Sankara Jayanth - karma kanda versus jnana kanda !!!

[Guest guest]

Thank you sunderji! i luved the Gita quotations specially the last

one, my all time favorite one! but i would very kindly request

English translation along with the samskritam verses for the benefit

of all members ...

 

(tadviddhi prantpoatenna ... )

 

but i still have a question, ...

 

in verse 271 odf Viveka Chudamani ( attributed to Shri Shankara) , it

reads thus ...

 

laekvasnya jNtae> zasÇvasnyaip c ,

dehvasnya }an< ywavÚEv jayte . 271 .

 

True knowledge cannot come as long as there is the desire to follow

the world,the rituals of the scriptures or the demands of the body.

 

*rituals* .... ???????????

 

this is my take on this !

 

To do all the rituals like yagnas, homams etc we need "money" don't

we? we are not simply talking about tri-kaala sandhyavadanam ! i am

talking about "pitru" homams , "putrakameshti yagnas" etc... and

pujas, homams and the whole nine yards ...

 

 

by definition, how can "poor" people afford such rituals ? and you

and i know who these 'poor' people in india are!! The "harijans" and

other scheduled castes...

 

 

Secondly, some of us not just 'brahmins' sitting in the temple and

performing pujas - we are all into 'proffessional life" and some of

us live in places (all over the world) where such facilities do not

exist - even a so called brahmin priest and other conveniences ...

 

thirdly, there are so many vedic injunctions to be followed ... women

cannot chant the vedas, cannot recite the gayathri mantras , needs

initiation and guru etc...

 

Gosh! so many ifs and buts, so many 'dos' and 'don'ts' and then again

it is touch climb to the top via the ladder of 'rituals'''

 

i do aagree with sunderji on one point however that a certain amount

of preperation is necessary and so we do need to follow some basic

steps! by the same token, i am firmly covinced and i am sure my

beloved shankara is with me all the way on this " the atma has no

caste" .... and i will not go into the "manickya panchakam " here

again!!!

 

if rituals are so important, why follow the path of Advaitha. which

is so difficult ? why not foloow Tantra , which is only Rituals ,

rituals , nothing but rituals! instant enlightenment!

 

folks, fron karmakanda we have come to jnana kanda ? ido we want to

regress back!!!

 

Jaya jaya shankara !

Hara hara shankara !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

vast universe!

>

> Rituals are a necessary step in 'sadhana', which is

dispensed

> with as the Wisdom of the Spirit engulfs one's whole being.

>

> Gita:

>

> aarurukShormuneryogaM karma kaaraNamuchyate .

> yogaaruuDhasya tasyaiva shamaH kaaraNamuchyate .. 6\-3..

>

> yasya sarve samaarambhaaH kaamasaN^kalpavarjitaaH .

> GYaanaagnidagdhakarmaaNa.n tamaahuH paNDitaM budhaaH .. 4\-19..

>

> tasmaachchhaastraM pramaaNaM te kaaryaakaaryavyavasthitau .

> GYaatvaa shaastravidhaanokta.n karma kartumihaarhasi .. 16\-24..

>

> tadviddhi praNipaatena pariprashnena sevayaa .

> upadekShyanti te GYaanaM GYaaninastattvadarshinaH .. 4\-34..

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunder

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "adi_shakthi16"

<adi_shakthi16> wrote:

> Thank you sunderji! i luved the Gita quotations specially the

last

> one, my all time favorite one! but i would very kindly request

> English translation along with the samskritam verses for the

benefit

> of all members ...

>

> (tadviddhi prantpoatenna ... )

>

> but i still have a question, ...

>

> in verse 271 odf Viveka Chudamani ( attributed to Shri Shankara) ,

it

> reads thus ...

>

> laekvasnya jNtae> zasÇvasnyaip c ,

> dehvasnya }an< ywavÚEv jayte . 271 .

>

> True knowledge cannot come as long as there is the desire to

follow

> the world,the rituals of the scriptures or the demands of the

body.

>

> *rituals* .... ???????????

>

> this is my take on this !

>

> To do all the rituals like yagnas, homams etc we need "money"

don't

> we? we are not simply talking about tri-kaala sandhyavadanam ! i

am

> talking about "pitru" homams , "putrakameshti yagnas" etc... and

> pujas, homams and the whole nine yards ...

>

>

> by definition, how can "poor" people afford such rituals ? and

you

> and i know who these 'poor' people in india are!! The "harijans"

and

> other scheduled castes...

>

>

> Secondly, some of us not just 'brahmins' sitting in the temple and

> performing pujas - we are all into 'proffessional life" and some

of

> us live in places (all over the world) where such facilities do

not

> exist - even a so called brahmin priest and other conveniences ...

>

> thirdly, there are so many vedic injunctions to be followed ...

women

> cannot chant the vedas, cannot recite the gayathri mantras , needs

> initiation and guru etc...

>

> Gosh! so many ifs and buts, so many 'dos' and 'don'ts' and then

again

> it is touch climb to the top via the ladder of 'rituals'''

>

> i do aagree with sunderji on one point however that a certain

amount

> of preperation is necessary and so we do need to follow some basic

> steps! by the same token, i am firmly covinced and i am sure my

> beloved shankara is with me all the way on this " the atma has no

> caste" .... and i will not go into the "manickya panchakam " here

> again!!!

>

> if rituals are so important, why follow the path of Advaitha.

which

> is so difficult ? why not foloow Tantra , which is only Rituals ,

> rituals , nothing but rituals! instant enlightenment!

>

> folks, fron karmakanda we have come to jnana kanda ? ido we want

to

> regress back!!!

>

> Jaya jaya shankara !

> Hara hara shankara !

>

 

Namaste Adiji,

 

I may be completely wrong here, but this is my understanding of the

traditional position. Those who are eligible to learn the shruti are

enjoined to follow the prescribed karma. Please note that shruti

includes karma kanda and jnana kanda. Now, karma need not mean all

those yajnas requiring great expense. I believe these fall under

kamya karma. Performance of nitya karma does not require wealth. To

study jnana kanda, there are again qualifications - sadhana

cathushtayam viz. viveka, vairagya, shamaadi shatka sampatti and

mumukshutvam.

 

What about those that are not considered eligible for the study of

vedas (including upanishads)? Are they ineligible to atma vidya?

Certainly not according to our traditions. They need only study the

itihasas and puranas which contain the same truth expounded in the

shruti. For example we say, 'Bharatah pancamo vedah'. Also, one of

the dhyana shlokas for the Ramayana states:

 

veda vedye pare pumsi jaate dasharathaatmaje|

vedah praachedasaasaasid sakshaat raamaayaNaatmana||

 

Thus I see that those who are supposed to be dvijas are the ones

that need to study the vedas, perform the prescribed karmas. This is

I guess required for the benefit of the society and only by such

performance can karma be non-binding and lead to one becoming

eligilbe for atma vicara. This is the reason why Sankara

exhorts, 'vedo nityamadhIyatAm..'.

 

Again, this is my understanding and I would request others to

correct if necessary.

 

Harih Om!

Neelakantan

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16>

wrote:

 

but i would very kindly request

English translation along with the samskritam verses for the benefit

of all members ...

 

************------<<<<<<

Namaste Adiji,

 

There are some special reasons I like to withhold

the translations!

 

1. I would like the readers to keep the Gita handy near the computer

and refer to it as often as they can (and should)!

 

2. Sw. Gambhirananda and Sw. Chinmayananda translations are in the

Files section and should be bookmarked for quick reference!

 

3. Every effort to study Gita is a 'jnana-yajna' and should be done

at every opportunity.

 

Besides everyone has one's own favorite translation, and can

give those versions to be posted.

*************--------->>>

 

 

 

but i still have a question, ...

 

in verse 271 odf Viveka Chudamani ( attributed to Shri Shankara) , it

reads thus ...

 

laekvasnya jNtae> zasÇvasnyaip c ,

dehvasnya }an< ywavÚEv jayte . 271 .

 

True knowledge cannot come as long as there is the desire to follow

the world,the rituals of the scriptures or the demands of the body.

 

*rituals* .... ???????????

 

this is my take on this !

 

************-------<<<<<<<<<<<

 

Your 'take' on this seems to me to be quite misdirected!

Shankara in fact is saying rituals are a hindrance to Self-knowledge!

 

Anyway, even after the best performed yajnas, the 'aparAdha-

kShamA' (forgiveness for acts of commission and omission) are still

chanted, and Shankara himself has composed several of these.

 

Krishna himself has extolled the path that takes one

to the Spiritual acme:

 

purushhaH sa paraH paartha bhaktyaa labhyastvananyayaa .

yasyaantaHsthaani bhuutaani yena sarvamidaM tatam.h .. 8\-22..

 

bhaktyaa tvananyayaa shakya ahameva.nvidho.arjuna .

GYaatuM drashhTu.n cha tattvena praveshhTu.n cha parantapa .. 11\-54..

 

bhaktyaa maamabhijaanaati yaavaanyashchaasmi tattvataH .

tato maaM tattvato GYaatvaa vishate tadanantaram.h .. 18\-55..

 

************----------->>>>>>>>>>>

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder