Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 --- adi_shakthi16 <adi_shakthi16 wrote: > > How can a thread on 'Guru' End? I know that is a rhetorical question but a reply might be: If it has a beginning or if what is said is based in wrong intention or error. > Guru's words carry weight as they contain eternal > wisdom. That is why > a Guru is venerated. Further to this meaning of 'heavy' for guru. Using Rgvedic imagery then the cloud is heavy, pregnant with rain, as are the words of the wise. Until the fiery shaft of inspiration pierces the cloud the words can obscure the light in the cave of the heart. While we await that shaft then veneration at the feet of the guru protects both the words and the devotee. Once the rains fall and create the streams, individual yet united in their goal of union in the sea and while nourishing the fields on their journey, it is possible for a dam to appear and trap the waters in a stagnating pool until the heat of the sun evaporates them. It is in that stagnating state that we can note a negative aspect of the 'heaviness' because through error or ignorance the waters once more cease to flow and nourish. The words of the wise then no longer nourish fully even when spoken enthusiastically. The connection with their source in the substratum is temporarily covered and their heaviness becomes a burden. That is where true faith, Sraddha, comes into play. I am sure that we all know examples from various traditions where the words of the wise have been used to establish an exclusive rather than universal point of view. All that is obvious. Where my question still lies is in the connection of the meaning of guru as spiritual teacher and 'guru' and 'laghu' in pronunciation. I am sure that there is a connection here and something to be understood on how the meaning in a mantra or wise saying is protected from wrongful expression. Maybe someone out there can help out with that. I will have to end as about now a friend, who has bowel cancer, is being attended by her son who has to give the doctors permission to turn off her life support system. It is time to be quiet with them. ken > > Ananta Mahima Guru Mahima > > There is no end to singing the glories of Guru! > > Similarly, How can a thread on Vedas end? > > " Anantah vai Vedah", the Vedas themselves proclaim > the Vedas are > endless !!! > > Ken-ji, Yes! You are right ! one of the meanings of > Guru is*heavy.* > > > and thank you once again for referencing the hymns > in the RG VEDA > to explain the Guru Tattwa. > > yasya deve para bhaktir > yatha deve tatha gurau > tasyaite kathita hy arthah > prakasante mahatmanah > > > "Unto those great souls who have implicit faith in > both the Lord and > the spiritual master, all the imports of Vedic > knowledge are > automatically revealed." (Shvetasvatara Upanishad > 6.23) > > yes! there is an inner Guru and an outer guru ! > > Sri Ramana himself never had a human Guru, but he is > on record as > saying that the mountain of Arunachala was his Guru. > In his > devotional poetry he says that Arunachala was his > Guru, his Self and > his God. So, his Guru did have a physical form, even > though it wasn't > a human one. > > Sri Ramana always taught that a Guru is > necessary for everyone > who wants to realize the Self. When he spoke on this > topic, he would > usually say that the Self takes the form of a > physical Guru who > instructs the devotee and supervises his progress. > At the same time, > the Guru is also the Self within. That inner Self, > that inner Guru, > pulls the mind into itself, and if the mind is > mature enough, the > inner Guru dissolves the mind completely. Both the > inner and the > outer Guru are required to complete the work. > > nitya sudham nirabhasam, nirakaram niranjanam > > nity abodham chidanandam, guru brahma namamayam > > I prostrate to that Guru, who is the Eternally Pure > Brahman, free > from reflection, formless, taintless, eternally > awake as Pure > Consciousness and Bliss. > > > Ken-ji, now that you are here, we expect you to > elaborate more On > MAYA in the vedas and our chitta-ji himself has > acknowledgeD that he > prefers the 'magical power of Maya ' to Her being > described > as 'illusion' in Adwaitic literaure. Is Maya a myth > or a mystery or > AN illusion or delusion? > > I am slowly discovering 'words' have personalities > after reading the > responses of some members! also, i am learning about > the 'error' > theory! Error of perception, Error of coginition, > Error of > understanding , Error of interpretation and the > biggest Error of them > all -the Error of repetition! Comedy of errors! > Smiles!! > > any way did i hear someone say something about > Philosophy and > Religion? > > Well, Srimad Bhagwat Gita is first a Treatise on > Philosophy and then > only a Book on Religion! > > Read this from the Srimad BhagwAt Gita... > > "Thinking about sense-objects > > Will attach you to sense-objects; > > Grow attached, and you become addicted; > > Thwart your addiction, it turns to anger; > > Be angry, and you confuse your mind; > > Confuse your mind, you forget the lesson of > experience; > > Forget experience, you lose discrimination; > > Lose discrimination and you miss life's only > purpose." > > Bhagavad Gita > > > > "There is no religion in which everyday life is not > considered a > prison; there is no philosophy or ideology that does > not think that > we live in alienation." > > so, i am happy that Chiita-ji started with thoughts > on western > philosophy and made a smooth transition to Eastern > thought! > > Love and regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== ‘From this Supreme Self are all these, indeed, breathed forth.’ Take Mail with you! 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Guest guest Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Thank you, ken-ji! To someone who loves 'poetry' the rig vedic imagery is always full of 'romance' and 'mysticism' ... Great explanation of Guru Tattwa. You state and this is the Truth, "It is in that stagnating state that we can note a negative aspect of the 'heaviness' because through error or ignorance the waters once more cease to flow and nourish. The words of the wise then no longer nourish fully even when spoken enthusiastically. The connection with their source in the substratum is temporarily covered and their heaviness becomes a burden. That is where true faith, Sraddha, comes into play." In Sikhism, "Word is Guru, Guru is Word"! And that is why the holy scripture of the Sikhs is called "Guru Granth Sahib." and i am glad you mentioned 'Sraddha' and when we say Sraddha we do not mean just 'faith' - but faith accompanied by devotion and veneration! Bhagwan Krishna says "Sraddhavan Labhate Jnanam" "it is only by faith that one attains wisdom" and "Samsayatma Vinasyathi" "one who doubts will perish". What is being advocated is not 'Blind Faith' rather 'inquiring' in a submissive manner. as the group page says ... pariprashnena sevayaa . upadekShyanti te GYaanaM GYaaninastattvadarshinaH .. Bhagavad-Gita 4:34 Learn that by humble reverence, by inquiry and by service. The sages who have seen the truth will instruct thee in wisdom. Kenji states ... " Where my question still lies is in the connection of the meaning of guru as spiritual teacher and 'guru' and 'laghu' in pronunciation. I am sure that there is a connection here and something to be understood on how the meaning in a mantra or wise saying is in a mantra is protected from wrongful expression." YES- Guru and Laghu in sanskrit Pronounciation. Sanskrit verse is written on the basis of long and short syllables. In Sanskrit these are called guru (heavy) and laghu (light). English metres are based on accented syllables, but classical Sanskrit does not have accents like English. Nevertheless, the idea of heavier and lighter syllables can be seen as something similar to accented and unaccented syllables. as Kenji says , our first job is to learn to distinguish between long and short syllables, otherwise we won't ever be able to properly pronounce or chant a Sanskrit verse. Now, how can we distinguish between long and short syllables? In Sanskrit there are only five short vowels: a, i, u, R and L. So in the word Rsi, we have two short syllables. All the other vowels, A, I, U, RR, e, ai, o, au, are considered to be long. Take the word "mAYA" for instance- Here , the letter "A" is used as a long syllable. Pronounced thus, mAyA MEANS "ILLUSION" or "Magical power" or whatever! But if you write maya - with 'a ' as the short syllable, then it means "mine" or "full of" depending on the context. Chinmaya- full of consciousness. and then again, take the Mantra Aum or Om . There is a "technique" involved in how You say the Mantra Aum. (i would request the learned members in this satsangha to explain the correct way of pronouncing this mother of all mantras.) Sunder-ji, please post the links on chanting 'Aum' in the correct manner. "But when considered as a triliteral word consisting of (a), (u), (m), it implies the three Vedas, the three states of human nature, there three divisions of the universe, and the three deities - Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva, agents in the creation, preservation, and destruction of this world; or, properly speaking, the three principal attributes of the Supreme Being personified in those three deities. In this sense it implies, in fact, the universe controlled by the Supreme Spirit." Anyway, ' Vidya shariratta mantra rahsyam." "The occult power of an incantation is its efficacy to strike identity between the sound and its symbol. " Vidya has been described as nothing other than the symbols (matrika) of the alphabet. Aum Tat Sat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 advaitin, "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16> wrote: links on chanting 'Aum' in the correct > manner. > > "But when considered as a triliteral word consisting of (a), (u), > (m), it implies the three Vedas, the three states of human nature, > there three divisions of the universe, and the three deities - > Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva, agents in the creation, preservation, and > destruction of this world; or, properly speaking, the three principal > attributes of the Supreme Being personified in those three deities. > In this sense it implies, in fact, the universe controlled by the > Supreme Spirit." Namaste, Some links of interest: http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/univ/univ_08.html http://www.yogamag.net/archives/2000/3may00/mantras.shtml http://www.vydic.org/pages/om.htm http://mailerindia.com/hindu/veda/index.php?panckshara http://hinduism.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F% 2Fwww.spiritsound.com%2Faum.html http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/aa021803b.htm http://www.thedailylama.com/pages/music/music4.html Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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