Comment on discussion so far

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

An anonymous list member just commented to me that there's not much

discussion yet on this month's topic, unlike before...

 

I think it is because Kenji is making us WORK, with long and

substantial postings. Real homework! People would rather just

express their own opinions.

 

As for me, I have a good excuse. I have to write this paper on

Advaita that Sadaji signed me up for. Still, Ken, I do try to read

what I can, sometimes carefully, other times in a bit of a hurry...

 

You definitely are a scholar!

 

Hari Om!

Benjamin

[Guest guest]

--- Benjamin <orion777ben wrote:

>

> An anonymous list member just commented to me that

> there's not much

> discussion yet on this month's topic, unlike

> before...

 

Good evening Benjamin,

Sunderji really gave me a monumental task with this

title and I had to try to find a way to present the

topic so that we did not proceed without making some

effort to come to grips with a context very different

from that which some of us know while others have been

acquainted with it since birth.

As I began, ‘This is the advaitin site, Jim, but not

as we know it.’ If I am taking the wrong approach then

can the moderators please let me know, although my own

personal measure will be applied when we reach the

second stage of the study and when people have a

chance to look at the use of mAyA in the Vedas.

>

> I think it is because Kenji is making us WORK, with

> long and

> substantial postings. Real homework! People would

> rather just

> express their own opinions.

 

The work, always, is to let go of all previous

understanding. If we are to hear the sound of the

Vedas we bring everything to the sacrificial fire.

The hymns are immensely rich, everything that any of

us needs to make us wealthy, in a true sense, is

there.

Any sacrifice needs a prepared place and necessary

tools. I am trying to facilitate the sacrifice in an

experimental way in cyber-space. As I have tended to

emphasise in the postings, we in urbanised, literate

environments are being expected to fly with one strong

wing and one withered; the analytical approach has

been well nourished but the intuitive has been

neglected. Most of us have not learned to listen

attentively within to the sound of sruti.

The Vedas will not respond to the analytical alone, as

a Sufi poet wrote:

'Enter the chamber of the heart and clean it out, then

leave and the Lord will fill it with his glories.'

 

Thank you for your patience and good fortune with your

advaita paper. Even if you are scanning these

postings I know that some verse from the Rgveda will

leap out at you. That is why I am gradually

introducing more of the words of the hymns, they are

far more important than my rambling explanations,

 

Thank you for taking the time to comment,

 

Ken Knight

 

=====

‘From this Supreme Self are all these, indeed, breathed forth.’

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste Kenji,

 

We could not have wished for a better expositor than you for

this subject!

 

We would not want to hamper your approach in any way

whatsoever, for you have the experience of many years in explaining

this.

 

I derive great satisfaction in the sober advice of the Gita,

in the following verses: 18:37; 15:15; 10:42

 

Gita

 

18:36. Now hear from Me, O scion of the Bharata dynasty, as regards

the three kinds of joy: That in which one delights owing to habit,

and certainly attains the cessation of sorrows; [s. and S.S. take the

second line of this verse along with the next verse referring to

sattvika happiness.-Tr.]

Idanim, now; srnu, hear; me, from Me i.e. be attentive to what I say;

tu, as regards; the trividham, three kinds of; sukham, joy, O scion

of the Bharata dynasty. Yatra, that in which; ramate, one delights,

derives pleasure; abhyasat, owing to habit, due to frequent

repetition; and in the experinece of which joy one nigacchati,

certainly attains; duhkhantam, the cessation of sorrow-.

18:37. That which is like poison in the beginning, but comparable to

nectar in the end, and which, arises from the purity of one's

intellect-that joy is spoken of as born of sattva.

Yat, that joy which is; iva, like; visam, poison, a source of pain;

agre, in the beginning-when it first comes in the early stages of

(acquisition) of knowledge, detachment, meditation and absorption,

since they involve great struggle; but amrtopamam, comparable to

nectar; pariname, in the end, when it arises from the maturity of

knowledge, detachment, etc.; and which atma-buddhi-prasadajam, arises

from the purity (prasada), trasparence like water, of one's intellect

(atma-buddhi); tat, that; sukham, joy; is proktam, spoken of, by the

learned ones ;as sattvikam, born of sattva. Or, the phrase atma-

buddhi-prasadajam may mean 'arising from the high degree of clearness

of that atma-buddhi (knowledge of or connected with the Self)';

therefore it is born of sattva.

----

 

15:15. And I am seated in the hearts of all. From Me are memory,

knowledge and their loss. I alone am the object to be known through

all the Vedas; I am also the originator of the Vedanta, and I Myself

am the knower of the Vedas.

And aham, I, as the Self; san-nivistah, am seated; hrdi, in the

hearts, in the intellects; sarvasya, of all creatures. Therefore,

with regard to all the creatures, mattah, from Me, from the Self; are

Smrtih, memory; jnanam, knowledge; and their apohanam, loss.

The knowledge and memory of these creatures who perform good deeds

come from Me in accordance with the good deeds; similarly, the loss,

deterioration, of memory and knowledge of those who perform evil

deeds comes from Me in accordance with the evil deeds.

Aham eva, I alone, the supreme Self; am the vedyah, object to be

known; sarvaih, through all; vedaih, the Vedas. I am also the vedanta-

krt, the originator of the Vedanta, i.e., the source of the

traditional school of the teachings of Vedanta; and aham eva, I

Myself; am the veda-vit, knower of the Vedas, the knower of the

teachings of the Vedas.

---

 

10:42. Or, on the other hand, what is the need of your knowing this

extensively, O Arjuna? I remain sustaining this whole creation in a

special way with a part (of Myself).

Athava, or, on the other hand; kim, what is the need; of tava

jnatena, your knowing; etena bahuna, this extensively-but

imcompletely-in the above manner, O Arjuna? You listen to this

subject that is going to be stated in its fullness: Aham, I; sthitah,

remain; vistabhya, sustaining, supporting, holding firmly, in a

special way; idam, this; krtsnam, whole; jagat, creation; ekamsena,

by a part, by a foot [The Universe is called a foot of His by virtue

of His having the limiting adjunct of being its efficient and

material cause.] (of Myself), i.e. as the Self of all things [As the

material and the efficient cause of all things]. The Vedic text, 'All

beings form a foot of His' (Rg., Pu. Su. 10.90.3; Tai. Ar. 3.12.3)

support this. [A Form constituted by the whole of creation has been

presented in this chapter for meditation. Thereby the unqualified

transcendental Reality, implied by the word tat (in tattva-masi) and

referred to by the latter portion of the Commentator's quotation (viz

tripadasyamrtam divi: The immortal three-footed One is established in

His own effulgence), becomes established.]

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

 

 

 

advaitin, ken knight <anirvacaniya> wrote:

>

> --- Benjamin <orion777ben> wrote:

> >

>

> > An anonymous list member just commented to me that

> As I began, `This is the advaitin site, Jim, but not

> as we know it.' If I am taking the wrong approach then

> can the moderators please let me know, although my own

> personal measure will be applied when we reach the

> second stage of the study and when people have a

> chance to look at the use of mAyA in the Vedas.

[Guest guest]

--- advaitins <advaitins wrote:

> Namaste Kenji,

>

> We could not have wished for a better

> expositor than you for

> this subject!

>

> We would not want to hamper your approach in

> any way

> whatsoever, for you have the experience of many

> years in explaining

> this.

>

> I derive great satisfaction in the sober

> advice of the Gita,

> in the following verses: 18:37; 15:15; 10:42

>

> Gita

>

> 18:36. Now hear from Me, O scion of the Bharata

> dynasty, as regards

> the three kinds of joy: That in which one delights

> owing to habit,

> and certainly attains the cessation of sorrows; [s.

> and S.S. take the

> second line of this verse along with the next verse

> referring to

> sattvika happiness.-Tr.]

> Idanim, now; srnu, hear; me, from Me i.e. be

> attentive to what I say;

> tu, as regards; the trividham, three kinds of;

> sukham, joy, O scion

> of the Bharata dynasty. Yatra, that in which;

> ramate, one delights,

> derives pleasure; abhyasat, owing to habit, due to

> frequent

> repetition; and in the experinece of which joy one

> nigacchati,

> certainly attains; duhkhantam, the cessation of

> sorrow-.

> 18:37. That which is like poison in the beginning,

> but comparable to

> nectar in the end, and which, arises from the purity

> of one's

> intellect-that joy is spoken of as born of sattva.

> Yat, that joy which is; iva, like; visam, poison, a

> source of pain;

> agre, in the beginning-when it first comes in the

> early stages of

> (acquisition) of knowledge, detachment, meditation

> and absorption,

> since they involve great struggle; but amrtopamam,

> comparable to

> nectar; pariname, in the end, when it arises from

> the maturity of

> knowledge, detachment, etc.; and which

> atma-buddhi-prasadajam, arises

> from the purity (prasada), trasparence like water,

> of one's intellect

> (atma-buddhi); tat, that; sukham, joy; is proktam,

> spoken of, by the

> learned ones ;as sattvikam, born of sattva. Or, the

> phrase atma-

> buddhi-prasadajam may mean 'arising from the high

> degree of clearness

> of that atma-buddhi (knowledge of or connected with

> the Self)';

> therefore it is born of sattva.

>

----

>

> 15:15. And I am seated in the hearts of all. From Me

> are memory,

> knowledge and their loss. I alone am the object to

> be known through

> all the Vedas; I am also the originator of the

> Vedanta, and I Myself

> am the knower of the Vedas.

> And aham, I, as the Self; san-nivistah, am seated;

> hrdi, in the

> hearts, in the intellects; sarvasya, of all

> creatures. Therefore,

> with regard to all the creatures, mattah, from Me,

> from the Self; are

> Smrtih, memory; jnanam, knowledge; and their

> apohanam, loss.

> The knowledge and memory of these creatures who

> perform good deeds

> come from Me in accordance with the good deeds;

> similarly, the loss,

> deterioration, of memory and knowledge of those who

> perform evil

> deeds comes from Me in accordance with the evil

> deeds.

> Aham eva, I alone, the supreme Self; am the vedyah,

> object to be

> known; sarvaih, through all; vedaih, the Vedas. I am

> also the vedanta-

> krt, the originator of the Vedanta, i.e., the source

> of the

> traditional school of the teachings of Vedanta; and

> aham eva, I

> Myself; am the veda-vit, knower of the Vedas, the

> knower of the

> teachings of the Vedas.

>

---

>

> 10:42. Or, on the other hand, what is the need of

> your knowing this

> extensively, O Arjuna? I remain sustaining this

> whole creation in a

> special way with a part (of Myself).

> Athava, or, on the other hand; kim, what is the

> need; of tava

> jnatena, your knowing; etena bahuna, this

> extensively-but

> imcompletely-in the above manner, O Arjuna? You

> listen to this

> subject that is going to be stated in its fullness:

> Aham, I; sthitah,

> remain; vistabhya, sustaining, supporting, holding

> firmly, in a

> special way; idam, this; krtsnam, whole; jagat,

> creation; ekamsena,

> by a part, by a foot [The Universe is called a foot

> of His by virtue

> of His having the limiting adjunct of being its

> efficient and

> material cause.] (of Myself), i.e. as the Self of

> all things [As the

> material and the efficient cause of all things]. The

> Vedic text, 'All

> beings form a foot of His' (Rg., Pu. Su. 10.90.3;

> Tai. Ar. 3.12.3)

> support this. [A Form constituted by the whole of

> creation has been

> presented in this chapter for meditation. Thereby

> the unqualified

> transcendental Reality, implied by the word tat (in

> tattva-masi) and

> referred to by the latter portion of the

> Commentator's quotation (viz

> tripadasyamrtam divi: The immortal three-footed One

> is established in

> His own effulgence), becomes established.]

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunder

>

>

>

>

> advaitin, ken knight

> <anirvacaniya> wrote:

> >

> > --- Benjamin <orion777ben> wrote:

> > >

> >

> > > An anonymous list member just commented to me

> that

>

> > As I began, `This is the advaitin site, Jim, but

> not

> > as we know it.' If I am taking the wrong approach

> then

> > can the moderators please let me know, although my

> own

> > personal measure will be applied when we reach the

> > second stage of the study and when people have a

> > chance to look at the use of mAyA in the Vedas.

>

>

 

 

=====

‘From this Supreme Self are all these, indeed, breathed forth.’

 

 

 

 

 

 

Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Messenger.

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[Guest guest]

--- advaitins <advaitins wrote:

>...... for you have the experience of many

> years in explaining

> this.

 

Namaste Sunderji,

 

Firstly thank you for the wonderful sruti (smriti if

the Gita is to be so designated). Well chosen and

very apt in its universality.

 

Please may I refer to your above statement for I do

not want this site's membership to be misled. My study

of the Rgveda is limited to two years at the most. I

would not have dared to undertake such a task if it

were not for your request.

 

If anything of value is to come out of the postings it

is through the graceful presence and direction of Sri

Anandamayi Ma and Dr Gopinath Kaviraj. However, I do

also need those of you born into this tradition to

guide and correct.

Also, I fully respect the position of the orthodox who

would suggest that as a mleccha I should not study

such texts. However the prarabhda of this lifetime

has had some strange events to work out, one being a

vasana impelling a profound love of South Asian wisdom

teaching.

 

Earlier today I sent the following to someone who had

contacted me off list but I think that maybe it is of

value to all.

Swami Chinmayananda writes this in his commentary on

the second sloka of the Kaivalya Upanishad:

'Thus Brahmavidya, the Science of Life, is to be

understood according to the stanza," by means of faith

(Sraddha), devotion (Bhakti) and meditation (Dhyana)".

The statement is very significant. Faith has been

described as "that faculty of the human intellect by

which it can reflect and understand the deeper imports

of the scriptural declarations and there-after

assimilate those ideas into the very texture of the

intellect". This power of understanding and

assimilating new ideas, so as to evolve itself, is

called Sraddha. Thus essentially, Sraddha is the

function of the intellect. It is the power of

Self-education.'

 

As we know, the root of Sraddha is Sru, to listen and

it is the mindfulness of listening that we need to

understand the sUktas of the RgVeda.

 

I will post the next step in the mAyA in the Vedas

series later tonight.

 

Thank you for your encouragement,

 

Ken Knight

 

=====

‘From this Supreme Self are all these, indeed, breathed forth.’

 

 

 

 

 

 

Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Messenger.

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