Reincarnation and Vasanas - Some thoughts - Shree Madhava's thoughts

[Guest guest]

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Shree Madhava's thoughts are posted:

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Raghavaji,

 

Hari Om! Namaste!

 

Brilliant topic to kick start a discussion on vasanas.

It is so interesting I can't resist with out adding

more to your points :-)

 

Before going in to the subject we have to see the

model of Jeeva. "Two birds are on the branch of a

tree, one is indulged in eating a fruit and the

other is watching it! " if we understand this

upanishadic statement,

the model becomes clear.

 

Even modern day psychologists (Sundarji can confirm

it!) say that there

is an observing self in us. During extreme traumas we

seperate ourselves

from us and watch us undergoing the trauma. We can

clearly see ourselves in

certain situations. The observing self is the purusha

(the watching bird)

and the indulging self is the prakriti (eating bird).

Vasanas (casual body), Ego, Intellect, Mind and all

other things come in to the indulging

self.

 

Through sadhana the Seer gains the power of stop

identifying with the indulging bird and start

identifying with the observing bird. Vasanas

are the goading factors for indulgance! To certain

extent we can say that moksha

(liberation) is when the observing bird thinks that it

has had enough with the indulging bird and parts

company!

 

The mejastic cosmic drama of life and death of the

indulging bird and the ever attached observing bird

continues till the observing bird stops

observing. I would like to quote a beautiful statement

from Katha Upanishad here:

 

"Oh Nachiketa! It is imperceptible by senses; it is

hidden with in our souls; it dwells in the cave of our

hearts, it is very subtle, very deep,

old and ancient. It existed before the beginning of

creation, and still exists, and it will exist through

all eternity. If you wish to know this

you must practice Yoga, practice concentration,

meditation, and must enter in to samadhi, and there

you must come face to face with that which is

eternal and immortal. Then you shall be able to

realize that, and after realizing the eternal truth,

you shall arise above phenomena! pleasure and

pain, sorrow and misery, happines and unhappyness.

Whoever has realized that immortal nature, has become

perfect, has gone beyond good and evil,

virtue and vice, heaven and hell, all duality and

relativity, and has transcended all the laws which

govern the phenomenal nature."

 

Coming to the points of reincarnation:

 

a) a) How long does it take one to reincarnate ?

 

Madhava: It is of two types: vanchita (wanted)

avaanchita (never wanted)

Seers, yogis and Gods (e.g. Vishnu) come down using

Vanchita reincornation.

All other beings like myself comedown with avanchita

reincarnation.

Again applying the analogy of Observing and indulging

birds. A seer who takes

vanchita incarnation is a like the observing bird -

who knows completly about the indulging bird's

instatiable indulgance, still goes along with it!

Where as others who take Avanchita reincarnation are

like the indulging bird

which keeps haplessly hoping from one branch of the

tree to the other branch, driven only by the sheer

force of insatiable hunger (vaasanas).

 

The indulging soul is like a dreamer who hops from one

dream to the other.

How long does it take to switch for a dreamer from one

dream to the other,

so long it takes for a soul to reincarnate. It is as

swift as a desire,swifter than a panting dove or a

hunting panther! Reincarnating speed is

mesured in manovega (momentum of mind)

 

 

b) Where does one reincarnate ?

Depends on what kind it is, vanchinta or avanchita!

 

c) Why does one reincarnate ?

Helpless stupidity.

 

d) How long is the next journey after reincarnation ?

Madhava: While commenting on Garuda purana my teacher

told me that

birth is

swift and immediate. It takes four months (to be a

part of a rice plant)soul enters in to the human body

as the food consumed. It is difficult to

explain but definitely nobody hangs in the ether or

sky. They are born within no time. Droped as rain

and sucked by roots, or breathed from air

through plant leaves, it starts with vegitation. At

the lowest level of nature.

 

e) What is the single and most important lesson

to be learned that was scheduled or is being

scheduled now ?

Madhava: IF YOU DO WHAT YOU ALWAYS DID, YOU WILL GET

WHAT YOU ALWAYS GOT...

There will never be any change!

 

f) What does one do in the intermittent time between

births ?

Not even a nano second.

 

Interesting discussion! Thank you for sharing your

thoughts.

 

Yours,

Madhava

 

 

______________________

India Matrimony: Find your partner online.

http://.shaadi.com/india-matrimony/

[empy]

"d) How long is the next journey after reincarnation ?

Madhava: While commenting on Garuda purana my teacher

told me that

birth is

swift and immediate. It takes four months (to be a

part of a rice plant)soul enters in to the human body

as the food consumed. It is difficult to

explain but definitely nobody hangs in the ether or

sky. They are born within no time. Droped as rain

and sucked by roots, or breathed from air

through plant leaves, it starts with vegitation. At

the lowest level of nature"

 

I am with sri Raghavarao in most of what he said.

But,it takes atleast one year for the soul to find a womb, and reincarnate.

that's why, religious rites are prescribed for one year, so that the soul settles its mind, recognises it's soul form and tne need for rebirth, then chooses it's parents.

[abmind]

^^ I think time is not important here. It can be less than a year and can be many years. The soul has to wait to take its destined birth basing on the accumulated karma. The time of rebirth should satisfy the celestial rulers as the forecast of the person depends on time of entry. We have proven astrology system is also in working. Some schools avoid the involvement of god in this process but Hinduism considers.

 

Any body has deep insight? about the involvement of god during reincarnation. Please share.

[empy]

About the involvement of god during re incarnation?

Mortals like Humans take re-birth, where as God re-incarnates.

 

Humans take rebirth as per the balance in Their account( of good and bad deeds done during the past lives)of fate, also called prarabhdha,

and hence take better, equal or lesser forms of life during their next birth.

 

God has no such accumulations, and he reincarnats only to UPHOLD RIGHTEOUSNESS, DESTROY THE WICKED MINDS AND ENCOuRAGE GOOD DEEDS.

Please read the verse " YADA YADAHI DHARMASYA GLANIR BHAVATI BHARATA......" wher the above theme is reiterated.

[abmind]

 

About the involvement of god during re incarnation?

Mortals like Humans take re-birth, where as God re-incarnates.

 

Humans take rebirth as per the balance in Their account( of good and bad deeds done during the past lives)of fate, also called prarabhdha,

and hence take better, equal or lesser forms of life during their next birth.

 

God has no such accumulations, and he reincarnats only to UPHOLD RIGHTEOUSNESS, DESTROY THE WICKED MINDS AND ENCOuRAGE GOOD DEEDS.

Please read the verse " YADA YADAHI DHARMASYA GLANIR BHAVATI BHARATA......" wher the above theme is reiterated.

 

I didn't mean God has karma accumulations. You interpreted wrong. Please read the beliefs of various religions about reincarnation. For example though Budhists believe reincarnation they will not believe the influence of the God during reincarnation even Sikhism and Jainism also believe in same. Where as Hinduism endorses the influence of God in addition to Karmic balances. There is a vast difference between these two beliefs. Various Hindu rituals devised to support this belief and in practice among Hindus.

[chandu_69]

 

Any body has deep insight? about the involvement of god during reincarnation. Please share.

 

I am sure god doesnt like you or me to know it .

 

I think that is entirely divine business.

[abmind]

 

I am sure god doesnt like you or me to know it .

 

I think that is entirely divine business.

 

Definitely not you and me but there are people who can see percieve divineness. Some people call logical regression.

[chandu_69]

 

Definitely not you and me but there are people who can see percieve divineness

.

 

May be there are people out there but it is highly unlikely we will get in touch with the.

[blue.ray.child]

 

Any body has deep insight? about the involvement of god during reincarnation. Please share.

Here's an insight:

 

Try to name one aspect of reincarnation that does not involve "god" and you will see that god is involved in all aspects of reincarnation. Because without god, there would be nothing to reincarnate nor anything to reincarnate into, since god is all things visible and invisible.