Guest guest Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Hi Joyce, Your post on 'Jai Gurudev!!!' gave as the meaning of 'guru': "(literal meaning: "remover of ignorance" - Gu=darkness & Ru=dispeller. what a beautiful meaning!)". I have seen this numerous times so no reflection on Swami Siddhananda personally - but where are the precise references for this? I have found no such meanings in any Sanskrit dictionary or any conceivable way of deriving such meanings. It would be nice if someone could indicate how this translation might arise since I agree that it would be a 'beautiful meaning'! Best wishes, Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 The well known or famous sloka to that effect is gukaaro andhakaarasya rushabdastannirodhakaH| andhakaara nirodhatvaat gururityabhidiiyate|| Sunder can dig out the actual reference for this - Yaksha's nirukti may be one source. Hari OM! Sadananda -- Dennis Waite <dwaite wrote: > Hi Joyce, > > Your post on 'Jai Gurudev!!!' gave as the meaning of 'guru': > > "(literal meaning: "remover of ignorance" - Gu=darkness & > Ru=dispeller. what > a beautiful meaning!)". > > I have seen this numerous times so no reflection on Swami Siddhananda > personally - but where are the precise references for this? I have > found no > such meanings in any Sanskrit dictionary or any conceivable way of > deriving > such meanings. It would be nice if someone could indicate how this > translation might arise since I agree that it would be a 'beautiful > meaning'! > > Best wishes, > > Dennis > > > ===== What you have is destiny and what you do with what you have is self-effort. Future destiny is post destiny modified by your present action. You are not only the prisoner of your past but master of your future. - Swami Chinmayananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 advaitin, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada> wrote: > The well known or famous sloka to that effect is > > gukaaro andhakaarasya rushabdastannirodhakaH| > andhakaara nirodhatvaat gururityabhidiiyate|| > > Sunder can dig out the actual reference for this - Yaksha's nirukti may > be one source. > > Hari OM! > Sadananda > > > -- Dennis Waite <dwaite@a...> wrote: > > Hi Joyce, > > > > Your post on 'Jai Gurudev!!!' gave as the meaning of 'guru': > > > > "(literal meaning: "remover of ignorance" - Gu=darkness & > > Ru=dispeller. what > > a beautiful meaning!)". > > > > I have seen this numerous times so no reflection on Swami Siddhananda > > personally - but where are the precise references for this? I have > > found no > > such meanings in any Sanskrit dictionary or any conceivable way of > > deriving > > such meanings. It would be nice if someone could indicate how this > > translation might arise since I agree that it would be a 'beautiful > > meaning'! Namaste And in this context, there are two more shlokas (in addition to the above) on guru for which I would like to know the source. They are: 1. avidyA-mUla-nASAya janma-karma-nivRttaye / jnAna-vairAgya-siddhyartham guru-padodakam Subham // The Water that washes off the feet of the guru can remove the root of ignorance, the cycle of karma that leads to birth again and again, and can bestow wisdom and dispassion. 2. gukAraSca guNAtIto rukAro rUpa-varjitaH / gunAtItam arUpamca yat-tatvam sa guru-smRtaH// 'gu' stands for the transcendence of guNas and 'ru' stands for the absence of form; So the principle of 'guru'[ is that which transcends all qualities and is formless. PraNAms to all advaitins profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 My version of the sloka quoted runs like this. This is from Guru Gita. Guru Gita authored by sage Veda Vyasa. This book is a part of Uttara Khanda in Skandapurana. The narrator is sage Suta. His expounding, for the benefit of sages like Sownaka, the message originally imparted to Goddess Parvathi by Lord Siva, forms the core of this book. ) Gukaraschandhakarastu rukarastannirodha krith Andhkara vinasitvad gururityabhidhiyate.- Sloka No-45 'Gu' is a symbol of the darkness of ignorance. 'ru' dispels that darkness. Teacher is thus referred to as a "Guru" because he removes from his disciple's mind the darkness of ignorance. The lectures of Sri Kanchi Sankaraarcharya Swamikal on Guru in "Devitin Kural" is worth reading . The following link is also useful on guru tatva http://www.sivanandadlshq.org/download/gurutattva.htm Regards, Sundra Rajan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 Namaste, There is another one, which I recite as part of Guru Vandanam: Gukaarastvandakaarovai rukaarastannivartakah Andhakaaraniroditvaat gururityabidheeyate S.Sundara Rajan [sudarshan3] Tuesday, July 06, 2004 5:02 PM advaitin RE: guru My version of the sloka quoted runs like this. This is from Guru Gita. Guru Gita authored by sage Veda Vyasa. This book is a part of Uttara Khanda in Skandapurana. The narrator is sage Suta. His expounding, for the benefit of sages like Sownaka, the message originally imparted to Goddess Parvathi by Lord Siva, forms the core of this book. ) Gukaraschandhakarastu rukarastannirodha krith Andhkara vinasitvad gururityabhidhiyate.- Sloka No-45 'Gu' is a symbol of the darkness of ignorance. 'ru' dispels that darkness. Teacher is thus referred to as a "Guru" because he removes from his disciple's mind the darkness of ignorance. The lectures of Sri Kanchi Sankaraarcharya Swamikal on Guru in "Devitin Kural" is worth reading . The following link is also useful on guru tatva http://www.sivanandadlshq.org/download/gurutattva.htm Regards, Sundra Rajan Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To Post a message send an email to : advaitin Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 --- "S.Sundara Rajan" <sudarshan3 wrote: > 'Gu' is a symbol of the darkness of ignorance. 'ru' > dispels that darkness. > Teacher is thus referred to as a "Guru" because he > removes from his > disciple's mind the darkness of ignorance. Namaste, I know that this thread ended but I am presently trying to catch up with about 300 postings. This thread caused me to return to the Rgveda. The discussion on the meaning and etymology of the word guru reminded me of a query I had some time ago as to how the word could mean ‘heavy’ as opposed to laghu ‘light’. in the pronunciation practice. while it also means spiritual teacher. I never resolved that question but was left speculating. This thread caused me to have another look and the two times the word ‘guru’ is used in the Rgveda Samhita are interesting in the light of the proposed meaning of ‘dispeller of darkness of ignorance’. The first use is in a hymn dedicated to Agni and is clearly related to the power-house of potentiality that is the hymn or mantra. It would seem to refer to that inner moment of inspiration when the hymn removes the ‘weakness of the poet’ and fills him with the power of the Word which is ‘heavy’, guru. This ‘heaviness’, the pregnant mantra, is that which enables the removal of the appearance of diversity in the substratum of Oneness. ‘So may our song that purifies, through wisdom reach in a moment him the Universal,’ That seems to encapsulate to me the ‘outer’ guru and the ‘inner’ guru, the outer teacher through speech and the inner teacher in the flash of insight. It also gives, possibly, a link with the use of the word ‘guru’ in pronunciation rules. (In the course of this little study I came across an interesting Sri Aurobindu essay ‘A hymn of the thought gods’ based on RV.V.52-58 which I will scan and post off-site if anyone is interested.) In the light of my June postings you may also like to follow up the use here of the impelling power ‘kratu’ and that faculty of spiritual insight ‘dhI’ in the sounding of the samAn, ‘song’in that same line: tám ín nv èvá samanaá samaanám abhí krátvaa punatií dhiitír ashyaaH | ‘So may our song that purifies, through wisdom reach in a moment him the Universal,’ The three relevant verses in IV.5 are: RV IV.5.6-8 idám me agne kíyate paavakaáminate gurúm bhaaráM ná mánma | bRhád dadhaatha dhRSataá gabhiiráM yahvám pRSThám práyasaa saptádhaatu || ‘To me, weak, innocent, thou, luminous Agni, hast boldly given as 'twere a heavy burthen, This Prstha hymn, profound and strong and mighty, of seven elements, and with offered dainties.’ tám ín nv èvá samanaá samaanám abhí krátvaa punatií dhiitír ashyaaH | sasásya cármann ádhi caáru pR'shner ágre rupá aárupitaM jábaaru || ‘So may our song that purifies, through wisdom reach in a moment him the Universal, Established on the height, on earth's best station, above the beauteous grassy skin of Prsni.’ pravaácyaM vácasaH kím me asyá gúhaa hitám úpa niNíg vadanti | yád usríyaaNaam ápa vaár iva vrán paáti priyáM rupó ágram padáM véH || ‘Of this my speech what shall I utter further? They indicate the milk stored up in secret When they have thrown as 'twere the cows' stalls open. The Bird protects earths' best and well-loved station.’ Nb. ‘pRSThám’ is the name of a particular arrangement of sAmans employed at the mid-day oblation. ‘So may our song that purifies, through wisdom reach in a moment him the Universal,’ The release of the words of inspiration, the cows from the cave of the enclosed, deluded heart and mind, reminds us of Indra’s lightning bolt and therefore it is not surprising to find that the next reference to ‘guru’ is in a hymn dedicated to the Maruts, the storm-gods, and demonstrates the Rishis’ awareness of that immense power of the natural forces impelling their environment. I have included the first verses as they demonstrate the Rishi’s essential question, ‘By whose impelling power….?’ RV 1.39. Maruts. prá yád itthaá paraavátaH shocír ná maánam ásyatha | kásya krátvaa marutaH kásya várpasaa káM yaatha káM ha dhuutayaH || ‘WHEN thus, like flame, from far away, Maruts, ye cast your measure forth, To whom go Ye, to whom, O shakers of the earth, moved by whose wisdom, whose design?’ sthiraá vaH santv aáyudhaa paraaNúde viiLuú utá pratiSkábhe | yuSmaákam astu táviSii pániiyasii maá mártyasya maayínaH || ‘Strong let your weapons be to drive away your foes, firm for resistance let them be. Yea, passing glorious must be your warrior might, not as a guileful mortal's strength.’ páraa ha yát sthiráM hathá náro vartáyathaa guru | ví yaathana vanínaH pRthivyaá vy aáshaaH párvataanaam || ‘When what is strong ye overthrow, and whirl about each ponderous (guru) thing, Heroes, your course is through the forest trees of earth, and through the fissures of the rocks.’ In this use it does seem that the word ‘guru’ refers to the ‘heaviness’ of the obstruction rather than the pregnant Word. There is room for interpretation of a connection between these apparently opposite uses of the word but I do not want to speculate too much here. In the linking of these two uses of ‘guru’ I am reminded of: RV VII.56.4 etaáni dhiíro niNyaá ciketa pR'shnir yád uúdho mahií jabhaára || ' A sage was he who knew these mysteries, what in her udder mighty Prsni (mother of maruts) bore. ' Sada-ji had suggested a look in the Nirukta of Yaska might give some etymological help. I could not find a reference in the Nirukta but following the Monier Williams link to ‘giri’, mountain, we come to the interesting verbal root ‘gR’ for which Panini gives the following two dhattvarthas: 1) Sabda : so we could, in the light of the role of guru, consider: Br. Up. I.5.3 ‘And any sound (Sabda) is but the organ of speech for it reveals a thing but cannot itself be revealed.’ Or more controversially; nyAya sUtra I.1.7 ‘Verbal testimony is the instruction by a reliable authority.’ 2) vijnAna: a word used variously by different teachers but defined by Shankara in his commentary on the Ait. Up. III which has some relevant passages if we take guru to be ‘Self’.. I am probably straying too far so must obey the Herdsman's whip, Ken Knight ===== ‘From this Supreme Self are all these, indeed, breathed forth.’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 --- ken knight <anirvacaniya wrote: > 2) vijnAna: a word used variously by different > teachers but defined by Shankara in his commentary on > the Ait. Up. III which has some relevant passages if > we take guru to be ‘Self’.. > > I am probably straying too far so must obey the > Herdsman's whip, > > Ken Knight Ken - now you got me curious - can you complete the no. 2) item fully the relavance of the passage. Hari OM! Sadananda ===== What you have is destiny and what you do with what you have is self-effort. Future destiny is post destiny modified by your present action. You are not only the prisoner of your past but master of your future. - Swami Chinmayananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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