Purnamadah Purnamidam ....revisited (April4)-My Questions Illegitimate.

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Nairji, and others

 

Namaste.

 

Sri Nairji has done an excellent job in clarifying the whole position. Thank you

very much.

 

Yes, sitting in a running train, I cannot compalin why the trees on both the

side should run. That is how the Adyasa works and it is naisargikaha. Once I

know it is not the trees that run but the train in which I am sitting myself

runs, I enjoy the trees running. To see that the train runs and it is not the

trees that run, I have to come out of the train. While sitting in the train, I

can only know that the running of the trees is just an appearance. However, I

can verify this once I get down from the train. However, that verification is

not necessary, as I, though sit inside the running train, I “know” it is the

train that runs. So, I should enjoy seeing the running trees when I continue my

travel in the train.

 

Sri Rajkumar Nairji and Sri Neelakantanji also clarified the position very well.

 

My questions were only for reinforcing my understanding of the subject.

 

I will continue my train journey now with much more enjoyment. Oh Mayaji, Let

the fun continue and let me continue to enjoy the fun.

 

Thank you blessed Advaitins

 

Warm Regards & Hari Om

 

 

 

 

Madathil Rajendran Nair <madathilnair wrote:Namaste Maniji.

 

This is my understanding, which I believe I had mentioned here before:

 

1. The rope-snake analogy belongs to the empirical.

2. It is in the empirical that the rope is identified as rope

and its misapprehension as snake removed.

3. At the end, rope remains an object separate from the subject

who had the misapprehension.

4. All analogies belong to the empirical and, therefore, have

limitations. They never can completely elucidate the Absolute.

5. They shouldn't therefore be stretched too far to ask

questions about the Absolute which is not available for our

objectification like the rope.

6. Besides, while the rope is an object, the Absolute is the

questioner himself.

7. Thus, while the analogy establishes the true identity of an

object, advaita reveals the true identity of the seeker himself. It

is the seeker's knowing himself and that is not an ordinary knowing

involving a subject and object.

8. It is to the questioner himself that the misapprehension

occurs, i.e. to the limited entity who isolates himself from the rest

of the world and suffers from seeing it as alien to himself.

9. Self-realization is the de-working of that alienation whereby

the questioner *becomes* himself, whereafter there is no

misapprehension and the need to ask any more questions, because the

rest of the world, which he hithertofore saw as alien to himself,

then fully resolves into his self-identity.

10. This misapprehension (ignorance) is termed anAdi

(beginningless) in vEdanta.

11. Anything beginningless should be endless too. That is

infinity.

12. Are we then creating a parallel reality to the Absolute by

calling ignorance anAdi?

13. I don't think so if we know it as mAyA as associated with the

Absolute (Shiva-ShaktiA yuktO of Soundarya Lahari). (Please note

that here the word `associated' doesn't indicate any duality. It is

just an empirical compulsion.)

14. That is why we propitiate MayAji first when She Herself

reveals as ShivAji who She really is and who we all really are. No

wonder, Sankara has called Her the lIlAnAtakasUtrabhEdanakarI as well

as vijnAna dIpAnkurI in AnnapUrNA StOtram.

15. Advaita is a universal vision, which presents us with a fool-

proof model for the universe we confront. By logically uniting the

enquirer with the whole universe in fullness, it doesn't leave any

external entities, as do all theologies which compel us to ask

unending questions about the Gods they impose on us.

16. As Rajkumar Nair rightly pointed out, empirical

considerations that have validity in space and time cannot be applied

to advaitic Fullness.

17. When we have the advaitic vision – I mean an intellectual or

academic appreciation (I have noted your previous objections to these

terms and I intend to clarify my stand on it in due course, a task I

haven't been able to attend to due to shortage of time.), we then

have to engage in advaitic sAdhanA including contemplation and

reflection on the vision in order to assimilate it into and as our

very being.

18. The saying `the proof of the pudding is in its eating'

applies here. One has to have faith in scriptural guarantees and

endeavour tirelessly. No harm can come from it. There is no danger

of getting waylaid either because you are on your way to be the whole

universe – to be total love in love with everything. Is there any

better goal to be pursued?

19. You will then realize that questions like why my

misapprehension appears as a universe of this shape, have I seen such

a universe before (like the memory of a snake seen before in the

analogy) have no validity.

20. I once asked: "Swamiji, why this ignorance at all?". Curt

was Swamiji's answer: "If you acknowledge that there is ignorance,

find out!".

21. Understand this universe of variety as a city reflected in a

mirror in your awareness (vishwam darpaNadrisyamAna nagarI).

Understand that it is you yourself who expands as the universe (like

a tree sprouting out from a seed) and then folds back

(bIjasyAntarivankurO) (All similes from Sankara's DakshinAmUrti

StOtram).

22. Understand that you are the only subject. The rest are

objects, yet not outside you but in your awareness. You being

awareness known as fullness, they cannot be parts of you but you

yourself. That includes ignorance too. You now know why it is anAdi.

23. The so-called external world is an unraveling of

Consciousness. With self-imposed feelings of limitations, we have no

choice over what unravels or the nature of the unraveling (questions

about why the universe is like this, have I seen another world to do

the superimposition this way, etc.). When the limitations vanish,

you are no more concerned with these questions as you realize that

what you are *witnessing* is your own very being.

24. There can be any number of infinitely regressing worlds to pick

from. That is truly bewildering to the limited jIvA. However,

advaitically, that is immaterial because the subject (the real you)is

the only one fulcrum that operates the unravellings and where all

regress should ultimately rest.

 

Trust I have been able to clarify your doubts with these random

thoughts.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

 

__________________________

advaitin, "R.S.MANI" <r_s_mani> wrote:

> 1) WHO IS SUPERIMPOSING, I.E. WHO HAS THE IGNORANCE FOR THIS

SUPERIMPOSITION, i.e. FOR SUPERIMPOSING A WORLD ON BRAHMAN?

>

> 2) A SNAKE WAS SEEN EARLIER OR SNAKE-KNOWLEDGE/MEMORY WAS THERE

FOR ONE TO SUPERIMPOSE A SNAKE ON A ROPE DUE TO IGNORANCE. IS THERE A

WORLD SEEN EARLIER OR THAT WORLD-KNOWLEDGE/MEMORY ON THE PART OF THE

SUPERIMPOSER WHO SUPERIMPOOSES THE WORLD ON BRAHMAN? IF SO, WHAT WAS

THAT WORLD, WAS IT ALSO A SUPERIMPOSITION ON BRAHMAN AT THAT TIME?

 

 

 

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman

and Brahman.

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To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Nairji, and others

 

Namaste.

 

Sri Nairji has done an excellent job in clarifying the whole position. Thank you

very much.

 

Yes, sitting in a running train, I cannot compalin why the trees on both the

side should run. That is how the Adyasa works and it is naisargikaha. Once I

know it is not the trees that run but the train in which I am sitting myself

runs, I enjoy the trees running. To see that the train runs and it is not the

trees that run, I have to come out of the train. While sitting in the train, I

can only know that the running of the trees is just an appearance. However, I

can verify this once I get down from the train. However, that verification is

not necessary, as I, though sit inside the running train, I “know” it is the

train that runs. So, I should enjoy seeing the running trees when I continue my

travel in the train.

 

Sri Rajkumar Nairji and Sri Neelakantanji also clarified the position very well.

 

My questions were only for reinforcing my understanding of the subject.

 

I will continue my train journey now with much more enjoyment. Oh Mayaji, Let

the fun continue and let me continue to enjoy the fun.

 

Thank you blessed Advaitins

 

Warm Regards & Hari Om

 

 

 

 

Madathil Rajendran Nair <madathilnair wrote:Namaste Maniji.

 

This is my understanding, which I believe I had mentioned here before:

 

1. The rope-snake analogy belongs to the empirical.

2. It is in the empirical that the rope is identified as rope

and its misapprehension as snake removed.

3. At the end, rope remains an object separate from the subject

who had the misapprehension.

4. All analogies belong to the empirical and, therefore, have

limitations. They never can completely elucidate the Absolute.

5. They shouldn't therefore be stretched too far to ask

questions about the Absolute which is not available for our

objectification like the rope.

6. Besides, while the rope is an object, the Absolute is the

questioner himself.

7. Thus, while the analogy establishes the true identity of an

object, advaita reveals the true identity of the seeker himself. It

is the seeker's knowing himself and that is not an ordinary knowing

involving a subject and object.

8. It is to the questioner himself that the misapprehension

occurs, i.e. to the limited entity who isolates himself from the rest

of the world and suffers from seeing it as alien to himself.

9. Self-realization is the de-working of that alienation whereby

the questioner *becomes* himself, whereafter there is no

misapprehension and the need to ask any more questions, because the

rest of the world, which he hithertofore saw as alien to himself,

then fully resolves into his self-identity.

10. This misapprehension (ignorance) is termed anAdi

(beginningless) in vEdanta.

11. Anything beginningless should be endless too. That is

infinity.

12. Are we then creating a parallel reality to the Absolute by

calling ignorance anAdi?

13. I don't think so if we know it as mAyA as associated with the

Absolute (Shiva-ShaktiA yuktO of Soundarya Lahari). (Please note

that here the word `associated' doesn't indicate any duality. It is

just an empirical compulsion.)

14. That is why we propitiate MayAji first when She Herself

reveals as ShivAji who She really is and who we all really are. No

wonder, Sankara has called Her the lIlAnAtakasUtrabhEdanakarI as well

as vijnAna dIpAnkurI in AnnapUrNA StOtram.

15. Advaita is a universal vision, which presents us with a fool-

proof model for the universe we confront. By logically uniting the

enquirer with the whole universe in fullness, it doesn't leave any

external entities, as do all theologies which compel us to ask

unending questions about the Gods they impose on us.

16. As Rajkumar Nair rightly pointed out, empirical

considerations that have validity in space and time cannot be applied

to advaitic Fullness.

17. When we have the advaitic vision – I mean an intellectual or

academic appreciation (I have noted your previous objections to these

terms and I intend to clarify my stand on it in due course, a task I

haven't been able to attend to due to shortage of time.), we then

have to engage in advaitic sAdhanA including contemplation and

reflection on the vision in order to assimilate it into and as our

very being.

18. The saying `the proof of the pudding is in its eating'

applies here. One has to have faith in scriptural guarantees and

endeavour tirelessly. No harm can come from it. There is no danger

of getting waylaid either because you are on your way to be the whole

universe – to be total love in love with everything. Is there any

better goal to be pursued?

19. You will then realize that questions like why my

misapprehension appears as a universe of this shape, have I seen such

a universe before (like the memory of a snake seen before in the

analogy) have no validity.

20. I once asked: "Swamiji, why this ignorance at all?". Curt

was Swamiji's answer: "If you acknowledge that there is ignorance,

find out!".

21. Understand this universe of variety as a city reflected in a

mirror in your awareness (vishwam darpaNadrisyamAna nagarI).

Understand that it is you yourself who expands as the universe (like

a tree sprouting out from a seed) and then folds back

(bIjasyAntarivankurO) (All similes from Sankara's DakshinAmUrti

StOtram).

22. Understand that you are the only subject. The rest are

objects, yet not outside you but in your awareness. You being

awareness known as fullness, they cannot be parts of you but you

yourself. That includes ignorance too. You now know why it is anAdi.

23. The so-called external world is an unraveling of

Consciousness. With self-imposed feelings of limitations, we have no

choice over what unravels or the nature of the unraveling (questions

about why the universe is like this, have I seen another world to do

the superimposition this way, etc.). When the limitations vanish,

you are no more concerned with these questions as you realize that

what you are *witnessing* is your own very being.

24. There can be any number of infinitely regressing worlds to pick

from. That is truly bewildering to the limited jIvA. However,

advaitically, that is immaterial because the subject (the real you)is

the only one fulcrum that operates the unravellings and where all

regress should ultimately rest.

 

Trust I have been able to clarify your doubts with these random

thoughts.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

 

__________________________

advaitin, "R.S.MANI" <r_s_mani> wrote:

> 1) WHO IS SUPERIMPOSING, I.E. WHO HAS THE IGNORANCE FOR THIS

SUPERIMPOSITION, i.e. FOR SUPERIMPOSING A WORLD ON BRAHMAN?

>

> 2) A SNAKE WAS SEEN EARLIER OR SNAKE-KNOWLEDGE/MEMORY WAS THERE

FOR ONE TO SUPERIMPOSE A SNAKE ON A ROPE DUE TO IGNORANCE. IS THERE A

WORLD SEEN EARLIER OR THAT WORLD-KNOWLEDGE/MEMORY ON THE PART OF THE

SUPERIMPOSER WHO SUPERIMPOOSES THE WORLD ON BRAHMAN? IF SO, WHAT WAS

THAT WORLD, WAS IT ALSO A SUPERIMPOSITION ON BRAHMAN AT THAT TIME?

 

 

 

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman

and Brahman.

Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

 

 

 

 

advaitin/

 

advaitin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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