June topic: mAyA in the Vedas: RV. X..177/ re-incarnation

[Guest guest]

--- Sunder Hattangadi <sunderh wrote:

> The theme of Mandala 4 is not in fact

> re-incarnation, but

> the seeds are evident: ref. 1:7; 2:17; 26:1; 27:1.

> Of course, your

> insight may well vary.

 

Namaste Sunderji,

Thank you for this. It has given me an interesting

study Madathil may have extra luggage as he tries to

work out the Lucknow Syndrome but you have certainly

got some extra moderating to do here. Fortunately the

rishis have no problem with 'Aham'. Again, apologies

for length but there is no point in skimping such

beautiful texts.

Best wishes Ken Knight:

 

I think that these references are very

relevant to the underlying theme of the mystery of The

One becoming many and YAska’s direction on

understanding the Rgvedic Samhita.

While I am quite sure that attachment to action and

forms, through the ahamkara, results in a cycle of

what could be called re-birth and re-death, I do not

see how this would fit into a non-dual teaching unless

we correctly understand the purpose of division. That

is my bias which may be clouding my understanding of

these references.

To me they are primarily about division and the

unchanging essence through which division appears, in

particular, what I tend to think of as the ‘triple

fire’.

 

But first may I state what I know you know of but may

be of use to others.

 

The rishis describe three planes of existence each

with three presiding deities:

dyuloka, celestial sphere: savitR or sUrya (sun),

antarikshaloka, intermediary space: indra or vAyu

(air)

bhUrloka, terrestrial sphere: agni (fire)

 

Each of these three magically divides into eleven

giving thirty-three gods in all although, as we have

said many times, there is no doubt that the rishis

were aware of one Supreme Power.

RV.I.139.11

yé devaaso divy ékaadasha sthá pRthivyaám ádhy

ékaadasha sthá |

apsukSíto mahinaíkaadasha sthá té devaaso yajñám imáM

juSadhvam ||

 

‘O ye Eleven Gods whose home is heaven, O ye Eleven

who make earth your dwelling,

Ye who with might, Eleven, live in waters, accept this

sacrifice, O Gods, with pleasure.’

 

And as history progresses these are sub-divided yet

again.

 

Your first reference, RV IV.1.7 reads:

trír asya taá paramaá santi satyaá spaarhaá devásya

jánimaany agnéH |

ananté antáH páriviita aágaac chúciH shukró aryó

rórucaanaH ||

 

‘Three are those births, the true, the most exalted,

eagerly longed-for, of the God, of Agni.

He came invested in the boundless region, pure,

radiant, friendly, mightily resplendent.’

 

So to me, this is about the ‘triple fire’ inasmuch as

it refers to agni taking form at each of the three

spheres. Although agni presides over bhUrloka,

terrestrial sphere, as the offspring of Tad Ekam agni

is ever-present at all three spheres.

 

So we read RV. X.45.1 :

divás pári prathamáM jajñe agnír asmád dvitiíyam pári

jaatávedaaH |

tRtiíyam apsú nRmáNaa ájasram índhaana enaM jarate

svaadhiíH ||

 

‘First Agni sprang to life from out of Heaven: the

second time from us came Jatavedas.

Thirdly the Manly-souled was in the waters. The pious

lauds and kindles him the Eternal.’

 

In a stanza that will remind you of the ‘I am’ sayings

in the Bhagavad Gita we read, RV I.70.2:

 

aá daívyaani vrataá cikitvaán aá maánuSasya jánasya

jánma ||

 

‘He who is germ of waters, germ of woods, germ of all

things that move not and that move,-

To him even in the rock and in the house: Immortal

One, he cares for all mankind.’

 

So agni is the essence of all

In earlier postings I had begun with mysterious words

about agni as the ‘Child of the Floods’ which only

makes sense when we know of the reference to the earth

and sky as oceans. RV.III. 112,13:.

 

akró ná babhríH samithé mahiínaaM didRkSéyaH suunáve

bhaáRjiikaH |

úd usríyaa jánitaa yó jajaánaapaáM gárbho nR'tamo

yahvó agníH ||

 

‘As keen supporter where great waters gather,

light-shedder whom the brood rejoice to look on;

He who begat, and will beget, the dawnlights, most

manly, Child of Floods, is youthful Agni.’

 

apaáM gárbhaM darshatám óSadhiinaaM vánaa jajaana

subhágaa víruupam |

devaásash cin mánasaa sáM hí jagmúH pániSThaM jaatáM

tavásaM duvasyan ||

 

‘Him, varied in his form, the lovely Infant of floods

and plants the blessed wood hath gendered.

Gods even, moved in spirit, came around him, and

served him at his birth, the Strong, the Wondrous.’

 

So agni is embryonic in the waters, their essence as

it were, and his birth is in accordance with the

controlling and binding power of Rta which he fulfils

( manifests through the fire held sacred in our

homes): RV III.5.3

 

ádhaayy agnír maánuSiiSu vikSv àpaáM gárbho mitrá

Rténa saádhan |

aá haryató yajatáH saánv asthaad ábhuud u vípro hávyo

matiinaám ||

 

’Amid men's homes hath Agni been established,

fulfilling with the Law, Friend, germ of waters.

Loved and adored, the height he hath ascended, the

Singer, object of our invocations.’

 

And finally, in a stanza reminiscent of the nAsadIya

sUkta, we read RV X 5 7

 

ásac ca sác ca paramé vyòman dákSasya jánmann áditer

upásthe |

agnír ha naH prathamajaá Rtásya puúrva aáyuni

vRSabhásh ca dhenúH ||

 

‘Not Being, Being in the highest heaven, in Aditi's

bosom and in Daksa's birthplace,

Is Agni, our first-born of Holy Order, the Milch-cow

and the Bull in life's beginning.’

 

Now with all these words it is too easy to push agni

away into some context other than our own but that

would be an error for agni is to be found crouched in

the cave of the heart when we ‘form the mantras

there’.

RV. I.67.2

kSémo ná saadhúH krátur ná bhadró bhúvat svaadhiír

hótaa havyavaáT ||

 

‘He, bearing in his hand all manly might, crouched in

the cavern, struck the gods with fear.

Men filled with understanding find him there, when

they have sung prayers formed within their heart.’

 

So, after all that explanation Sunderji, I think that

your first reference in RV IV.1.7.is to do with these

three forms of agni in the process of creation: apAm

napAt in the flood of the unmanifest, before creation,

as vaiSvAnara in the heavens as the light that shines

for all men and as jAtavedas on earth, the knower of

beings.

This ‘triple fire’ is visible to us in the observable

cosmos as the sun in the sky, lightning in the air and

fire on earth. As these are coeval I would not give

these the name re-incarnations.

 

trír asya taá paramaá santi satyaá spaarhaá devásya

jánimaany agnéH |

ananté antáH páriviita aágaac chúciH shukró aryó

rórucaanaH ||

 

‘Three are those births, the true, the most exalted,

eagerly longed-for, of the God, of Agni.

He came invested in the boundless region, pure,

radiant, friendly, mightily resplendent.’

 

Your next reference is quite a challenge and I think

makes more sense when paired with its preceding verse,

hence RV. IV. 2.16,17

 

ádhaa yáthaa naH pitáraH páraasaH pratnaáso agna Rtám

aashuSaaNaáH shúciíd ayan |

diídhitim ukthashaásaH kSaámaa bhindánto aruNiír ápa

vran ||

 

’ As in the days of old our ancient Fathers, speeding

the work of holy worship, Agni,

Sought pure light and devotion, singing praises; they

cleft the ground and made red Dawns apparent.’

 

sukármaaNaH surúco devayántó .ayo ná devaá jánimaa

dhámantaH |

shucánto agníM vavRdhánta índram uurváM gávyam

pariSádanto agman ||

 

’Gods, doing holy acts, devout, resplendent, smelting

like ore their human generations.

Enkindling Agni and exalting Indra, they came

encompassing the stall of cattle.’

 

That ‘smelting like ore’ translation reminds me of

tvashTR, the divine artisan,’skillful-handed’,

presiding over birth. I am running out of time so may

I return to that one later as there may be more in the

stanza than I first saw….....in fact there must be.

Your next two references again remind me of the ‘I am’

statements of the Bhagavad Gita:

RV.IV 26 1

ahám mánur abhavaM suúryash caaháM kakSiívaaM+ R'Sir

asmi vípraH |

aháM kútsam aarjuneyáM ny R`ñje .aháM kavír ushánaa

páshyataa maa ||

 

‘I was aforetime Manu, I was Surya: I am the sage

Kaksivan, holy singer.

Kutsa the son of Arjuni I master. I am the sapient

Usana behold me.’

 

RV.IV 27.1

gárbhe nú sánn ánv eSaam avedam aháM devaánaaM

jánimaani víshvaa |

shatám maa púra aáyasiir arakSann ádha shyenó javásaa

nír adiiyam ||

 

‘ As I lay within the womb, considered all generations

of these Gods in order.

A hundred iron fortresses confined me but forth I flew

with rapid speed a Falcon. ‘

 

So Sunderji, I think that we may say that these

stanzas provide the basis for the teaching of the

Bhagavad Gita IV: 1-9

The Blessed Lord spoke:

‘I proclaimed the imperishable yoga to Vivasvat;

Vivasvat communicated to Manu, and Manu imparted it to

Ikshvaku.

Thus received by succession, the royal seers knew

this; after a long time here on earth, this yoga has

been lost, Arjuna.

This ancient yoga is today declared by Me to you,

since you are my devotee and my friend. The secret is

supreme indeed.’

Arjuna spoke: ‘Your birth was later, the birth of

Vivasvat earlier; how should I understand this, that

You declared it in the beginning?’

The Blessed lord spoke:

‘Many of My births have passed away, and also yours,

Arjuna. I know them all; you do not know them Arjuna.

Although I am birthless and My nature is imperishable,

although I am the lord of all beings, yet, by

controlling My own material nature, I come into being

by My own power.

Whenever a decrease in righteousness exists, Arjune,

and there is a rising up of unrighteousness, then I

manifest Myself.

For the protection of the good and the destruction of

evil doers, for the sake of establishing

righteousness, I am born in every age.

He who knows in truth, My divine birth and action,

having left the body, he is not reborn; he comes to

Me, Arjuna.’

 

Given our non-dual interest and the vision of the

Vedic seers as above we can see how these verses

accord wholly with the Rgvedic mantras and the concept

of ‘re-incarnation’ has a different meaning at each

of the three levels of interpretation.

 

 

 

‘From this Supreme Self are all these, indeed,

breathed forth.’

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

=====

‘From this Supreme Self are all these, indeed, breathed forth.’