Guest guest Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 The WAVES (World Association of Vedic Studies) conference just finished here in Washington, D.C. (actually Shady Grove, MD). It was very successful, with most of the talks being rather good. Our old friends Dr. Sadananda, Ram Chandran, Professor V Krishnamurthy, Dr Yadu Moharir and others were there. (I hope I didn't forget anyone.) The big surprise for me was Prof VK. I had not met him before, and I had the impression he was a bit 'severe' from the way his posts on the list sounded to me. I was completely mistaken, and in real life Prof VK is a most engaging and lovable character, the kind of old gentleman you would love to have for an uncle or grandfather. This just shows the maya in superficial impressions. (Prof VK blames it on his mathematical mind, which comes across on paper but not in real life.) Prof VK gave a most excellent and entertaining talk on the Gita. I did not get drowsy for even a second! Dr. Yadu was the only other list participant I had not met. He was a bit closer to what I expected ... a rather cheerful character. It turns out he is a chemist and consultant by profession, living in Arizona. He was selling copies of his book on the meaning of the Sri Sukta to Lakshmi in the Rg Veda. In the preface of his book, he says that far too many Hindus simply repeat the mantras without understanding. His book proposes to explain them, using among other thing, chemistry and the knowledge of herbs. It will be interesting to see how he gets spirituality out of that. I hope those chemicals and herbs are the legal kind! :-) Dr. Sadananda gave another impressive talk on the Gita, with a rather commanding and thunderous voice. This gives a very SLIGHT Baptist minister flavor to his talk. He may not be happy that I said this, but I am sure Vivekananda was similar! Who said Hinduism can't be presented forcefully? Anyhow, 'thunderous' may be too strong a word, but his talk was powerful. And I'm sure that, unlike many Baptist ministers, he doesn't want to convert anyone. He was preaching to the choir. A Washington D.C. Chinmaya member and mathematician named Raju Chidambaram gave an interesting talk on the interface between operations research and Advaita. Basically, there is uncertainty in all our decisions, but our vasanas predispose us in certain directions. The uncertainty makes life interesting, but the laws of prakriti make life tolerably predictable. Ultimately, though, Ishawara disposes, so that life is a perfect marriage between Ishwara and Prakriti, in which Prakriti proposes and Ishwara disposes. I asked whether everything is not preordained from Ishwara's point of view, if not ours, and he replied that we don't know whether Ishwara makes up the script as he goes along. An interesting thought... My talk went well, even though the projector finally showed up as I was starting to talk. I discussed Advaita in the light of certain ideas from Western philosophy. This is a topic I have raised before on this list, but which I do not intend to continue. I am confident that my meaning is finally clear to all! :-) There were many other participants, from India and the USA, too numerous to mention. There was considerable talk about the misportrayal of Hinduism in the American academia, spearheaded by entrepreneur and Hindu activist Rajiv Malhotra. (Rajiv has many of the dynamic and clear headed qualities that helped make America strong. The kind of man who can 'make it happen'. It seems to me that India needs more of these and fewer intellectuals who argue with each other instead of doing something. The tide may be turning in this respect.) The problem with the misportrayal is that some scholars give an excessively obscene (or otherwise erroneous and self-indulgent) interpretation to some aspects of Hinduism. A good point was raised that nobody seems to dare cast Jesus or Muhammad in a pornographic light. Could fear and existing power structures have something to do with it? I think so. Anyhow, I asked Rajiv whether he accepted that the Kamasutra or sculptures of Khajuraho were not a part of Indian culture, albeit a minor part. He said of course they were. The issue is one of honesty and the avoidance of distortion for the sake of one's own pet theories. Hari Om! Benjamin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Thank you Ben for sharing this detailed update on the Waves Conference. I am sorry i missed meeting my favorite AdvaitinS, specially Professorji. JUST COULD NOT MAKE IT. TOO MANY PERSONAL ISSUES STOOD IN THE WAY. I am glad Waves conference was a success. i am sure I would have waved my Green Sining Pom=poms in the Air and shouted ( When you stood on the stage and presented your Paper and *projecting' your views on the influence of Western Philosophy and eastern thought) GO!Ben! GO! East or West! Ben is Best ! A big smile!!! You know i would not embarass you for worlds. You mention that I asked Rajiv whether he accepted that the Kamasutra or sculptures of Khajuraho were not a part of Indian culture, albeit a minor part. He said of course they were. The issue is one of honesty and the avoidance of distortion for the sake of one's own pet theories. BEN! Think about this. Who gave the 'Tantras' ( VAMACHARA, DAKSHINACHARA AND SAMAYACHARA) to the world? If westerners want to interpret "tantra" to mean something more than 'expanded' consciousness' and give their own own version of New AGE TANTRA, what can Hindus do? Sadaji's Thunderous voice I am sure there is nothing wrong with that 'apt' description. DA DA DA FROM THE UPANISHADS. ONE Truth in the Srimad Bhagwat GITA -Understood differently by different schools of thought depending on their perspectives... There are so many devas, manavas and daityas among us. arjuna uvaca prakrtim purusam caiva ksetram ksetra-jnam eva ca etad veditum icchami jnanam jneyam ca kesava sri-bhagavan uvaca idam sariram kaunteya ksetram ity abhidhiyate etad yo vetti tam prahuh ksetra-jna iti tad-vidah TRANSLATION Arjuna said: O my dear Krishna, I wish to know about prakrti [nature], purusa [the enjoyer], and the field and the knower of the field, and of knowledge and the object of knowledge. The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: This body, O son of Kunti, is called the field, and one who knows this body is called the knower of the field. ( A GOOD foundation on which to discuss the current topic -rael and the unreal -sadaji, may be you could pursue this line of thinking in explaining mAyA) Professor vkji ? you write ( The big surprise for me was Prof VK. I had not met him before, and I had the impression he was a bit 'severe' from the way his posts on the list sounded to me. I was completely mistaken, and in real life Prof VK is a most engaging and lovable character, the kind of old gentleman you would love to have for an uncle or grandfather. This just shows the maya in superficial impressions. (Prof VK blames it on his mathematical mind, which comes across on paper but not in real life.) I never thought of Vkji as being 'severe' . Rather, he comes across as 'kind and compassionate' - never argumentative. 'AGreeing to disagree ' but never in a disagreeble tone. Maths and Vedanta - a great combination -we have Ken-ji too ! The Two Anchors of this vedantic ship which will take us to the other shore !! you observe ( Dr. Yadu was the only other list participant I had not met. He was a bit closer to what I expected ... a rather cheerful character. ... . In the preface of his book, DR. Yadu says that far too many Hindus simply repeat the mantras without understanding. His book proposes to explain them, using among other thing, chemistry and the knowledge of herbs. It will be interesting to see how he gets spirituality out of that. I hope those chemicals and herbs are the legal kind! :-) Of course, the LEGAL KIND!!! Have you not you heard of Ayurveda, the science of medicine. ( Dhanavantri) Anyway, I am glad you had a great time. maybe, vkji and sadaji can present their papers in this group or store it in the files section. I already have a copy of yours and Yaduji's! so, ben, what do you think? ae hindus less or more fanatical? love and regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Namaste Adiji, You were there in spirit. Advaitins know how to do that. :-) Regarding the tantras, it does appear that there were some 'left-handed' secret tantras in Indian history. But some of the scholars go way too far with their psychoanalysis and theories. Still, though, the freedom of speech issue is a problem. It is sacred to Americans, as I think it should be. However, freedom of speech does not mean that a professor can say something false. It's a tricky issue. The problem is that too many mediocre minds are going into the humanities, because those departments are often already dominated by mediocre minds with a *political agenda*. >so, ben, what do you think? ae hindus less or more fanatical? Hindus have gotten a lot of unfair bad press. Those who committed crimes in Gujarat (Muslim or Hindu) should be punished. But you have to also look at the big picture: 10 centuries of invasion, Muslim and British, often bloody and financially ruinous. And orthodox Islam IS very dangerous and incompatible with secular democracy and its freedoms. Yet there are many Muslims who are decent and would like democracy and civil rights. I do have some fears that there are some Hindus who would like a theocratic Hindu state in India. This would be most unwise. Whatever you may think of Anglos, this idea of a secular democracy is really quite good, although vulnerable to corruption. Unfortunately, there is some truth to the claim of 'pseudo-secularity' in India. If Hindu temples are controlled by the state while minority churches and mosques are left alone, what kind of 'secularism' is that? Hari Om! Benjamin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Namaste. Thank you Ben, for the compliments. This mail is, however, to record the following flash of an idea that struck me while I was listening to one of the talks that dwelt on the mutual relationship of the Mahabharata and the Gita. The Mahabharata, without the Gita, is just one more Purana in the Library. The Gita, without the Mahabharata, is just one more Upanishat in the distant sky. The two are made for each other. The Gita is what gives the Mahabharata the status of a fifth Veda. The Mahabharata is what gives the Gita, the status of a 'loka- samgraha' (=World-welfare) work. PraNAms to all advaitins profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 A superb observation Prof-ji !! - "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk > > The Mahabharata, without the Gita, is just one more Purana in the > Library. > > The Gita, without the Mahabharata, is just one more Upanishat in the > distant sky. > > The two are made for each other. > > The Gita is what gives the Mahabharata the status of a fifth Veda. > > The Mahabharata is what gives the Gita, the status of a 'loka- > samgraha' (=World-welfare) work. > > PraNAms to all advaitins > profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 --- "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk wrote: > This mail is, however, to record the following flash of an idea > that struck me while I was listening to one of the talks that dwelt > on the mutual relationship of the Mahabharata and the Gita. > > The Mahabharata, without the Gita, is just one more Purana in the > Library. > > The Gita, without the Mahabharata, is just one more Upanishat in the > distant sky. Prof. VK - I cannot agree with the last statement. I can study Gita without Mahabharata context. Context helps but not essential to understand the yoga shaastra. It addresses the fundamental human problem which is sentered on the self not on 'Arjuna' in relation to Mahabhaarata. Due to shortage of time I did not raise my objection at that time. Besides it is useless since he has already 'concluded'. > The two are made for each other. > > The Gita is what gives the Mahabharata the status of a fifth Veda. > > The Mahabharata is what gives the Gita, the status of a 'loka- > samgraha' (=World-welfare) work. This part may be contextually true since Krishana gives his own example how or why he acts. Ready made example helps to teach Gita better but to claim that Mahabhaarata gives the status of loka sangraha to Giita is overboard claim! Hari OM! Sadananda > > PraNAms to all advaitins > profvk > > ===== What you have is destiny and what you do with what you have is self-effort. Future destiny is post destiny modified by your present action. You are not only the prisoner of your past but master of your future. - Swami Chinmayananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 advaitin, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada> wrote: > > > > The Gita, without the Mahabharata, is just one more Upanishat in the > > distant sky. > > Prof. VK - I cannot agree with the last statement. I can study Gita > without Mahabharata context. Context helps but not essential to > understand the yoga shaastra. It addresses the fundamental human > problem which is sentered on the self not on 'Arjuna' in relation to > Mahabhaarata. > > Due to shortage of time I did not raise my objection at that time. > Besides it is useless since he has already 'concluded'. > > > The two are made for each other. > > > > The Gita is what gives the Mahabharata the status of a fifth Veda. > > > > The Mahabharata is what gives the Gita, the status of a 'loka- > > samgraha' (=World-welfare) work. > > This part may be contextually true since Krishana gives his own example > how or why he acts. Ready made example helps to teach Gita better but to > claim that Mahabhaarata gives the status of loka sangraha to Giita is > overboard claim! Namaste, Sada-ji Looking back and thinking about it, I see you have a strong point there! On that day of the conference, as you know, I was just reacting off the cuff. Thank you for pointing this out. Also Adi-Shakti writes, in another context: "ps- btw, professorji-how about sharing your waves paper with all of us either through the 'files' section of this group ( of course, it is sunderji's call) or adding this paper to the 'science and spirituality' web site". My talk at the Waves conference is a summary of Chapter 10 of my book "Live Happily, the Gita Way", which is available on the web at: http://www.geocities.com/profvk/gohitvip/contentsbeach11.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 advaitin, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada> wrote: > --- "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote: > > The Mahabharata, without the Gita, is just one more Purana in the > > Library. > > > > The Gita, without the Mahabharata, is just one more Upanishat in the > > distant sky. > > Prof. VK - I cannot agree with the last statement. I can study Gita > without Mahabharata context. Context helps but not essential to > understand the yoga shaastra. It addresses the fundamental human > problem which is sentered on the self not on 'Arjuna' in relation to > Mahabhaarata. > > Due to shortage of time I did not raise my objection at that time. > Besides it is useless since he has already 'concluded'. > > > The two are made for each other. > > > > The Gita is what gives the Mahabharata the status of a fifth Veda. > > > > The Mahabharata is what gives the Gita, the status of a 'loka- > > samgraha' (=World-welfare) work. > > This part may be contextually true since Krishana gives his own example > how or why he acts. Ready made example helps to teach Gita better but to > claim that Mahabhaarata gives the status of loka sangraha to Giita is > overboard claim! Namaste, Sada-ji, Looking back and coming to think of it, I see you have a strong point there. You know I was just reacting off-hand on that day. Thanks for pointing out the weakness of the statement. PraNAms to all advaitins profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 Namaste Adi-Shakti-ji writes, in another context, : "btw, professorji-how about sharing your waves paper with all of us either through the 'files' section of this group ( of course, it is sunderji's call) or adding this paper to the 'science and spirituality' web site". May I point out that my talk at the WaVES confce was a summary of the 10th chapter of my book "Live Happily, the Gita Way" which is available in full, along with the charts, at http://www.geocities.com/profvk/gohitvip/contentsbeach11.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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