The Rope and the Snake Analogy ..... Reductio ad absurdum...

[Guest guest]

Gregji asks

 

 

===Are you speaking about metaphoric ropes and snakes here, or about

things that one stumbles over in the alley when you emerge from a

nightclub?

 

You guessed right, Greg-ji!!!

 

I was just trying to make a point here,

 

How we are to go beyond Adi Shankara's 'metaphors ' in explaining the

Theory of Vedanta. Metaphors have only Limited use in explaining a

whole theory such as vedanta,

 

The point is to go beyond the 'unreal' metaphors to arrive at the

Realism of Vedantic thought.

 

Metaphors have only limited uses. Certainly, they are powerful.

Specially the Rope and the snake analogy. But we should not get stuck

with rhem.

 

The purpose of analogy such as the "rope mistaken for a snake" helps

us remove the misunderstanding about our True Nature which is Pure

Consciousness. Once the misunderstanding is removed, the Self stands

revealed within.

 

 

That's all.

 

For those interested. i would recommend

 

The Rope and the Snake : A Metaphorical Exploration of Advaita

Vedanta/Arvind Sharma. 1997, 152 p.,

 

Contents: Preface. 1. Prolegomena: the rope-snake metaphor in

Mahayana Buddhism. 2. The rope-snake metaphor in the interface

between Mimamsa and Advaita Vedanta. 4. The rope-snake metaphor in

the Vivekacudamani and beyond. 5. The rope-snake metaphor and

theories of causation. 6. The rope-snake metaphor in Advaita Vedanta.

7. P.T. Raju's use of the rope-snake metaphor. 8. The rope-snake

metaphor and the doctrine of maya. 10. The rope-snake metaphor in the

Advaita-Bodha-Dipika. 11. The rope-snake metaphor in the teaching of

Ramana Maharsi. 12. Some metaphysical issues and their metaphorical

clarification. 13. The serpent and the rope in the modern world. 14.

The limits of metaphorical exploration. Conclusion. Notes. Glossary.

Bibliography. Index.

 

"One of the popular metaphors employed in the pedagogical and

didactic exposition of Advaita Vedanta is that of the rope and the

snake. When asked: how can this world, characterized by diversity, be

accounted for if the ultimate reality as Brahman is claimed to be one

and unique?, the answer given is: just as a rope can be mistaken for

a snake, Brahman is mistaken for the universe.

 

"This book argues that this metaphor is a good start, but only a

start in explaining the doctrines of Advaita Vedanta. In what is

perhaps the first sustained and extended study of its kind, it

explores the utility, versatility and occasionally even the

inapplicability of the metaphor in the traditional as well as the

modern study of Advaita." (jacket)

 

[Arvind Sharma is currently the Birks Professor of Comparative

Religion at McGill University. His books include A Hindu Perspective

on the Philosophy of Religion and The Experiential Dimension of

Advaita Vedanta.]

 

 

 

This book is available from:

Vedams eBooks (P) Ltd.

Vardhaman Charve Plaza IV,

Building # 9, K.P Block, Pitampura,

New Delhi 110 088, India

Fax: 91-11-27310613

e-mail: vedams

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

> >on the contrary, if the patient mistook the Rope for a snake in

broad

> >daylight , would you call it 'paranoia' or visual hallucination?

>

> ===If if if... It could be as simple as getting a new pair of

glasses!

>

>

> >Greg-ji, go beyond these case scenarios, and Let us know as an

> >advaitic counselor, how would you deal with these?

>

> ===I have the feeling that you have a question underneath these

questions, that they are short-hand for something else you'd like to

know. If so, could you say it in a different way so I can understand

the question a bit better?

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "adi_shakthi16"

<adi_shakthi16> wrote:

> Gregji asks

>

>

> ===Are you speaking about metaphoric ropes and snakes here, or

about

> things that one stumbles over in the alley when you emerge from a

> nightclub?

>

> You guessed right, Greg-ji!!!

>

> I was just trying to make a point here,

>

> How we are to go beyond Adi Shankara's 'metaphors ' in explaining

the

> Theory of Vedanta. Metaphors have only Limited use in explaining a

> whole theory such as vedanta,

>

> The point is to go beyond the 'unreal' metaphors to arrive at the

> Realism of Vedantic thought.

>

> Metaphors have only limited uses. Certainly, they are powerful.

> Specially the Rope and the snake analogy. But we should not get

stuck

> with rhem.

 

Namaste,

 

Currently I am studying advaita/vedanta with a long-time disciple of

Swami Dayananda. On the above subject, that of metaphors, or

drshtantas, she says that they are useful, to illustrate a

particular point, and that they also have their limitations.

 

She pointed this out, one night in class, when someone new tried to

extend a metaphor, saying that it didn't work for him. The way in

which he was trying to extend it, was not what the drshtanta was

intending to point out.

 

My teacher used the wave/ocean metaphor to explain what she meant by

limitation of the drshtanta. That drshtanta is used only to show

that the truth of the ocean and the wave is water, nothing more.

 

A misunderstanding of that drshtanta would be, "Oh, I am a wave,

made of water, a small part of the big water of the ocean, and

therefore my little wave self must someone "merge" with the big Self

of the ocean. This is an incorrect us of the drshtanta.

 

What is being pointed to, is that the truth of the wave and the

truth of the ocean is water, nothing more. Thus your Self and the

Self of Ishwara are the same, and in no way is one larger or

smaller, (because of course size doesn't apply).

 

Well, my understanding is very rudimentary, but thought I would join

in anyway. Most people here are probably well versed in the proper

use of drshtantas. For many years I was not, and was very confused

when classic drishtantas were used in a way in which they were not

intended. If used correctly, by a skillful teacher, drshtantas are

very useful in knocking off ignorance, and in pointing to the truth.

 

Pranams to all, Durga