June topic For Professor VK again and Adi-ji and others

[Guest guest]

Namaste Every One who comes this way,

Either Professor Krishnamurthy of those powers that

pull the strings are guiding us nicely towards our

main topic of mAyA in the Vedas. As I have said

several times, I am in need of those who have been

brought up in the tradition and have it all ¡®in the

heart¡¯. So thank you for the question as to the Vedic

source of:

 

"kim-svid-vanaM ka u sa vRkshha AsIt

yato dyAvA pRthvI nishhTa-takshhuh

manIshhiNo manasA pRcchate dutat

yad-adhyatishhTat bhuvanAni dhArayan

brahma-vanaM brahma sa vRkshha AsIt

yato dyAvA pRthvI nishhTa-takshhuh

manIshhiNo manasA vibravImi vaH

brahma-adhyatishhTad-bhuvanAni dhArayan

 

Last evening I posted some refs:

RV VI.9.6 which had come to mind with this question

although it is not immediately apparent why.

RV.X.31, and RV X.81 which has the first four lines.

Then I found myself in Ramanuja territory with all 8

lines. But I could see myself being led into an

advaita, dvaita, vishistadvaita dialogue and I do not

want to go into that forest at the moment, valid as it

is in later philosophy.

The problem for me comes with the ¡®brahma-vanam

brahma¡¯ if we are to accept the thesis that BrahmaNA

in RV is to do with the ¡®Word of the praise song¡¯

and a later development into the creator Brahma. As I

could not find any similar texts to the last four

lines, in the RV, I decided to stick with the first

four lines as we have enough there, directly related

to the June topic, to keep us going for weeks.

 

We must remember also that this is all being sparked

by the use of ¡®tadvanam¡¯ in the Kena Upanishad (

IV.7) as a meditation for those in need of a quality

on which to focus the attention.

As soon as I had found that Professor Krishnamurthy¡¯s

question had led to X.81 I knew that he was leading me

into the deepest oceans while I am still learning to

swim. This hymn is dedicated to Vishvadevas and the

Rshi has the same name, it is in the triSTubh metre.

It is one of a set of ¡®creation hymns¡¯ and is

directly related to our June topic, drawing together

some of what we have discussed already and preparing

the way for some future posts.

 

May I remind us of these points already presented:

power as manifesting through a continual emanation

witnessed by those with ears to hear and eyes to see,

the question of the poets as to their place in this

emanation, the emanation as yajna, the centrality of

Word and speech in this emanation, and the two birds

in the tree.

 

May I please direct you to this site where you will

find some valuable information and references for

further individual study.

"http://www.vedah.com/org/literature/yajurVeda/creation.asp

At this site Dr Shastry begins by saying :

¡®Creation: The idea is mentioned in great detail in

several anuv¨¡k¨¡s. There is the correspondence

between the creation at the cosmic level and the mode

of manifestation of the cosmic powers in an

individual.¡¯

 

Now that is the crucial statement for us for the link

between the inner, outer and all-pervading as

discussed already. Before we get to RV.X.81.4 can we

look at X.81.2 in which the poet asks.

k¨ªM svid aasiid adhiSTha¨¢nam aar¨¢mbhaNaM katam¨¢t

svit katha¨¢siit |

y¨¢to bhu¨²miM jan¨¢yan vishv¨¢karmaa v¨ª dya¨¢m

a¨²rNon mahina¨¢ vishv¨¢cakSaaH ||

 

¡®What was the place whereon he took his station? What

was it that supported him? How was it?

Whence Visvakarman, seeing all, producing the earth,

with mighty power disclosed the heavens.¡¯

Note the use of ¡®mahinA¡¯ which is that immense power

expanding by will, by a magical might. We are on the

way to understanding mAyA in the Rgveda but more on

that later. Then we get ¡®vishv¨¢cakSaaH¡¯. Who is

directing this study for that is the central feature

for my pre-written first posting on mAyA due next week

so it must stay in the future.

 

Now. RVX.81.3 is directly related to the famous

Purusha Suktam, RV.X.90 which Tennyson seemed to use

in his poem ¡®The Great Pantheism.¡¯ (It is on the Net

if you want to Google it). I would suggest that this

is why the later writers attached the concepts of

these lines to Brahma.

RV X.81.4 is the direct quote:

k¨ªM svid v¨¢naM k¨¢ u s¨¢ vRkS¨¢ aasa y¨¢to

dya¨¢vaapRthivi¨ª niSTatakS¨²H |

m¨¢niiSiNo m¨¢nasaa pRch¨¢t¨¦d u t¨¢d y¨¢d

adhy¨¢tiSThad bh¨²vanaani dhaar¨¢yan ||

 

¡®What was the tree, what wood in sooth produced it,

from which they fashioned out the earth and heaven?

Ye thoughtful men inquire within your spirit whereon

he stood when he established all things.¡¯

Are we now back in the same tree as in RV I,164? This

is also by ViSvedevas but n ow it is dedicated to :

ViSvedevas, vAk, waters, soma, agni, sUrya, vayu,

time, sarasvatI,sAdhyas, sarasvAn or sUrya. An

abundance.

May I requote the relevant verses:

dva¨¢ suparNa¨¢ say¨²jaa s¨¢khaayaa samaan¨¢M vRkS¨¢m

p¨¢ri Sasvajaate |

t¨¢yor any¨¢H p¨ªppalaM svaadv ¨¢tty ¨¢nashnann any¨®

abh¨ª caakashiiti ||

 

¡®Two Birds with fair wings, knit with bonds of

friendship, in the same sheltering tree have found a

refuge.

One of the twain eats the sweet Fig-tree's fruitage;

the other eating not regardeth only.¡¯

y¨¢traa suparNa¨¢ amR'tasya bhaag¨¢m ¨¢nimeSaM

vid¨¢thaabhisv¨¢ranti |

in¨® v¨ªshvasya bh¨²vanasya gopa¨¢H s¨¢ maa dhi¨ªraH

pa¨¢kam ¨¢tra¨¢ vivesha ||

 

¡®Where those fine Birds hymn ceaselessly their

portion of life eternal, and the sacred synods,

There is the Universe's mighty Keeper, who, wise, hath

entered into me the simple.¡¯

y¨¢smin vRkS¨¦ madhv¨¢daH suparNa¨¢ nivish¨¢nte

s¨²vate ca¨¢dhi v¨ªshve |

t¨¢sy¨¦d aahuH p¨ªppalaM svaadv ¨¢gre t¨¢n n¨®n nashad

y¨¢H pit¨¢raM n¨¢ v¨¦da ||

 

¡®The, tree whereon the fine Birds eat the sweetness,

where they all rest and procreate their offspring,-

Upon its top they say the fig is luscious none gaineth

it who knoweth not the Father.¡¯

Back to X.81.4

 

¡®What wood produced it?¡¯ The use of wood as the

material of creation occurs in many traditions;

clearly, for someone looking around the tree is not

just a beautiful form but it is the source of the wood

for the fire, it extends into the heavens, it is

mighty and produces the forests etc etc. From this

wood ¡®the powers manifested earth and heaven¡¯ but

what that actually mean cannot be discerned by

intellect alone. Notice how the Rishis tells us that:

¡®Ye thoughtful men inquire within your spirit whereon

he stood when he established all things.¡¯

Remember that Indra stands in where once the YakSa had

stood:

Kena Up. III.12:

¡®In that very place, tasmin eva AkASe, the ¡®eva¡¯

emphasising the point, the charming woman (umA)

appeared in answer to his question, ¡®What is this

YakSa?¡¯

May we go back a few verses Kena Up. II.5.

¡®If one has realised here, then there is truth; if he

has not realised here, then there is great

destruction. The wise, once having realised ¡®Brahman)

in all beings, and having turned away from this world,

become immortal.¡¯

In acknowledging the beauty of the tree and the forest

but not getting attached to the fruit on the lower

branches the Father is known and the fruit at the top

of the tree. The sweetness of immortality is realised.

I think I had better stop that line of thought there

as Millie the Border Collie is ready for her walk.

First though. Recalling mahinA above. Later we will

be looking at the story of the Rbhus who fashioned

their chariot out of ¡®wood¡¯ before elevation to the

heavens. Therefore this will be of use in relation to

ViSvakarman.

At the level of what we call ¡®nature¡¯ we have

Tvastri, the divine artisan who, according to the

atharva veda is ¡®in the beginning the counterpart of

the waters. He receives the epithet Savitri, the solar

deity. He is supAni ( the skilful-handed one),

omniform and faithful to the law (RtAvan). ¡®He¡¯

combines both the female and the male generative

power. Presiding over birth, he places the life seed

in all creatures, shapes all forms, adorns heaven and

Earth with the multivarious forms, forges the

thunderbolt of Indra, fashions the soma cup for the

gods and sharpens the axe for Brahmanaspati.

It is the energising nature of ¡®his¡¯ (savitA) that

is the vivifying power of Savitri to whom the GAyatrI

mantra is dedicated. ViSvakarman takes on these

duties, among others, and such differentiation causes

the confusion of deities so we have ViSvadevas

writing, RV X.164 46:

They call him Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, and he is

heavenly nobly-winged Garutman.

To what is One, sages give many a title they call it

Agni, Yama, Matarisvan.

 

Indeed the Vedas are endless but Ken is not so I must

end with:

Rc¨® akS¨¢re param¨¦ vy¨°man y¨¢smin deva¨¢ ¨¢dhi

v¨ªshve niSed¨²H |

y¨¢s t¨¢n n¨¢ v¨¦da k¨ªm Rca¨¢ kariSyati y¨¢ ¨ªt

t¨¢d vid¨²s t¨¢ im¨¦ s¨¢m aasate ||

 

¡®Upon what syllable of holy praise-song, as twere

their highest heaven, the Gods repose them,-

Who knows not this, what will he do with praise-song?

But they who know it well sit here assembled.¡¯

 

 

Thank you for your direction,

 

Ken Knight

 

 

 

 

=====

‘From this Supreme Self are all these, indeed, breathed forth.’

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

advaitin, ken knight <anirvacaniya>

wrote:

>

> May I please direct you to this site where you will

> find some valuable information and references for

> further individual study.

> "http://www.vedah.com/org/literature/yajurVeda/creation.asp

> At this site Dr Shastry begins by saying :

> ¡®Creation: The idea is mentioned in great detail in

> several anuv¨¡k¨¡s. There is the correspondence

> between the creation at the cosmic level and the mode

> of manifestation of the cosmic powers in an

> individual.¡¯

>

> Now that is the crucial statement for us for the link

> between the inner, outer and all-pervading as

> discussed already. Before we get to RV.X.81.4 can we

> look at X.81.2 in which the poet asks.

 

 

Namaste, Ken-ji

 

Your enthusiasm is infectious! Thank you for giving me the right

reference to Kapali Shastry's site above. It is going to give me a

lot of enjoyable homework, for finding the correlates of the

taittiriya samhita mantras that I know and the corresponding mantras

of the Rg Veda. Thanks once again.

 

Regarding RV X.81, I notice that it is where the famous

mantra "vishvatash-cakshhuruta vishvato mukho ..." is occurring. My

father used to quote this along with the 'brahma-vanam' quote. Since

you have already planned to discuss it in the future posts, I will

not dabble in it now.

 

Incidentally, in your latest post, the fonts have got fumbled up. Is

it a software failure at your end or at this 'advaitin' end?

 

praNAms to all students of Rg Veda

profvk