On Talking ........ Khalil gibran - Note from Moderators

May 12, 2004

Namaste,

Members have been reminding the Moderators to exercise control

over postings that are out of the scope of this List, excessively

frequent (more than one a day), excessively long-winded, short on

practical guidance, etc.

We would appreciate members' understanding and co-operation

in this respect, and build an invigorating approach to Shankara's

writings.

Thanking all in anticipation,

List Moderators

advaitin, "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16>

wrote:

> And then a scholar said, "Speak of Talking."

**********************************************************************

>

> i am sad ! *shock and awe* is closer to home now ! >

>

May 12, 2004

Namaste,

Let me take a chance and bring the moderators' annoyance on my head,

for the sake of Adiji's feelings, which may not be feeling so good

right now!

I do agree that any talk of the war is off topic for this list.

However, I also think that that beautiful poem by Khalil Gibran on

the spirituality of silence is very much in the spirit of Ramana.

As for frequency of posts, I used to be a major transgressor. It

goes away after a while, as it did in my case. The early period of

exuberant enthusiasm is one of the best times to stretch one's

spiritual boundaries. Sobriety can kill the spirit.

Hari Om!

Benjamin

May 12, 2004

Namaskar to all of the members of this group!

I felt the need to address this issue because not so long ago

I was the recipient of warnings and eventual moderation for

my antiwar/offtopic postings just prior to the invasion of Iraq.

Despite several warnings, I just kept on going, partly because

I could not accept how we could be so callous to the suffering

of "others" if nonduality meant that we ARE the other, so to speak.

Since I would not listen to the warnings, I was placed on moderation.

I hope that makes you feel bit better, Adiji :-)

Since the subject has come up several times in the past few weeks,

it seems that the expectations of the members

and moderators as to what is acceptable bears some discussion.

Whether some members are allowed more leeway than others

is hardly something I have either the time or the interest to address,

although I will say that the moderators need to look into their own

hearts to examine whether what Adiji says it true. I will admit I remember

some posts not so long ago when Nairji was almost in the middle of the

bombings and he posted about it without any censorship. And so it should

be...sometimes when the dream we call life becomes so intense it can

truly call into question the spiritual foundations upon which we stand.

"I am not the doer." "It is the play of Lila."

Life is but a dream, so be the Witness...

Perhaps some examination of this in light of what

happens, or seems to happen, around us, would be

helpful to some. I did not bring up Sundarji's quotes

of Lord Kishna's references on that subject without specific reason

nor did Harshaji's post to Adiji,not to worry, because she was

not the doer, go unnoticed by me. Maybe I am not the only

one who would like to have this explained a bit more,

as it relates to the world around us, if only as a reminder to

remain centered in the chaos which prevails.

So, I hope I am not too off topic, but since Adiji addressed

part of her message to me, knowing that I live near the hometown

of the young man in question, I felt I should acknowledge her post.

And to mention...I do not watch TV, I do not read the news unless

it is thrust upon me, and I prefer not to know what is going on.

Yet, there is still an underlying uneasiness that I am being cold and

almost escapist in this approach. A little sugar to make the medicine

go down would be most appreciated.

Now, no long winded posts please.

And no fancy language that I cannot understand without

also providing definitions of all terms used...and

only practical advice is acceptable.

Furthermore, Hari OM!!!

Love,

Joyce

And to quote Sunderji, without any idea what I am talking about...

Some remedies Krishna suggests for the 'doership' dilemma!

buddhiyukto jahaatiiha ubhe sukR^itadushhkR^ite .

tasmaadyogaaya yujyasva yogaH karmasu kaushalam.h .. 2\-50..

tasmaatsarveshhu kaaleshhu maamanusmara yudhya cha .. 8\-7..

tasmaatsarveshhu kaaleshhu yogayukto bhavaarjuna .. 8\-27..

svakarmaNaa tamabhyarchya siddhi.n vindati maanavaH .. 18\-46..

===========================================

> dear moderators!

>

> yes! i do admit ...

>

> i poasted too many messages today - so i am guilty as charged

>

> but as far as long winding msgs are concerned , i am not the only one

>

> and so it was unfair of you to address that to me and my post ...

>

> if you only want adi shankara's teachings, you should mention it to

> all members not just me ...

>

> i see many members attacking each other , a lot of groupism ... and i

> do not see you addressing those issues ... as professorji said too

> many egos at play ...

>

> anyway ....

>

> -- In advaitin, "advaitins" <moderators@a...> wrote:

> > Namaste,

> >

> > Members have been reminding the Moderators to exercise

> control

> > over postings that are out of the scope of this List, excessively

> > frequent (more than one a day), excessively long-winded, short on

> > practical guidance, etc.

> >

> > We would appreciate members' understanding and co-

> operation

> > in this respect, and build an invigorating approach to Shankara's

> > writings.

> >

> > Thanking all in anticipation,

> >

> > List Moderators

> >

> > advaitin, "adi_shakthi16"

> <adi_shakthi16>

> > wrote:

> > > And then a scholar said, "Speak of Talking."

> >

> **********************************************************************

> > >

> > > i am sad ! *shock and awe* is closer to home now ! >

> > >

>

> Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of

Atman and Brahman.

> Advaitin List Archives available at:

http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

> To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

> Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

>

> Links

>

May 12, 2004

advaitin, Benjamin <orion777ben> wrote:

>

> Let me take a chance and bring the moderators' annoyance on my head,

Namaste All,

Moderators are not annoyed! They have to bring to the

attention of the membership the views that contributors also need to

be aware of. Facilitation of the flow of views is the sole aim of the

moderators. As Ram-ji has repeatedly stressed every member is a de

facto moderator, and does have an obligation to assist the designated

moderators. When the silent majority utters a word, it needs careful

listening!

The Gita ideal of 'sthita-prajna', one of steady wisdom,

(Gita 2:55-72), is not beyond our reach, but the mind has to be

goaded into it by one's own repeated efforts.

List Moderators

May 12, 2004

Lady Joyce,

thank you !

after reading your post, i wa reminded of the following zen story ...

Four monks decided to meditate silently without speaking for two

weeks. By nightfall on the first day, the candle began to flicker and

then went out. The first monk said, "Oh, no! The candle is out." The

second monk said, "Aren't we not suppose to talk?" The third monk

said, "Why must you two break the silence?" The fourth monk laughed

and said, "Ha! I'm the only one who didn't speak."

and a second one that goes like this ...

Two men were arguing about a flag flapping in the wind. "It's the

wind that is really moving," stated the first one. "No, it is the

flag that is moving," contended the second. A Zen master, who

happened to be walking by, overheard the debate and interrupted

them. "Neither the flag nor the wind is moving," he said, "It is MIND

that moves."

It is o.k. i am cool!

love

Life goes on! smiles !!!

-- In advaitin, "Lady Joyce" <shaantih@c...> wrote:

> Namaskar to all of the members of this group!

>

> I felt the need to address this issue because not so long ago

> I was the recipient of warnings and eventual moderation for

> my antiwar/offtopic postings just prior to the invasion of Iraq.

> Despite several warnings, I just kept on going, partly because

> I could not accept how we could be so callous to the suffering

> of "others" if nonduality meant that we ARE the other, so to speak.

> Since I would not listen to the warnings, I was placed on

moderation.

> I hope that makes you feel bit better, Adiji :-)

>

> Since the subject has come up several times in the past few weeks,

> it seems that the expectations of the members

> and moderators as to what is acceptable bears some discussion.

> Whether some members are allowed more leeway than others

> is hardly something I have either the time or the interest to

address,

> although I will say that the moderators need to look into their own

> hearts to examine whether what Adiji says it true. I will admit I

remember

> some posts not so long ago when Nairji was almost in the middle of

the

> bombings and he posted about it without any censorship. And so it

should

> be...sometimes when the dream we call life becomes so intense it can

> truly call into question the spiritual foundations upon which we

stand.

>

> "I am not the doer." "It is the play of Lila."

> Life is but a dream, so be the Witness...

> Perhaps some examination of this in light of what

> happens, or seems to happen, around us, would be

> helpful to some. I did not bring up Sundarji's quotes

> of Lord Kishna's references on that subject without specific reason

> nor did Harshaji's post to Adiji,not to worry, because she was

> not the doer, go unnoticed by me. Maybe I am not the only

> one who would like to have this explained a bit more,

> as it relates to the world around us, if only as a reminder to

> remain centered in the chaos which prevails.

>

> So, I hope I am not too off topic, but since Adiji addressed

> part of her message to me, knowing that I live near the hometown

> of the young man in question, I felt I should acknowledge her post.

> And to mention...I do not watch TV, I do not read the news unless

> it is thrust upon me, and I prefer not to know what is going on.

> Yet, there is still an underlying uneasiness that I am being cold

and

> almost escapist in this approach. A little sugar to make the

medicine

> go down would be most appreciated.

>

> Now, no long winded posts please.

> And no fancy language that I cannot understand without

> also providing definitions of all terms used...and

> only practical advice is acceptable.

> Furthermore, Hari OM!!!

>

> Love,

>

> Joyce

>

> And to quote Sunderji, without any idea what I am talking about...

>

> Some remedies Krishna suggests for the 'doership' dilemma!

>

> buddhiyukto jahaatiiha ubhe sukR^itadushhkR^ite .

> tasmaadyogaaya yujyasva yogaH karmasu kaushalam.h .. 2\-50..

>

> tasmaatsarveshhu kaaleshhu maamanusmara yudhya cha .. 8\-7..

>

> tasmaatsarveshhu kaaleshhu yogayukto bhavaarjuna .. 8\-27..

>

> svakarmaNaa tamabhyarchya siddhi.n vindati maanavaH .. 18\-46..

>

> ===========================================

>

> > dear moderators!

> >

> > yes! i do admit ...

> >

> > i poasted too many messages today - so i am guilty as charged

> >

> > but as far as long winding msgs are concerned , i am not the only

one

> >

> > and so it was unfair of you to address that to me and my post ...

> >

> > if you only want adi shankara's teachings, you should mention it

to

> > all members not just me ...

> >

> > i see many members attacking each other , a lot of groupism ...

and i

> > do not see you addressing those issues ... as professorji said too

> > many egos at play ...

> >

> > anyway ....

> >

> > -- In advaitin, "advaitins" <moderators@a...>

wrote:

> > > Namaste,

> > >

> > > Members have been reminding the Moderators to exercise

> > control

> > > over postings that are out of the scope of this List,

excessively

> > > frequent (more than one a day), excessively long-winded, short

on

> > > practical guidance, etc.

> > >

> > > We would appreciate members' understanding and co-

> > operation

> > > in this respect, and build an invigorating approach to

Shankara's

> > > writings.

> > >

> > > Thanking all in anticipation,

> > >

> > > List Moderators

> > >

> > > advaitin, "adi_shakthi16"

> > <adi_shakthi16>

> > > wrote:

> > > > And then a scholar said, "Speak of Talking."

> > >

> >

**********************************************************************

> > > >

> > > > i am sad ! *shock and awe* is closer to home now ! >

> > > >

> >

> > Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of

nonseparablity of

> Atman and Brahman.

> > Advaitin List Archives available at:

> http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

> > To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

> > Messages Archived at:

advaitin/messages

> >

> > Links

> >

May 13, 2004

Namaste to all advaitins,

Please, let us not forget the purpose for which, I suppose, we are all on this

list:

To progressively emaciate and ultimately dissolve our individual egos.

praNAms,

Venkat - M

Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download

Messenger Now

May 13, 2004

Namaste Adiji,

Speaking for myself, I like the free spirit in your posts. And I

would not call them long-winded. Or at least you have company here!

You should see what I wrote when I first came on board about a year

ago. That was more than 'long-winded'; that was a hurricane of words.

I do agree with the moderators that politics and gossip are

inappropriate here. I am also addicted to politics and once talked

about it here. Things like crusades and jihad. I figured that was

'religious' too. But it ruins the sacred atmosphere here. It should

be like a temple. So we should take the politics out to the street.

Or to your site, which is a lot of fun, combining poetry and politics.

You are right that we scholars here can get our egos wrapped up in

our arguments. I lost my temper a few times when I first came to

this list. It surprised and embarrassed me, since I was sure I would

never do such a thing. I consider it part of our spiritual education

to examine our hearts and see if we really care about the truth or

about winning an argument. Scholars are indeed vulnerable to

intellectual pride. It goes with the territory.

But we need people who are thinking! If everybody were predominantly

emotional that would be very dangerous. The different people in

society balance each other out. The Shiva in us has the wisdom; the

Shakti in us has the love. Wisdom without love is sterile; love

without wisdom is dangerous.

Also, don't take it too seriously when I said 'Sobriety can kill the

spirit'. Notice I said 'can', not 'will'. And too much drunkenness

can destroy the soul. Again, a question of balance (although a few

mystics did apparently get there via the path of divine madness).

Well, I see a number of other messages in this thread that I have not

read yet, but I will just send this message in anyway.

Cheer up! Those who give love are always loved in return, but

perhaps not in the way they expect...

Hari Om!

Benjamin

May 13, 2004

Namaste,

Two stories from Adiji...

>Four monks decided to meditate silently without

>speaking for two weeks. By nightfall on the first

>day, the candle began to flicker and then went out.

>The first monk said, "Oh, no! The candle is out."

>The second monk said, "Aren't we not suppose to talk?"

>The third monk said, "Why must you two break the silence?"

>The fourth monk laughed and said, "Ha! I'm the only one

>who didn't speak."

Very funny! And clever.

>Two men were arguing about a flag flapping in the wind.

>"It's the wind that is really moving," stated the first

>one. "No, it is the flag that is moving," contended the

>second. A Zen master, who happened to be walking by,

>overheard the debate and interrupted them. "Neither the

>flag nor the wind is moving," he said, "It is MIND

>that moves."

Very Advaitin! And profound.

From the 'Platform Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch of Zen'

Adiji, we are SCHOLARLY here. Gotta give references!

Now these were two very entertaining, very advaitin and altogether

non-long-winded messages! Good job, Adiji! :-)

Hari Om!

Benjamin

May 13, 2004

Namaste All,

The Moderators are most open to direct correspondence

regarding improving the moderation process, and comments can be sent

to:

moderators

It would also help them to know if the writer has any

objection to the moderators putting it on the list (with or without

identifying the writer), or if they definitely want it posted.

We also look for individuals who are willing to volunteer as

moderators, and recruit them as vacancies arise.

Moderators' Notes are NOT addressed to specific individuals,

but summarise comments on issues of concern when members write to

them.

We hope that the List postings concern themselves with the

scope of the list rather than other issues, even though vitally

important in other contexts.

List Moderators

advaitin, Benjamin <orion777ben> wrote:

>

> Namaste Adiji,

>

> Speaking for myself, I like the free spirit in your posts. And I

> would not call them long-winded. Or at least you have company

here!

>

> Cheer up! Those who give love are always loved in return, but

> perhaps not in the way they expect...

May 13, 2004

Thank you ben !

I Can feel the Sunshine of Love shining on both cheeks of mine after

reading your posts!

on another note, the moderators here are pretty reasonable for the

most part and are receptive to criticism ! i would not have survived

long in any other group!

but i was way out of line when i brought up that 'behaeading'

issue... and i was wrong ! it would have opened up a whole new can of

worms ! the moderators, in theim infinite goodness, did not delete my

post or ban me as a member ! i am ashamed of my indiscrtion! Sorry!!

but lady joyce has given some good suggestions .

1) For those who are not familiar with sanskrit terms , it would be a

good idea to give meanings where neceessary !

2) same goes for gita verses. Although, sunderji says that all the

translation is available in the files section, it is too time

consuming to locate the verse and its meaning.

3) of course, personal attacks should be avoided , we are all guilty

of that at osome point or the other . If you resonnate with the post,

praise the subject matter not the author of the post. Same goes for

criticism -refute the arguments gently but firmly if it does not vibe

with your thinking . But , nobody has the last word . we may win a

battle but lose the WAR, *(VALUABLE MEMBERS QUIT)

AND ONE LAST POINT...

moderators may want to look at their mission statement closely ...

",The list encourages a wide range of discussion topics focusing on

Shankara, pre-Shankara and post-Shankara Advaita Philosophy. The list

will support spiritual discussions related to *Vaishnavam, Shaivam,

Buddhism, Jainism and others.* This forum facilitates friendly and

meaningful discussions with following goals: To understand the nature

of Ultimate Reality. *To comprehend self-realization and transform

that to actions that are good for the society.* To describe such

realizations and actions using *simple language for easy

understanding. *To motivate beginners in philosophy to study and

appreciate the message of Scriptures. To help members to develop an

attitude to appreciate the *good in every human being with an open

mind. *

This is very broad !!! so that is why transgreessions OCCUR. for To

my simple mind, Rumi and kabir or advaitic !

Most groups disappear because moderators are high-handed and they

will be posting to themselves. Such is not the case here ! this is a

vibrant group with a lot of 'voices' ... and melodious too!

oh benji, how can i be sober?

i am intoxicated with the name of god/ess

" The heart which has seen the beloved will never stay

sour. (And) a nightingale (which) has seen the rose will

never stay silent."

(rumi)

May 13, 2004

1) For those who are not familiar with sanskrit terms , it would be a

good idea to give meanings where neceessary !

2) same goes for gita verses. Although, sunderji says that all the

translation is available in the files section, it is too time

consuming to locate the verse and its meaning.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Yes please!!!!!!!!!!

",The list encourages a wide range of discussion topics focusing on

Shankara, pre-Shankara and post-Shankara Advaita Philosophy. The list

will support spiritual discussions related to *Vaishnavam, Shaivam,

Buddhism, Jainism and others.* This forum facilitates friendly and

meaningful discussions with following goals: To understand the nature

of Ultimate Reality. *To comprehend self-realization and transform

that to actions that are good for the society.* To describe such

realizations and actions using *simple language for easy

understanding. *To motivate beginners in philosophy to study and

appreciate the message of Scriptures. To help members to develop an

attitude to appreciate the *good in every human being with an open

mind. *

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Thank you for posting this.

I had begun to think I was out of place on this list.

It had begun go seem that this was an entirely Shankara-centric list

devoted to scriptural interpretation.

But according to the above that is not so.

Hence I will carry on a bit here to see.

What I like about this list is its combination of jnana and bhakti.

To me that is a precious combination.

Bill

-

adi_shakthi16

advaitin

Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:10 AM

Re: On Talking ........ Khalil gibran - Note from Moderators