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The Real and the Unreal - Part IV

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Namaste Chitteranjanji,

A brave effort at reconciliation. I think that in

this case Shankaracarya was in a cleft stick. Writing a commentary on

Mandukya Up. some reference had to be made to the karika of his paramaguru

Gaudapada. Positions put in that work if encountered anywhere else would

have been shredded. Here he simply makes them explicit and leaves them

alone. Where lineal piety cannot ignore the import of a sutra he takes it to

be a reducti ad absurdum move.

 

To confirm for yourself that is the case go back to his own commentary on the

Mandukya Up., the two are together in the Advaita Ashrama edn. What he has

to say there about the dream and the waking state is in substantial agreement

with the B.S.B. and Brh. Up. comm.

 

The developement and the realisation of the implication of philosophical

positions can take hundreds of years. Only in modern times is the legacy of

Cartesian dualism (17th.C.) being systematically dismantled and that is

chiefly the work of the great genius Wittgenstein. So Gaudapada wasn't

wrong, just noetically early.

 

An extract from Surendranath Dasgupta's History of Indian Phil. deals with

this issue

http://www.realization.org/page/doc0/doc0087.htm

 

Best Wishes, Michael.

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Namaste Shri Michaelji,

 

 

Thank you for your comments, Michaelji.

 

> Writing a commentary on Mandukya Up. some reference had to be

> made to the karika of his paramaguru Gaudapada. Positions put in

> that work if encountered anywhere else would have been shredded.

 

The position that the syllogism of the Karika proves the unreality of

the world has been shredded by the other schools. If the Karika is

not taken as being aimed at the Buddhists, the current interpretation

still lays it open to the fault of irrelevance, since it cannot

convey the meaning of unreality to someone for whom the vyapti is not

a familiar instance. It is my belief that this is the reason why Shri

Shankaracharya does not follow the line of the Karika, in order that

the doctrine of Advaita may be enunciated and directed to those that

are characterised by avidya rather than to a jnyani. Perhaps this

expediency was required to prevent the perplexing conception of world-

unreality from further accentuating the curvature of the avidya-laden

lens through which the world is looked at.

 

> The developement and the realisation of the implication of

> philosophical positions can take hundreds of years. Only in

> modern times is the legacy of Cartesian dualism (17th.C.)

> being systematically dismantled and that is chiefly the work

> of the great genius Wittgenstein. So Gaudapada wasn't wrong,

> just noetically early.

 

I agree. It may seem strange to many ears in this forum, but I

believe that the idea that Madhwa Dvaita is a philosophy of dualism

is another legacy that needs dismantling.

 

 

Warm regards,

Chittaranjan

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Dear Chittaranjan ,

 

Namaste.

> I agree. It may seem strange to many ears in this forum, but I

> believe that the idea that Madhwa Dvaita is a philosophy of dualism

> is another legacy that needs dismantling.

 

You are welcome to try that by all means !

 

If you & moderators don't mind , bring up this topic of yours in

vAdavaLi. We'll take up from there.

 

Regards,

Srinivas.

 

 

 

 

advaitin, "Chittaranjan Naik"

<chittaranjan_naik> wrote:

> Namaste Shri Michaelji,

>

>

> Thank you for your comments, Michaelji.

>

>

> > Writing a commentary on Mandukya Up. some reference had to be

> > made to the karika of his paramaguru Gaudapada. Positions put in

> > that work if encountered anywhere else would have been shredded.

>

> The position that the syllogism of the Karika proves the unreality

of

> the world has been shredded by the other schools. If the Karika is

> not taken as being aimed at the Buddhists, the current

interpretation

> still lays it open to the fault of irrelevance, since it cannot

> convey the meaning of unreality to someone for whom the vyapti is

not

> a familiar instance. It is my belief that this is the reason why

Shri

> Shankaracharya does not follow the line of the Karika, in order

that

> the doctrine of Advaita may be enunciated and directed to those

that

> are characterised by avidya rather than to a jnyani. Perhaps this

> expediency was required to prevent the perplexing conception of

world-

> unreality from further accentuating the curvature of the avidya-

laden

> lens through which the world is looked at.

>

>

> > The developement and the realisation of the implication of

> > philosophical positions can take hundreds of years. Only in

> > modern times is the legacy of Cartesian dualism (17th.C.)

> > being systematically dismantled and that is chiefly the work

> > of the great genius Wittgenstein. So Gaudapada wasn't wrong,

> > just noetically early.

>

> I agree. It may seem strange to many ears in this forum, but I

> believe that the idea that Madhwa Dvaita is a philosophy of dualism

> is another legacy that needs dismantling.

>

>

> Warm regards,

> Chittaranjan

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Dear Shri Shrinivas-ji,

 

I believe that you have misunderstood whatever I said to be some kind

of a challenge to Dvaita. That was not at all my concern. I was

saying that Dvaita is not what is commonly understood today as

dualism, by which term is normally meant that a plurality of

independently subsisting things exist. The understanding that I got

from my discussions in Vadavali was that the existence of the world

is sustained only by the existence of Brahman. If my undertanding is

wrong, then I stand corrected, and then let the matter rest here.

Thank you for the invitation, but I have no wish or desire to take it

up in Vadavali.

 

Regards,

Chittaranjan

 

 

 

advaitin, "Srinivas Kotekal" <kots_p>

wrote:

>

> Dear Chittaranjan ,

>

> Namaste.

>

> > I agree. It may seem strange to many ears in this forum, but I

> > believe that the idea that Madhwa Dvaita is a philosophy of

dualism

> > is another legacy that needs dismantling.

>

> You are welcome to try that by all means !

>

> If you & moderators don't mind , bring up this topic of yours in

> vAdavaLi. We'll take up from there.

>

> Regards,

> Srinivas.

>

>

>

>

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Dear Sri Chittaranjan-ji,

 

Thanks for clarifying your position. I stand corrected about your

posting.

>I was saying that Dvaita is not what is commonly understood today as

>dualism, by which term is normally meant that a plurality of

>independently subsisting things exist.

 

Yes indeed, it is the general misconception about Dvaita vEdAnta

among outsider. I thank you for your bold effort, while yourself

being an outsider, to correct that misconception by attesting the

correct position.

>The understanding that I got from my discussions in Vadavali was

that the existence of the world

>is sustained only by the existence of Brahman.

 

Your understanding is to the point and thanks again for it.

 

Regards,

Srinivas.

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Namaste Shri Srinivasji,

 

Thank you for your reply. All's well that ends well! :-)

 

Warm regards,

Chittaranjan

 

 

-- In advaitin, "Srinivas Kotekal" <kots_p>

wrote:

>

>

> Dear Sri Chittaranjan-ji,

>

> Thanks for clarifying your position. I stand corrected about your

> posting.

>

> >I was saying that Dvaita is not what is commonly understood today

as

> >dualism, by which term is normally meant that a plurality of

> >independently subsisting things exist.

>

> Yes indeed, it is the general misconception about Dvaita vEdAnta

> among outsider. I thank you for your bold effort, while yourself

> being an outsider, to correct that misconception by attesting the

> correct position.

>

> >The understanding that I got from my discussions in Vadavali was

> that the existence of the world

> >is sustained only by the existence of Brahman.

>

> Your understanding is to the point and thanks again for it.

>

> Regards,

> Srinivas.

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