Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Dear advaitins,, I received this from a member, Jay in response to one of my posts ... "Jay Nelamangala" advaitin, "adi ma" <adi_shakthi16 CC: RamChandran Re: Grace is what we really need .............. Thank you Ram-ji!.... Tue, 17 Aug 2004 09:06:26 -0400 Dear Adi mA ! > > Thank you, Jay! > > good point... > You are welcome. > > but i was speaking of Guru's grace !! > > > >( The Advaita Philosophy begins with Grace and ends with Grace!) > Replacing 'God's Grace' with 'Guru's Grace' is not going to help you either. In vyavahAra, there is "Guru's grace" but vyavahAra itself is to be negated, because it is avidyA-krita, hence "Guru's grace" in vyavahAra along with the rest of the vyavahAra also is something that is to be negated for the advaitic realization. Thus, in vyavahAra both Guru and 'Guru's grace' are there only to be negated. Thus, in vyavahAra, saying advaita vedAnta ends with Guru's grace, would mean advaita vedAnta ends with Guru's negation. In ParamArtha, if there is still a "Guru" who is showering his grace on the student, then this position would be against advaita vedAnta itself. The state where there is no Guru, no Shishya, therefore no Grace - is the state of paramArtha. Thus advaita vedAnta can only end with paramArtha, and it can not end with 'Guru's grace' Thus, either you end with Guru's grace for Real, or you end with advaita vedAnta. You can not have both. Regards, Jay N. ********************************************************************** well, Jay! Have you read Adi Shankara's Manisha panchakam ? Every Sloka ends thus: "He who learnt to look on the phenomena in the light of Advaita is my true Guru, be he a Chandala or be he a Brahmin". So, Ramji as well as you all are my UPA-GURUS if you know how to look on all the phenomena in the light of Adwaita ! smiles... i leave you with this verse , my favorite one from the same Manisha panchakam ... daasaste.ahaM dehadR^ishhTyaa.asmi shaMbho jaatasteM.asho jiivadR^ishhTyaa tridR^ishhTe | sarvasyaa.a.atmannaatmadR^ishhTyaa tvameve\- tyevaM me dhiirnishchitaa sarvashaastraiH || Oh Lord ! In the form of body I am your servant. In the form of life, O three-eyed one, I am part of yourself. In the form of soul, you are within me and in every other soul.I have arrived at this conclusion through my intellect and on the authority of the various scriptures. Jaya jaya shankara Hara hara shankara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Namaste Adi Shaktiji My humble personal opinion - I am willing to be chastised for the same.. Shri Jay is best read in Vadavali group. Same goes for engaging in a discussion with him. In this list, it'll be a huge distraction . regards Sridhar advaitin, "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16> wrote: > Dear advaitins,, > > I received this from a member, Jay in response to one of my posts ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Namaste Sri Sridhar: I agree that Sri Jay is well read of dwaita philosophy of Sri Madhwacharyar. Just like you, I respect his scholarship, at the same time, I also do not want to engage in a discussion with him. There can never be any meaningful dialog if the parties don't agree to listen to each other. Your assertion that "Engaging Sri Jay for a discussion in our forum will be a huge distraction" is quite accurate. Our dear Adi-ma-ji forwarded a personal email to the list with good intentions, but unfortunately, it did cause some distraction. Sri Jay is filling up my mail box with emails that I do not want to open or reply (may I request Sri Jay to stop sending emails to my mailbox). >From the list point of view, this forum has provided a platform to Sri Jay to post the Dwaita Philosophy of Sri Madhwacharya for the benefit of our members. He seems to be more interested in thrashing Sankara and Sankara's advaita philosophy. On every opportunity, he intervenes and distorts the discussions. Finally, the idea of starting a separate "Vadavali" forum is provide a platform for engaging in discussions across various vedanta thoughts. There is no reason for this forum is to duplicate the same here distorting our beliefs and convictions. Let me make a final request to our members. Please do not forward personal emails of members who don't have posting privileges in advaitin, to the list. The moderators earnestly request the members to help them to do moderation effectively. Please feel free to send your suggestions to the moderators' email address: moderators. Warmest regards to all, Ram Chandran advaitin, "asridhar19" <asridhar19> wrote: > Namaste Adi Shaktiji > My humble personal opinion - I am willing to be chastised for the > same.. Shri Jay is best read in Vadavali group. Same goes for > engaging in a discussion with him. In this list, it'll be a huge > distraction . > regards > Sridhar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <RamChandran@a...> wrote: > Namaste Sri Sridhar: > > Please feel free to send your suggestions to the moderators' email > address: moderators@a... Namaste, Here was one piece of advice the moderators got from our senior-most Moderator, Prof. VK, over 3 mos. ago, and is worth reproducing here: "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk 12 May, 2004 I have not been following the latest posts for the past four or five days and so I cannot reply point by point. But one thing I want to emphasize as a general directive principle for our entire list of members. In that sense, this may even go on the public list as a general post from me. Here is my general comment: Now and then I see on this list, (and certainly so in many other lists) discussions branching off to one or other of the following: (a) A discussion on a personal note as to who understands Shankara best; (b) A discussion on why one person said what he/she said and why what was said was right or wrong; © A discussion on why a certain interpretation has to be the right interpretation because of the support from a certain scripture or bhashya. Of these three © is very legitimate as a discussion on the list. But even here, the discussion slowly strays around to something that belongs to (a) or (b). Again (a) and (b) by themselves are not wrong but when (b) is pursued relentlessly to the point of tiring out the readers, there comes a stage when it crosses the threshold and becomes a discussion on a theme that is clearly in (a). And that is where we all forget ourselves! May I therefore plead for a self-analysis by each member and when we realise that we are branching off into (b) and slowly into (a), we should just learn to be silent for some time -- like a week --, irrespective of what responses emanate from others. In fact that is the time when we have to resist the temptation to plunge in, plausibly in order to correct the other person or to make assertions about "what I really meant ...." and the like. Being a member of the advaitin list with the objective of understanding Shankara better, we owe this much at least. These golden words of advice cannot be over-emphasized. How to be a practical Vedantin? We have opportunities every day on the way we respond to posts on the list. If the words of the other person are not satisfactory, let us try just once to correct it , but thereafter, any further pursuit of the same idea in further word-play will bring in only the play of our own ego without our cognisance. With regards profvk " ===== Prof. V. Krishnamurthy My website on Science and Spirituality is http://www.geocities.com/profvk/ You can access my book on Gems from the Ocean of Hindu Thought Vision and Practice, and my father R. Visvanatha Sastri's manuscripts from the site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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