Is Ishwara Real?

[Guest guest]

Respected Advaitins,

Namaste,

The discussion on "Real & Unreal" is very absorbing.

I may say:

If the person asking whether Ishwara is real or not, or doubting whether Ishwara

is real or not, is real, then Ishwara is real. If the person asking this is

unreal, who is asking this, an unreal cannot ask.

Please clarify my understanding.

Warm Regards

 

 

 

 

Vote for the stars of 's next ad campaign!

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Shri Mani-ji,

 

advaitin, "R.S.MANI" <r_s_mani> wrote:

> If the person asking whether Ishwara is real or not,

> or doubting whether Ishwara is real or not, is real,

> then Ishwara is real. If the person asking this is

> unreal, who is asking this, an unreal cannot ask.

 

I like the way your answer is articulated. And of course, I agree

with it. :-)

 

Warm regards,

Chittaranjan

[Guest guest]

Hi Chittaranjan ji and all,

 

Even asking and questioning about existence of Ishwara

is the greatest ignorance possible because I know that

Ishwara is there and He is as much there as we are and

u are and me are.Demanding a proof of it is sign of

ignorance.My brothere have even spoken to Ishwara and

seen him as we can see each other.It all happened

while we were opening durga temple crea ted by us near

delhi.

 

Hare Krishna!!!

 

Thanx and Reagards,

Amit

 

 

 

--- Chittaranjan Naik <chittaranjan_naik

wrote:

> Namaste Shri Mani-ji,

>

> advaitin, "R.S.MANI"

> <r_s_mani> wrote:

>

> > If the person asking whether Ishwara is real or

> not,

> > or doubting whether Ishwara is real or not, is

> real,

> > then Ishwara is real. If the person asking this is

>

> > unreal, who is asking this, an unreal cannot ask.

>

> I like the way your answer is articulated. And of

> course, I agree

> with it. :-)

>

> Warm regards,

> Chittaranjan

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Shri Amit-ji,

 

I bow down to you, Amitji.

 

Pranams,

Chittaranjan

 

 

advaitin, abbhay lona <iamabbhay> wrote:

>

> Hi Chittaranjan ji and all,

>

> Even asking and questioning about existence of Ishwara

> is the greatest ignorance possible because I know that

> Ishwara is there and He is as much there as we are and

> u are and me are.Demanding a proof of it is sign of

> ignorance.My brothere have even spoken to Ishwara and

> seen him as we can see each other.It all happened

> while we were opening durga temple crea ted by us near

> delhi.

>

> Hare Krishna!!!

>

> Thanx and Reagards,

> Amit

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste:

 

In Gita Chapter 9 verses 11 to 15, Lord Krishna explains why His

grace is necessary to recognize Him. Shankara explains that without

Isvara's grace, it is impossible to recognize Him!

 

avajaananti maaM muuDhaa maanushhii.n tanumaashritam.h .

paraM bhaavamajaananto mama bhuutamaheshvaram.h

 

The ignorant ones, not knowing My supreme natures as the great Lord

of all beings, disregard Me when I assume human form. (9.11)

 

moghaashaa moghakarmaaNo moghaGYaanaa vichetasaH .

raakshasiimaasurii.n chaiva prakR^itiM mohinii.n shritaaH

 

The ignorant persons having false hopes, false actions, and false

knowledge, possess the delusive (or Taamasika) qualities (See 16.04-

18) of fiends and demons. (9.12)

 

mahaatmaanastu maaM paartha daiviiM prakR^itimaashritaaH .

bhajantyananyamanaso GYaatvaa bhuutaadimavyayam.h

 

But great souls, O Arjuna, who possess divine qualities (See 16.01-

03) know Me as the (material and efficient) cause of creation and

imperishable, and worship Me single-mindedly. (9.13)

 

satataM kiirtayanto maa.n yatantashcha dR^iDhavrataaH .

namasyantashcha maaM bhak{}tyaa nityayuk{}taa upaasate

 

Persons of firm resolve worship Me with ever steadfast devotion by

always singing My glories, striving to attain Me, and prostrating

before Me. (9.14)

 

GYaanayaGYena chaapyanye yajanto maamupaasate .

ekatvena pR^ithak{}tvena bahudhaa vishvatomukham.h

 

Some worship Me by knowledge sacrifice. Others worship the infinite

as the one in all (or non-dual), as the master of all (or dual), and

in various other ways. (9.15)

Swami Dayananda in `Gita Homestudy Notes,' provides an interesting

example: " Suppose someone is ignorant of an object. He insists, for

instance, that charcoal cannot become a diamond. I can perhaps

educate him and show him how it becomes a diamond. I can make him

understand because it is an object. But if a person is ignorant of

himself, anything that he seeks - freedom, happiness, freedom from

agitation, - happens to be himself. Now how will I arrest this

person's attention? How am I going to show him himself? This is not

possible unless he has sraddha that the self revealed in the Sastra

does exist. The recognition of that self is possible only when you

first recognize it as asti. Sraddha is indispensible because you

cannot stumble upon this particular fact. You can stumble upon

something other than yourself but not yourself. If someone does not

recognize the possibility of such a fact, he cannot accept that the

self is free from any sense of limitation. That is why it is always

said that if a person has an affinity for non-duality, it is only

because of the grace of the Lord, Isvara anugrahat eva pumsam

advaita vasana."

Some would argue that in helpless situations, out of the sheer

despair, a person can perhaps become a kind of bhakta. But even this

is impossible without Isvara's grace. A person in distress can

remain in distress and even can become more desperate without the

Grace of the Lord. But to recognize that I am the whole requires

not just some grace; it requires EXTRAORDINARY GRACE.

We can go even one step further and say that understanding

Shankara's advaita philosophy also requires Isvara's Grace. The

entire discussion on "What is real and what is unreal" by Sri

Chittaranjan and Sadaji also underlines the fundamental fact that

everything is REAL because "Brahman is everything !" Only with His

grace, we can recognize that we are "Real" when we identify

ourselves with Isvara (Brahman/Atman).

 

Warmest regards,

Ram Chandran

 

advaitin, "Chittaranjan Naik"

<chittaranjan_naik> wrote:

> Namaste Shri Amit-ji,

>

> I bow down to you, Amitji.

[Guest guest]

After reading all the posts in this thread the following verse

 

comes to mind ...

 

 

yatha drgdrsamatmanam svayamatma na pasyati

 

ato na bhasyate hyatma yam pasyati sa bhasyate

 

 

As with the eye which cannot see itself,

 

(So) the Self does not see itself,

 

Therefore indeed, the Self is not the object of consciousness.

 

That which the Self sees is the object of consciousness.

 

from Darshana Mala (garland of visions) -Nataraja Guru

 

http://www.donberry.com/Philosophy/Darsana/dm-title.html - 2k -

cached

 

Aum VASUDEVAM SARVAM ITI!