished my addiction to BBC Online!

It's as bad as drugs. So disturbing to the mind! Quite the opposite

of the calm faith you advocate ... the 'peace that passes all

understanding'.

 

I will try to stay away from politics. This talk about caste comes

perilously close, by its very nature...

 

Hari Om!

Benjamin

[Guest guest]

advaitin, Benjamin <orion777ben> wrote:

>

> Namaste Sunderji,

>

> >His Grace can even wipe out pre-ordained suffering

>

> A very powerful statement if true. Both emotionally and

> philosophically. Much food for thought.

>

> I will assume that faith can make it true. But is that faith pre-

ordained? :-)

>

> Anyhow, thanks for cheering me up. I think I could make much more

> spiritual progress if I relinquished my addiction to BBC Online!

> It's as bad as drugs. So disturbing to the mind! Quite the

opposite

> of the calm faith you advocate ... the 'peace that passes all

> understanding'.

>

> I will try to stay away from politics. This talk about caste comes

> perilously close, by its very nature...

 

Namaste Benji,

 

Please rest assured that Ekanath's hymn is far more true than

anything you will ever see or hear on BBC!

 

Purna means perfect also - if this world is perfect, then it

must be the defects in our vision that makes it look imperfect, ugly,

etc. If we can enjoy Shakespeare's tragedies, why are we averse to

the tragedies enacted by the Lord Himself?

 

Sri Ramakrishna forbade anyone to bring newspapers to where

he met with devotees! That is the meaning of 'satsang'- company of

the truthful alone!

 

Regarding 'pre-ordained' faith, Saint Jnaneshvara (circa 1290 AD)

said:

 

"bahutA sukRRtAchi joDI | mhaNonI viTThalI AvaDI || "

 

"Cumulation of many good deeds ; hence the love for God .

 

Saint Tukaram (circa 1600 AD) sang:

 

" hechi thora bhakti AvaDate devA | saMkalpAvI mAyA saMsArAchI || "

 

God likes that devotion best, when this universe is seen as His

Power.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder