Guest guest Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Our most beloved Ken Knightji ! For a little over four weeks now, you held this audience 'spellbound ' with your brilliant exposition of MaYa in the vedas. You managed to convert Curious onlookers into 'serious' students of Veda in a brief period of time - and you did all this effortlessly in a 'subtle' but sure manner ... 1) first, by tracing the etymology of the words !explaining the 'root' of the words and their derivatives and compounds. and also explaining how shift in meanings can occur for the same word by the clever use of Sandhis! i am still waiting for someone to answer your query on MAYABHEDA ! IS IT MAYA +BHEDA OR MAYA + ABHEDA? (Sunderji, can you solve this riddle?) 2) Secondly, i loved the way you quoted the various hymns by giving appropriate references for example how the word 'MAYA' occurs in the various brahmanas of the rg veda and in what context the word is used ! Like a skilled magician you unveiled the decpetive power of Maya in VEda. 3) For the longest time, i have heard Vedas being recited and chanted and the vedic rituals performed ! this is the first time, i have read all the vedic deities like 'agni', 'indra'. 'ashwins' , 'rbhus' etc explained in such great detail and in such an interesting way. And one member Sridhar pointed out rather honestly, Indra was always considered a 'pompous' god full of false ego ! But, by narrating the story of Indra and Vrtra , you brought out the transcedental meaning of this ancient God, Indra! 4) I must confess that at times your presentation was a bit too scholarly with generous quotations of sanskrit hymns but the important point is you did explain the meanings in a detailed manner so that even a layman can understand and appreciate the beauty of these classic hymns. 5) Your citing of authors and the bibiliographic references was also very much appreciated! on my own, i would have never read Griffith, Sayana, Raimond Pannikar, Wilson , Sastry, Kashyap etc.... as you have rightly said, There is no conclusion to the study of vedas- this is an eternal study - a continuous exploration and on going journey regarding the Cosmic Order (Rtm) and fascinating ! 6) who said vedas are 'dry' and boring? it all depends on how it is presented. By narrating stories and introducing 'humor' , even vedic hymns can taste like the celestial drink 'soma' ! 6) Krishna says in the Bhagvat Gita - of all the vedas, i am the sama veda meaning thereby that it is the best. But by your spectacular presentation of rig veda , one can say rig veda is in no way inferior! 7)And you mentioned about hindus being born in the tradition and hinted that they are fortunate ! this is partially true. But i habve read with my own eyes how the 'purusha sukta' hymn has been translated by the hindus in seceral different ways to either 'favor' or 'criticize' the caste system! But the purusha sukta and the sri sukta hymns are full of beauty and lyricism and their esoteric meanings are lost in clumsy translations! 8) But the beauty of any presentation is it should create a appetite for more of the same ! are we hungry for more of Maya in the vedas? the answer is a YES!!! Kenji, you can pick up the thread from where you left of after your return from the trip to the mountains! 9) and finally, it was nice to see you acknowledging the responses of all the members ( including me) with grace and humility. also, taking the time to answer any questions that arose in the course of this presentation! 10) all in all, a very enriching experience! finally, you had mentioned about the hearing of a 'sound' in your inner ear during your Indian sojourn and identified it as the sound of 'veena' the cestial instrument held by Saraswati Sevi, the Goddess of Learning! Some of these names of Sree Saraswati devi! 1) Jihvagravasini- one who resides on the TONGUE. 2) Kavijihvagravasini- one who resides on the tongue of poets. 3) Vani - great speaker 4) Smritasaki- one who has great memory 5) Pratibha - one who possesses great intelligence in closing , here are hymns from rig veda honoring Saraswati A Hymn To Saraswati, Rig Veda 1:3, Verses 10-12 May Sarasvati, the purifier rich in wealth - the intellect Her treasure - desire our sacrifice. Inspirer of the truthful, rouser of the noble minded, may Sarasvati accept our worship. Sarasvati, mighty ocean, she rouses up with her light And brightens all intellects. Saraswati RV 7:95 THIS stream Sarasvati with fostering current comes forth, our sure defence, our fort of iron. As on a car, the flood flows on, surpassing in majesty and might all other waters. Pure in her course from mountains to the ocean, alone of streams Sarasvati hath listened. Thinking of wealth and the great world of creatures, she poured for Nahusa her milk and fatness. Friendly to man he grew among the women, a strong young Steer amid the Holy Ladies. He gives the fleet steed to our wealthy princes, and decks their bodies for success in battle. May this Sarasvati be pleased and listen at this our sacrifice, auspicious Lady, When we with reverence, on our knees, implore her close-knit to wealth, most kind to those she loveth. These offerings have ye made with adoration: say this, Sarasvati, and accept our praises; And, placing us under thy dear protection, may we approach thee, as a tree, for shelter. For thee, O Blest Sarasvati, Vasistha hath here unbarred the doors d sacred Order. Wax, Bright One, and give strength to him who lauds thee. Preserve us evermore, ye Gods, with blessings. ********************************************************************** In eternal gratitude ! enjoy the beauty , the majesty and grandeur of the Mountains! 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Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 As adiji rightly said, you left us all spell-bound!! I have a small request Kenji. After your trip to the mountains, could you please take us on a similar enchanting trip through Shri sha~Nkara's 'upadeshasahaShri'? It would be a real blessing for us all. Hari Om - "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16 > > For a little over four weeks now, you held this > audience 'spellbound ' with your brilliant exposition of MaYa in the > vedas. > > You managed to convert Curious onlookers into 'serious' students > of Veda in a brief period of time - and you did all this > effortlessly in a 'subtle' but sure manner ... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 --- Ranjeet Sankar <thefinalsearch wrote: Namaste Ranjit, > After your trip to the mountains, could you please > take us on a similar > enchanting trip through Shri sha~Nkara's > 'upadeshasahaShri'? I am sure that there are many on this site who are better qualified than I to do this. When I previously began such postings...I think they are in the files section somewhere..I was posting three different translations of the shlokas for people to use in their own study. Translations always have different emphases and comparison can be useful. I was working through the prose section without any comment of my own. My own personal study later this summer will be of Up.Sa. 18.202. This relates to our June topic as I was then frequently pointing towards the importance of the triad of the revealed word, Sruti, direct experience,anubhava and reasoning, yukti. Shankara is here writing about the use of such sruti as 'Tat tvam asi'. The objection to him states, in 17.201,:'No concrete experience, like concrete satisfaction that follows from eating, can arise from the mere hearing of the sentence. And to analyse a sentence ( in the hope of getting a concrete experience from it ) is like trying to make milk pudding from cow dung.' Shankara replies: 'It is true that all sentences conveying information about the not-self yield abstract knowledge only. But it is not so with sentences about the inmost Self, for there are exceptions, as in the case of the one who realised he was the tenth.' This being a reference to the story of the tenth man not counting himself. Anybody who felt the heart open, at any single point in the recent Rgvedic study, will understand that. So from this point we could consider IshTa siddhi: 'Even verbal knowledge can be direct knowledge, because it can concern that which is immediately and directly known, as in the case of a human sentence proclaiming the self-luminosity of the Self.' There is a commentary on this by SatchidAnandendra, The Method of Vedanta p.725. You have got me going already. So I had better stop but leave you with Up.Sa. 17. 79-81, that sums up much of what I was trying to present in the June topic: 'Though not doing anything, the Self does everything. Though standing still, it outpaces those who run. As it appears through its incomprehensible power of mAyA to be omnipotent, it is thought to be manifold although in truth it is (homogenous), undergoes no birth ( and assumes no form). Being merely the Witness, I am the Self, non-dual, actionless, beyond the factors of action, causing the whole world to revolve by my mere proximity, like a magnet or like a king, being Myself the only Witness. One should dwell on the thought 'I am Absolute (Brahman), without attributes, actionless, constant, free from the pairs of opposites, free from all blemish, pure, enlightened, liberated.' Translation Alston. Aren't we lucky to have such teaching???? Ken Knight > It would be a real blessing for us all. > > Hari Om > > > - > "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16 > > > > > > For a little over four weeks now, you held this > > audience 'spellbound ' with your brilliant > exposition of MaYa in the > > vedas. > > > > You managed to convert Curious onlookers into > 'serious' students > > of Veda in a brief period of time - and you did > all this > > effortlessly in a 'subtle' but sure manner ... > > > > > > ===== ‘From this Supreme Self are all these, indeed, breathed forth.’ New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Namaste to All This is my Firt Posting so please excuse me for any mistakes.. I think it should be MAYA + ABHEDA, as this is gramaticaay correct. (A+A=AA sawarna deerga sandhi) In the second case MAYA +BHEDA it is (A+Ae I don't remember any sandhi. If it woyld have been A+E= Ae it might have been Guna) So I think it should be MAYA+ABHEDA I have read most of the Maya Series. which is posted by Ken, Thanks Ken I have really learnt a lot..from your analysis. I think the biggest Maya what we are encountering which rightly Krishna Says in the Great Bhagavat Gita..That we take results of our actions for ourselves.. I think we can come out of this MAYA which itself is created by lord, by the Gnana, the gnana of not attributing the results of our actions to ourself and whether success or failure attribute it to lord and by just doing the karma what we are supposed to do. I suppose this is the reason why we say Tat Sat Brahmaarpanamastu Thanks Prashanth.K 1) first, by tracing the etymology of the words !explaining the 'root' of the words and their derivatives and compounds. and also explaining how shift in meanings can occur for the same word by the clever use of Sandhis! i am still waiting for someone to answer your query on MAYABHEDA ! IS IT MAYA +BHEDA OR MAYA + ABHEDA? (Sunderji, can you solve this riddle?) ---- Cool Things Happen When Mac Users Meet! Join the community in Boston this July: www.macworldexpo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Thank you Prasanth for clarifying on maya+abheda! on another note ... I Have heard of 1)bheda shrutis 2)abheda shrutis 3) ghataka shrutis 'Two birds with similar qualities and attached to each other, reside in the same tree. One of them (Jivatma) eats the fruit (the results of his karma), whereas the other (Iswara or Brahman) shines, without eating the fruit." (example of bheda shruti) but there can be an 'abheda' interpretation also by advaitins. There is only One - abheda shruti and some passages from Brihadaranyaka Upanishad describe about the relationship between body, soul relationship - example of ghataka ! maybe someone will elaborate on these at a later date! thank you! my third post-sorry for exceeding my quota! advaitin, <prashanthkris@s...> wrote: > > > > Namaste to All > This is my Firt Posting so please excuse me for any mistakes.. > > I think it should be MAYA + ABHEDA, as this is gramaticaay correct. > (A+A=AA sawarna deerga sandhi) > > In the second case MAYA +BHEDA it is (A+Ae I don't remember any sandhi. If it woyld have been A+E= Ae it might have been Guna) > So I think it should be MAYA+ABHEDA > > I have read most of the Maya Series. which is posted by Ken, Thanks Ken I have really learnt a lot..from your analysis. > I think the biggest Maya what we are encountering which rightly Krishna Says in the Great Bhagavat Gita..That we take results of our > actions for ourselves.. I think we can come out of this MAYA which itself is created by lord, by the Gnana, the gnana of not attributing > the results of our actions to ourself and whether success or failure attribute it to lord and by just doing the karma what we are supposed > to do. > > I suppose this is the reason why we say Tat Sat Brahmaarpanamastu > > Thanks > Prashanth.K > > > 1) first, by tracing the etymology of the words !explaining > the 'root' of the words and their derivatives and compounds. and also > explaining how shift in meanings can occur for the same word by the > clever use of Sandhis! i am still waiting for someone to answer your > query on MAYABHEDA ! IS IT MAYA +BHEDA OR MAYA + ABHEDA? (Sunderji, > can you solve this riddle?) > > > > > > ---- Cool Things Happen When Mac Users Meet! Join the community in Boston this July: www.macworldexpo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Namaste Kenji, May I compliment you on your brilliant exposition of Maya in the Vedas. Though I was unable to participate in the discussions due to a busy schedule, I made sure that I would not miss reading any your messages. I learned a lot from them. And it is not without reserve that I approach the next month's topic, because after being exposed to the bright sunlight of your words, it would need far greater skills than I possess to prevent what follows from appearing dim by comparison - for when the eye has looked at the brightness of sunlight for a long time, it is not easy for it to adjust to the dimness of the shadow. I look forward to learning more from you after your rest in the mountains. Warm regards, Chittaranjan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Yes, indeed! A spectacular display of scholarship, Kenji. Sorry that I became a bit overwhelmed and dropped out of the discussion. But I cut and pasted a lot of material into a scrapbook, which I hope to review someday soon! Benjamin advaitin, "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16> wrote: > Thank you Prasanth for clarifying on maya+abheda! > > on another note ... > > I Have heard of > > 1)bheda shrutis > > 2)abheda shrutis > > 3) ghataka shrutis > > 'Two birds with similar qualities and attached to each other, reside > in the same tree. One of them (Jivatma) eats the fruit (the results > of his karma), whereas the other (Iswara or Brahman) shines, without > eating the fruit." (example of bheda shruti) but there can be > an 'abheda' interpretation also by advaitins. > > There is only One - abheda shruti > > and some passages from Brihadaranyaka Upanishad describe about the > relationship between body, soul relationship - example of ghataka ! > > maybe someone will elaborate on these at a later date! > > thank you! > > my third post-sorry for exceeding my quota! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > advaitin, <prashanthkris@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste to All > > This is my Firt Posting so please excuse me for any mistakes.. > > > > I think it should be MAYA + ABHEDA, as this is gramaticaay correct. > > (A+A=AA sawarna deerga sandhi) > > > > In the second case MAYA +BHEDA it is (A+Ae I don't remember any > sandhi. If it woyld have been A+E= Ae it might have been Guna) > > So I think it should be MAYA+ABHEDA > > > > I have read most of the Maya Series. which is posted by Ken, Thanks > Ken I have really learnt a lot..from your analysis. > > I think the biggest Maya what we are encountering which rightly > Krishna Says in the Great Bhagavat Gita..That we take results of our > > actions for ourselves.. I think we can come out of this MAYA which > itself is created by lord, by the Gnana, the gnana of not attributing > > the results of our actions to ourself and whether success or > failure attribute it to lord and by just doing the karma what we are > supposed > > to do. > > > > I suppose this is the reason why we say Tat Sat Brahmaarpanamastu > > > > Thanks > > Prashanth.K > > > > > > 1) first, by tracing the etymology of the words !explaining > > the 'root' of the words and their derivatives and compounds. and > also > > explaining how shift in meanings can occur for the same word by the > > clever use of Sandhis! i am still waiting for someone to answer > your > > query on MAYABHEDA ! IS IT MAYA +BHEDA OR MAYA + ABHEDA? (Sunderji, > > can you solve this riddle?) > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- Cool Things Happen When Mac Users Meet! Join the community in > Boston this July: www.macworldexpo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Namaste Kenji and All: Although you are by no means finished and most of us are just beginning, on the exploration of the first of the One of the Many, this does seem a good time to stop and say thank you, thank you, thank you:-) It is quite clear that you have spent many hours lovingly laboring over your posts and your understanding which you have so generously shared with us. Adiji is correct in that you have held some of us spellbound with your exposition, but let us not forget the source of the spell, the One from whom all breathes forth! As you said in one of your first posts, it is the attitude with which one studies the Vedas that counts the most. May we all approach with respect, humility, and pure devotion. Like you I will be going away next week, to the mountains in NE Pennsylvania where I grew up to visit my family and stay in a cabin near my brother by a lake where he now lives and where I swam many times as a child. While there I will also swim in the ocean RgVeda. As you proceeded all I did was watch from the shore or at best tread water. All right, at best, stick my toes in the surf :-) I have taken your posts and some of the wonderful responses and transferred them to a text format which I can print out and take with me. I am not sure why but something about this thread has been sacred, perhaps because while it has been scholarly indeed it has also been permeated with the devotion of those who authored and contributed, to whom I also offer my gratitude and namaskarams. You said that you would provide both the simple for those of us without the scholarly backround and you did that beautifully, and that you would provide the sanskrit text and deeper understanding for those who could understand and you did that in a most excellent fashion, as attested to by those who knew enough to know that they did not understand! A few days ago, I went for a walk in one of my favorite parks, known as Playwicki Farm in recognition of what is believed to have been a town built by the Native American Indian of the Delaware and/or Lenape tribe. Getting two birds on the same branch, one singing and one watching was not in the cards, but, what was in the tree was this single bird singing away at the top as the late afternoon melted into evening, the moon quietly waiting her turn to shine into the night... RV.III.20.2 ágne trií te vaájinaa trií Sadhásthaa tisrás te jihvaá Rtajaata puurviíH | tisrá u te tanvò devávaataas taábhir naH paahi gíro áprayuchan || 'Three are thy powers, O Agni, three thy stations, three are thy tongues, yea, many, Child of Order! Three bodies hast thou which the Gods delight in: with these protect our hymns with care unceasing.' http://www.omshaantih.com/Scriptures/Rig%20Veda/I.164/1.htm http://www.omshaantih.com/Scriptures/Rig%20Veda/I.164/2.htm http://www.omshaantih.com/Scriptures/Rig%20Veda/I.164/3.htm With love and gratitude, Joyce 'From this Supreme Self are all these, indeed, breathed forth.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Namaste All, advaitin, "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16> wrote: >and some passages from Brihadaranyaka Upanishad >describe about the relationship between >body, soul relationship This is very interesting. Perhaps, please refer 7-4-14 Yajnavalkya and Uddalaka. Extending what is written, "He inhabits the body; He is inside of the body and yet the body does not know Him ..." >From this, it seems it is a one-sided relation. Best Regards, Raghava ______________________ India Matrimony: Find your partner online. http://.shaadi.com/india-matrimony/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Dear Adi-Ji: Indeed this has been a very interesting puzzle for ages? If maayaa was "TRUE - sat" then she would not have been bound through brahma and if she is "not true - asat" than one would not have been able to experience it either. That is why aacharya calls it "anrivacaniiya - not expressable in a words" sannaapsannaa.apyumayaatmikaa no bhinnaapyabhinnaapyubhayaatmikaa no | saa~Ngaapyana~Ngaa pyubhayaatmikaa no mahaadbhutaa.anirvacaniiyaruupaa || || vivekacuuDaamaNi 111 || I also like the finer distinction proposed by vidyaaharaNa in paNcadashii. cidaanandamayabrahmapratibimbasamanvitaa | tamorajaHsattvaguNaa prakR^itirdvividhaa ca saa || sattvashuddhavishuddhibhyaaM maayavidye ca te mate | maayaabimbo vashikR^itya taaM syaatsarvaj~na iishvaraH || Liberal meaning – pakR^iti is the one who with the brahmaa's desire (pratiicchhaa) after having been balanced with triguNa gets expressed. sattvaguNa expressed as "pure – shuddha" is known as maayaa and "impure – malina" expression of prakR^iti is aviddyaa. Thus the sarvaj~na ishvara keeps maayaa in the reflection. Please feel free to correct my limited understanding of maaya as being bound through reflection of that trikaalaatiita satya. May be this will help us understand the maayaa in general. Finally, I must thank Kan-ji for taking on the task to explore the vast subject matter of maayaa. Regards, Dr. Yadu advaitin, "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16> wrote: > Thank you Prasanth for clarifying on maya+abheda! > > on another note ... > > I Have heard of > > 1)bheda shrutis > > 2)abheda shrutis > > 3) ghataka shrutis > > 'Two birds with similar qualities and attached to each other, reside > in the same tree. One of them (Jivatma) eats the fruit (the results > of his karma), whereas the other (Iswara or Brahman) shines, without > eating the fruit." (example of bheda shruti) but there can be > an 'abheda' interpretation also by advaitins. > > There is only One - abheda shruti > > and some passages from Brihadaranyaka Upanishad describe about the > relationship between body, soul relationship - example of ghataka ! > > maybe someone will elaborate on these at a later date! > > thank you! > > my third post-sorry for exceeding my quota! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > advaitin, <prashanthkris@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste to All > > This is my Firt Posting so please excuse me for any mistakes.. > > > > I think it should be MAYA + ABHEDA, as this is gramaticaay correct. > > (A+A=AA sawarna deerga sandhi) > > > > In the second case MAYA +BHEDA it is (A+Ae I don't remember any > sandhi. If it woyld have been A+E= Ae it might have been Guna) > > So I think it should be MAYA+ABHEDA > > > > I have read most of the Maya Series. which is posted by Ken, Thanks > Ken I have really learnt a lot..from your analysis. > > I think the biggest Maya what we are encountering which rightly > Krishna Says in the Great Bhagavat Gita..That we take results of our > > actions for ourselves.. I think we can come out of this MAYA which > itself is created by lord, by the Gnana, the gnana of not attributing > > the results of our actions to ourself and whether success or > failure attribute it to lord and by just doing the karma what we are > supposed > > to do. > > > > I suppose this is the reason why we say Tat Sat Brahmaarpanamastu > > > > Thanks > > Prashanth.K > > > > > > 1) first, by tracing the etymology of the words !explaining > > the 'root' of the words and their derivatives and compounds. and > also > > explaining how shift in meanings can occur for the same word by the > > clever use of Sandhis! i am still waiting for someone to answer > your > > query on MAYABHEDA ! IS IT MAYA +BHEDA OR MAYA + ABHEDA? (Sunderji, > > can you solve this riddle?) > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- Cool Things Happen When Mac Users Meet! Join the community in > Boston this July: www.macworldexpo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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