[Advaita-l] Shata-shlokI of Shankara - 33 TO 38 of 101: Dream Analogy

[Guest guest]

--- "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk wrote:

>

> Note 2. Reality is that which exists in the three stages of

> Time – past, present and future.

 

Prof. VK -

 

The above definition of reality - does it have a scriptual basis or

evolved out of deductive process?

 

Hari OM!

Sadananda

 

=====

What you have is destiny and what you do with what you have is self-effort.

Future destiny is post destiny modified by your present action. You are not only

the prisoner of your past but master of your future. - Swami Chinmayananda

[Guest guest]

Shri Sadananda asked: "The above definition of reality [as that which

exists in the three stages of Time - past, present and future] - does

it have a scriptual basis or evolved out of deductive process?"

 

Here, the Gargi-Yajnyavalkya dialogue comes to mind -- from the

Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, chapter 3. In brief, Gargi asks what

underlies all past, present and future happenings; and Yajnyavalkya

answers that it is a changless principle which the knowers of brahman

call akshara or the 'changeless'. Then he goes on to identify that

reality as non-dual. He first describes it in general -- as that which

truly exists unlimited, in all limited appearances, which express it

collectively. And then he identifies it in particular -- as that which

knows, but is not known by sense or mind. It is at once what truly

knows and what is truly known.

 

Some passages from this dialogue are appended below, rather freely

tranlated. They have a bearing on the current topic of discussion,

because they show the seeming world as a passage to the real. The

passage is made by distinguishing the real from the unreal. The

distinction is ruthlessly pursued, so as to leave no trace of any

compromising confusion. The real is found only when it has been

utterly separated from unreal appearances.

 

Then it turns out that there is in truth no distinction. The seeming

unreality has never in truth been different from the real. But where

that reality is reached, no space or time or cause remains. From there

no world, nor any appearances can be recovered. All attempts to

recover the seeming world are futile.

 

The real is not truly the 'ground' on which appearances are

constructed or the 'source' from which they rise. Such concepts are no

longer applicable, where reality has been attained. They only apply in

a context of confusion, on the way to greater clarity. Where clarity

is truly found, words that were used in search of it do not apply.

 

Ananda

 

--

 

Gargi asks (in 3.8.3):

 

Consider all that's said to be:

above the heavens, below the earth,

in heaven and earth and in between;

including all there ever was,

is now, and will in future be.

In what is all that woven, warp and woof?

 

Yajnyavalkya replies (3.8.4):

 

All of that is woven, from

warp and woof, in 'ether'.

 

Gargi asks further (in 3.8.7):

 

In what is 'ether' woven, warp and woof?

 

Yajnyavalkya replies (in 3.8.8 and 3.8.11):

 

Those who investigate reality

describe it as the 'changeless'....

It is not 'air', nor 'ether'.

Connection and relationship

do not apply to it. Nor do

any qualities, like taste and smell.

It has no eyes, no ears, no speech,

no mind; it is not sharp, nor has it

vital energy, nor any face, nor measure.

Nor does it consume, nor is consumed.

It has no outside, no inside....

 

This same changeless principle

is not the seen. It is the see-er.

It is not heard; it is the hearer.

It is not thought; it is the thinker.

It is not known; it is the knower.

Apart from it, there is no see-er.

Apart from it, there is no hearer.

Apart from it, there is no thinker.

Apart from it, there is no knower.

In just this unchanging principle,

the [all-pervading] 'ether'

is woven, warp and woof.

[Guest guest]

Namaste Shri Anandaji,

 

Thank you Anandaji for your wonderful post which resonates to the

conviction in my heart. Words do not reach that 'relationship'

between Brahman and the world because there is no relationship in the

Great Non-Dual, and the most we can perhaps do until we reach That

which is always already reached is try to echo the mystery of

Existence.

 

Warm regards,

Chittaranjan

 

 

advaitin, Ananda Wood <awood@v...> wrote:

> Shri Sadananda asked: "The above definition of reality [as that

which

> exists in the three stages of Time - past, present and future] -

does

> it have a scriptual basis or evolved out of deductive process?"

>

> Here, the Gargi-Yajnyavalkya dialogue comes to mind -- from the

> Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, chapter 3. In brief, Gargi asks what

> underlies all past, present and future happenings; and Yajnyavalkya

> answers that it is a changless principle which the knowers of

brahman

> call akshara or the 'changeless'. Then he goes on to identify that

> reality as non-dual. He first describes it in general -- as that

which

> truly exists unlimited, in all limited appearances, which express it

> collectively. And then he identifies it in particular -- as that

which

> knows, but is not known by sense or mind. It is at once what truly

> knows and what is truly known.

>

> Some passages from this dialogue are appended below, rather freely

> tranlated. They have a bearing on the current topic of discussion,

> because they show the seeming world as a passage to the real. The

> passage is made by distinguishing the real from the unreal. The

> distinction is ruthlessly pursued, so as to leave no trace of any

> compromising confusion. The real is found only when it has been

> utterly separated from unreal appearances.

>

> Then it turns out that there is in truth no distinction. The seeming

> unreality has never in truth been different from the real. But where

> that reality is reached, no space or time or cause remains. From

there

> no world, nor any appearances can be recovered. All attempts to

> recover the seeming world are futile.

>

> The real is not truly the 'ground' on which appearances are

> constructed or the 'source' from which they rise. Such concepts are

no

> longer applicable, where reality has been attained. They only apply

in

> a context of confusion, on the way to greater clarity. Where clarity

> is truly found, words that were used in search of it do not apply.

>

> Ananda

>

[Guest guest]

Thank You Ananda-ji for the timely presentation of the important

dialogue between Gargi and sage Yagnavalkya from Brihadaranyaka

upanishads.

 

Sage Yagnavalkya got irritated when Gargi kept on plodding for

answers from the venerable Sage on the nature of reality and at one

point the sage chided her... "O Gargi, Do not ask too much, lest thy

head should fall off. Thou askest too much about a deity about which

we are not to ask too much. Do not ask too much, O Gargi.'

 

But Guess what? Women never give up and because of Gargi's relentless

pursuit of Truth, we are able to know from sage Yagnavalkya the true

nature of change-less Reality. More power to women of the vedic era-

Gargi and Maitreyi and their likes.

 

Chitta-ji, will you allow me to present two verses from sri.

Dattatreya's Avadhuta Gita which has some bearing on the current

discussion.

 

mano vai gaganaakaram mano vai sarvato mukham

 

mano atitam manah sarva na manah paramarthatah

 

The mind indeed is of the form of space.The mind indeed is

omnifaced. The mind is the past. The mind is all. But in reality

there is no mind. (transliteration of Swami Ashokananda)

 

The mind is the form of space and is vast. It has faces everywhere.

It is the past. It is all including present and future, including all

time and space. Everything is mind- made. The mind precedes all

phenomena.

 

In reality, there is no mind. In reality, mind has no substance, no

essence. In fact, mind has no significance, no entity. It is our

deep ignorance that gives mind substance, essence, significance and

entity. We give importance to something which actually does not exist

at all. This deep rooted habit of ours is ignorance. And Avadhuta

Gita burns this ignorance with the fire of this very knowledge -----

there is no mind whatsoever.

 

First, everything is discovered as dependent of the mind

experientially and then the true nature of the mind is known

experientially. That nature is nothing but absence of so called mind.

 

Then,

 

Another verse

 

 

naiva bodho na chabodho na bodhaabodha eva cha

 

yasyedrisah sada bodhah sa bodho naanyathaa bhavet

 

 

There is neither knowledge nor ignorance nor knowledge combined with

ignorance. He who has always such knowledge is himself Knowledge. It

is never otherwise. (Transliteration of Swami Ashokananda)

 

In reality, there is no knowledge, no ignorance. There is no

distinction of knowledge and ignorance. Both are equal opposites of

each other. Neither is there, in reality, combination of the two,

knowledge and ignorance. This synthesis is also not possible since it

also implies distinction. Experientially through practice, there is

no separate entity of knowledge nor ignorance. Neither can they give

us an entity by combining. He who has this realization, he who knows

this directly thru practice, he who knows this deeply in his heart ---

-- always, in all conditions ----- is himself Knowledge, is himself

Truth, is the embodiment of Enlightenment. One who knows the Truth

is Truth himself. Because that Knowledge is Existence-Knowledge-

Bliss. It is one, not three. Besides, Mundaka Upanishad also

says, "The knower of Brahman becomes Brahman." (3.2.9)

 

"It is never otherwise" is the antidote here. This means any

statement opposite to the above observations is not true. The Truth

is said firmly, categorically, without the least element of doubt.

This knowledge itself is the real knowledge, knowledge of the

absolute. Know this knowledge. Nothing otherwise. Eliminate the

doubts, distractions and dualities. There is nothing to know after

this knowledge.

 

(borrowed from the web)

 

Hope this is relevant to the present discussion.

 

Salutations to sri Dattatreya, THE GREAT AVADHOOTA!!!

[Guest guest]

Beautiful Shree Ananda Wood. It is surprising - yesterday night I spent

3-4hrs going over the whole of Brihadaranaka Upanishad until I was tired

and slept - the two Gargi-Yajnyavalakya dialogues caught my attention

but yet my mind was not tuned to capture what you pointed, as it was

looking for something else.

 

The power of maya is incredible - we are looking for happyness

everywhere without realizing that it is right where the searcher is!

 

My pranaams.

 

Hari OM!

Sadananda

 

--- Ananda Wood <awood wrote:

> Shri Sadananda asked: "The above definition of reality [as that which

> exists in the three stages of Time - past, present and future] - does

> it have a scriptual basis or evolved out of deductive process?"

>

> Here, the Gargi-Yajnyavalkya dialogue comes to mind -- from the

> Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, chapter 3.

 

=====

What you have is destiny and what you do with what you have is self-effort.

Future destiny is post destiny modified by your present action. You are not only

the prisoner of your past but master of your future. - Swami Chinmayananda

[Guest guest]

advaitin, kuntimaddi sadananda

<kuntimaddisada> wrote:

> --- "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote:

>

> >

> > Note 2. Reality is that which exists in the three stages of

> > Time – past, present and future.

>

> Prof. VK -

>

> The above definition of reality - does it have a scriptual basis or

> evolved out of deductive process?

>

 

Namaste, Sada-ji

 

I am sorry I am replying so late. In the meantime Shri Ananda Wood

has replied to you quoting the Gargi-Yajnavalkya dialogue.

 

But in addition to that, may I ask you? Is not "SatyaM jnAnaM

anantaM brahma" enough of an answer to your question? Also what

about "anAdyanantaM" from Kathopanishad 1.3.15?

 

If still you need something more definite, what about

"yasmAd-arvAk samvatsaro'hobhiH parivartate" (Br.U.4.4.16) --

meaning, All of Time is below That.?

 

PraNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Also, the very first mantra of Mandukya Upanishad spells it out:

 

OM ityetadaksharaM idam sarvaM tasyopavyaakhyaanaM bhuutaM bhavad.h

bhavishhyaditi sarvamo.nkaara eva | yachchaanyat.h trikaalaatiitaM

tadapyo.nkaara eva || 1||

 

This entire world is comprised of the sound AUM. This sound embraces

the past, the present and the future and truly AUM is beyond all

time.

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk>

wrote:

> advaitin, kuntimaddi sadananda

> <kuntimaddisada> wrote:

> > --- "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote:

> >

> > >

> > > Note 2. Reality is that which exists in the three stages of

> > > Time – past, present and future.

> >

> > Prof. VK -

> >

> > The above definition of reality - does it have a scriptual basis

or

> > evolved out of deductive process?

> >

>

> Namaste, Sada-ji

>

> I am sorry I am replying so late. In the meantime Shri Ananda Wood

> has replied to you quoting the Gargi-Yajnavalkya dialogue.

>

> But in addition to that, may I ask you? Is not "SatyaM jnAnaM

> anantaM brahma" enough of an answer to your question? Also what

> about "anAdyanantaM" from Kathopanishad 1.3.15?

>

> If still you need something more definite, what about

> "yasmAd-arvAk samvatsaro'hobhiH parivartate" (Br.U.4.4.16) --

> meaning, All of Time is below That.?

>

> PraNAms to all advaitins.

> profvk

[Guest guest]

Namaste Adi_shakthiji:

 

Borrowing from the WEB is an illusion! Realistically speaking, it is

just impossible to 'return the materials that we borrow from the

WEB. From next time onward, please provide the WEB site address

along with appropriate required copyright statements. We the senior

members of the list are obligated to set higher standards while

posting our messages.

 

We are fully aware that your intentions are noble, but at the same

time, many youngsters who are new to the list want to follow you as

a role-model. It is your (our) responsibility to guide them by

following the 'unwritten internet ethical standards.'

 

Let me thank you in advance for your cooperation and understanding

and please forgive me if you feel offended.

 

Warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

advaitin, "adi_shakthi16"

> .......

> (borrowed from the web)

>

> Hope this is relevant to the present discussion.

>

> Salutations to sri Dattatreya, THE GREAT AVADHOOTA!!!

[Guest guest]

Namaste Adiji,

> The mind indeed is of the form of space. The mind indeed is

> omnifaced. The mind is the past. The mind is all. But in

> reality there is no mind. (transliteration of Swami Ashokananda)

>

> The mind is the form of space and is vast. It has faces

> everywhere. It is the past. It is all including present

> and future, including all time and space. Everything is

> mind- made. The mind precedes all phenomena.

>

> In reality, there is no mind.

 

Thank you AdiMa for these beautiful words from the Avadhuta Gita. The

song of the avadhuta is one of my favourites.... it breates an air of

vairagya that I feel is unmatched by any other writing.

 

A large wave is a wave, and a small wave is a wave, but where does

the wave go when it has subsided? Its amplitude has decreased and its

wavelength has increased until it is a wave that has the same form as

that of which it is a wave. It has become vast like the form of

space. In reality there is no mind, it is Consciousness itself. In

reality there is nothing to negate, it is all Consciousness itself.

In reality, there is negation of one as being another, and this too

is Consciousness itself. In reality there is freedom from all of

this, and that too is Consciousness itself. There is nothing here or

hereafter but Consciousness. It is the beginning and the end, the

alpha and the omega, that which is affirmed and that which is denied.

It is all descriptions, and It is what can never be contained in any

description.

 

Warm regards,

Chittaranjan

 

 

advaitin, "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16>

wrote:

> Chitta-ji, will you allow me to present two verses from sri.

> Dattatreya's Avadhuta Gita which has some bearing on the current

> discussion.

>

> mano vai gaganaakaram mano vai sarvato mukham

>

> mano atitam manah sarva na manah paramarthatah

>

> The mind indeed is of the form of space.The mind indeed is

> omnifaced. The mind is the past. The mind is all. But in reality

> there is no mind. (transliteration of Swami Ashokananda)

>

> The mind is the form of space and is vast. It has faces everywhere.

> It is the past. It is all including present and future, including

all

> time and space. Everything is mind- made. The mind precedes all

> phenomena.

>

> In reality, there is no mind. In reality, mind has no substance, no

> essence. In fact, mind has no significance, no entity. It is our

> deep ignorance that gives mind substance, essence, significance

and

> entity. We give importance to something which actually does not

exist

> at all. This deep rooted habit of ours is ignorance. And Avadhuta

> Gita burns this ignorance with the fire of this very knowledge -----

> there is no mind whatsoever.

>

> First, everything is discovered as dependent of the mind

> experientially and then the true nature of the mind is known

> experientially. That nature is nothing but absence of so called

mind.

>

> Then,

>

> Another verse

>

>

> naiva bodho na chabodho na bodhaabodha eva cha

>

> yasyedrisah sada bodhah sa bodho naanyathaa bhavet

>

>

> There is neither knowledge nor ignorance nor knowledge combined

with

> ignorance. He who has always such knowledge is himself Knowledge.

It

> is never otherwise. (Transliteration of Swami Ashokananda)

>

> In reality, there is no knowledge, no ignorance. There is no

> distinction of knowledge and ignorance. Both are equal opposites of

> each other. Neither is there, in reality, combination of the two,

> knowledge and ignorance. This synthesis is also not possible since

it

> also implies distinction. Experientially through practice, there is

> no separate entity of knowledge nor ignorance. Neither can they

give

> us an entity by combining. He who has this realization, he who

knows

> this directly thru practice, he who knows this deeply in his heart -

--

> -- always, in all conditions ----- is himself Knowledge, is himself

> Truth, is the embodiment of Enlightenment. One who knows the Truth

> is Truth himself. Because that Knowledge is Existence-Knowledge-

> Bliss. It is one, not three. Besides, Mundaka Upanishad also

> says, "The knower of Brahman becomes Brahman." (3.2.9)

>

> "It is never otherwise" is the antidote here. This means any

> statement opposite to the above observations is not true. The Truth

> is said firmly, categorically, without the least element of doubt.

> This knowledge itself is the real knowledge, knowledge of the

> absolute. Know this knowledge. Nothing otherwise. Eliminate the

> doubts, distractions and dualities. There is nothing to know after

> this knowledge.

>

> (borrowed from the web)

>

> Hope this is relevant to the present discussion.

>

> Salutations to sri Dattatreya, THE GREAT AVADHOOTA!!!

[Guest guest]

Namaste shri Ramachandran-ji!

 

Why should i be offended?

 

Not At all.

 

Lord Ramachandra himself subjected his beloved Sita devi to 'Agni

Pariksha' knowing fully well that the lady was totally 'innocent'

like the Lily Of the Valley. He did that simply to prove to his Praja

that as a ruler he is also subject to all codes of Dharmic

CONDUCT.SO, MODERATOR RAMACHANDRAN-JI, i understand!!! smiles!!!

 

Satyam vada; Dharmam Chara says the vedas.

 

Speak the Truth and follow the Dharma

 

so, you are Speaking the Truth and following the Dharma.

 

 

now,the verses from Avadhoota gita are borrowed from..

 

http://www.tradimodern.com/avadhuta__gita.htm - 14k - Cached

 

Yes! the web is a Maya.

 

The whole world is a Maya.

 

BUT TO A JNANI, neither the world nor the Real world is a Maya.

 

"The world is like a spider's web. The spider builds the web with

material generated entirely within it. Spider then positions itself

in the center of the web. "

 

forgive this 'Spider' for borrowing materials from the web world and

not posting the link but i think i do acknowledge sometimes!!

smiles!!!

 

Thank you!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <RamChandran@a...>

wrote:

>>

> Ram Chandran

>

> advaitin, "adi_shakthi16"

> > .......

> > (borrowed from the web)

> >

> > Hope this is relevant to the present discussion.

> >

> > Salutations to sri Dattatreya, THE GREAT AVADHOOTA!!!