PLACE OF PRACTICE IN ADVAITA VEDANTA

[Guest guest]

Namaste, all,

 

Sri Nairji is very correct in taking ‘practice’ as “SADHANA” in the context of

our discussion. Sadhana means “means for attaining what one wants to attain”.

Here the means is “Knowledge” about one’s self as unfolded in the Upanishads,

i.e. Sabda Pramanam. It is all about getting out of one’s confusion/ignorance

about one’s self and the world and of course Iswara (i.e. “Sadhya” or the goal

for which Sadhana or the means was employed).

 

The Sadhya i.e. end of Sadhana is one’s recognition and appreciation of the fact

that one is Consciousness and Happiness or Anandam itself. This knowledge does

not entail disappearance of Dwaita. It only corrects the notion about the

“other” that the “other” binds one or makes one happy, or the “other” is the

cause for one’s suffering or happiness.

 

With the background of this Knowledge, i.e. one is Consciousness and Happiness,

one continues to live and faces the confrontation from Dwaita, but not with the

idea of gaining happiness or escaping from suffering. Such confrontation

therefore does not cause any agitation positive or negative, as the minds keeps

rather remains calm with the background of this knowledge. Since Ego is nothing

but the mind, it remains calm while interacting with Dwaita. In short, the whole

attitude of the Ego changes towards itself, the world out there and also Iswara.

Swamiji said “the great grand-father plays marble with his great grand-son out

of happiness, and not with the idea of winning the game, and losing the game is

a “bonus” to the already happy the old fellow”.

 

 

 

Arjuna said at the end

 

“nashto mohaha smruthi labdha” “gata sandehaha” and till one is able to say so

one has to resort to “tat chintanam, tat kadhanam and tat parasparabodhanam” and

for the last two, i.e. talking about It and mutually understanding about It, we

are blessed with our wonderful Group. That is of course Lord’s grace only.

 

 

 

May I add, once one is “gata sandehahaha” no more resorting to Sadhana as he has

“obtained” what was already obtained, i.e “pratasya praptam”.

 

 

 

In this context, “Sarva dharmAn parityAjya, mAmEkam sharaNam vraja…”was

interpreted as “leave all notions about Dharmas, i.e. Dharmas would release one,

and surrender to Me, i.e. to Knowledge”. Here one is not asked to leave the

Dharmas, but the notions about Dharmas, i.e. abiding to a Dharmic way would make

one happy or release one. In other words, it is not a Sadhana for removal of

ignorance about the Self. I cannot remember where I read this interpretation.

So, even after “confusion/doubt” is gone, one can continue fulfilling the

Dharmas, but not as Sadhana, but just for “loka sangraha” i.e. welfare of the

Loka, world.

 

IMHO, the only “Practice” involved in Advaita Vedanta is “tat chintanam, tat

kadhanam and tat parasparabodhanam” and that too till one is “gata sandehah”.

 

Warm Regards to all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Maniji and Adiji.

 

Thanks, Maniji. Wonderful understanding.

 

Just a small clarification:

 

I quoted sarva dharmAn parityAjya not to point out that dharmAs

should be given up. If you read my message in question further down,

I have meant it to mean our false identifications. That I am sure is

what you mean by our notions about dharma.

 

To illustrate, I am a husband because I am married. That is just a

role I play. I picked that role enroute. There was a time I was a

bachelor and not husband. That imposes transience on the role vis a

vis my real nature as Atman. Since the role is in our jada

vyAvahArika, I have to understand (from the point of view

of 'karmaNyakarma pashyEd' we discussed earlier)that, as Atman, my

husband role is a mere superimposition on Atman and treat it as

such. That doesn't involve the abdication of bhartrudharma but only

my false identification with or wrong notion about it. The same

applies to my pitrudharma in the role of a father of two daughters in

the vyAvahArika. This understanding is thus extended to all the

roles that I play as a member of my community, as a citizen of my

country and the world at large, as an employee or employer, as a

Member of this List, and so on and it becomes the fulcrum of all my

activities. It is when such operation becomes spontaneous without

any need for me to remind me about my real nature as Atman that I

become 'gata sandEhah'. Yet, my activities (inaction in action)

continue. In other words, knowing what I really am, I am least

concerned about when the activities will end. I am always available

for whatever roles Consciousness presents because I am purely

Consciousness. However, I am not after roles.

 

Adiji, that takes me to your post where you mentioned social

commitment. When I am spontaneous with the knowledge that I am

Atman, I don't any more hunt for roles. If my current situation

demands a social commitment, I am just fully available. I don't have

to deliberately don the mantle of a saviour and airdash to Ethiopia

or some other part of the world because I hear that a famine or some

other calamity is ravaging that place. I can at best take care of an

orphaned child right in my sight, if that is within my means, and

pray for those who are suffering elsewhere. We have the best prayer

in the world in lOkAh samastAh sukhinO bhavantu which I understand

as "Let all that I see be happy and auspicious". That is a direct

invocation to the Consciousness that I am to manifest as a world of

beauty, love and peace.

 

Extolling Mahatma Gandhi, a Malayalam poet sang:

 

For him, when engaged in serious business, even a jungle is a golden

assembly hall, and when immersed in blemishless samAdhi, even a noisy

market-place is a silent mountain-cave. That vibes well with your

Vivekananda quote.

 

Thanks and praNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

_____________________________

 

advaitin, "R.S.MANI" <r_s_mani> wrote:

>

> In this context, "Sarva dharmAn parityAjya, mAmEkam sharaNam

vraja…"was interpreted as "leave all notions about Dharmas, i.e.

Dharmas would release one, and surrender to Me, i.e. to Knowledge".

Here one is not asked to leave the Dharmas, but the notions about

Dharmas, i.e. abiding to a Dharmic way would make one happy or

release one. In other words, it is not a Sadhana for removal of

ignorance about the Self. I cannot remember where I read this

interpretation. So, even after "confusion/doubt" is gone, one can

continue fulfilling the Dharmas, but not as Sadhana, but just

for "loka sangraha" i.e. welfare of the Loka, world.

>

> IMHO, the only "Practice" involved in Advaita Vedanta is "tat

chintanam, tat kadhanam and tat parasparabodhanam" and that too till

one is "gata sandehah".

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Nairji and others

 

<<<That I am sure is what you mean by our notions about dharma.>>>

 

You are absolutely right and with my understanding of the spirit of this

particular verse.

 

All Roles that we play are casual. Whenever there is a confusion or problem in

playing a particular role, as Arjuna asked “Karishye tava vachanam”, let us ask

that determined Budhi where Lord Krishna shines as Knowledge, for guidance, and

let us not resort to any reaction under any circumstances while we play the

roles. In short, let all our actions be guided by Lord Krishna, i.e. That

Knowledge, which, if not gained in this life, it will be “Mahatee Nashtaha” (the

great loss).

 

ON THIS AUSPICIOUS DAY OF JANASHTAMI, LET US, AS ARJUNA DID, OFFER OUR HUMBLE

NAMASKARAMS TO OUR BELOVED LORD AGAIN AND AGAIN FROM ALL DIRECTIONS, FOR HIS

EVER FLOWING GRACE, AND LET US PRAY TO HIM TO HELP US TO RECOGNIZE AND

ACKNOWLEDGE THAT GRACE ALL THE TIME.

 

Warm Regards

 

 

 

 

Madathil Rajendran Nair <madathilnair wrote:Namaste Maniji and Adiji.

 

Thanks, Maniji. Wonderful understanding.

 

Just a small clarification:

advaitin/

 

advaitin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Mani-Ji and Madathi-Ji:

 

Could the understanding of the term "sanaatana" help us understand

the concept of dharma as well?

 

sannatana is usually interpreted as everlasting, eternal, permanent

perpetual, ancient and also as "nitya nutan"? Could this also be

adding to some confusion? If yes, then how does one establish the

relative equivelance?

 

satyanaarayaNa puujaa ends with a statement -"bahaviShyati kalau

satya-vrata-ruupii sanaatanaH", which has always some what puzzled me.

 

Thank you for your thoughts.

 

Regards,

 

Yadunath

 

advaitin, "R.S.MANI" <r_s_mani> wrote:

>

>

>

> Namaste Sri Nairji and others

>

> <<<That I am sure is what you mean by our notions about dharma.>>>

>

> You are absolutely right and with my understanding of the spirit of

this particular verse.

>

> All Roles that we play are casual. Whenever there is a confusion

or problem in playing a particular role, as Arjuna asked "Karishye

tava vachanam", let us ask that determined Budhi where Lord Krishna

shines as Knowledge, for guidance, and let us not resort to any

reaction under any circumstances while we play the roles. In short,

let all our actions be guided by Lord Krishna, i.e. That Knowledge,

which, if not gained in this life, it will be "Mahatee Nashtaha" (the

great loss).

[Guest guest]

Thank you Nair-ji for a well drafted reply ... Like our beloved

Chitta, you are blessed with 'eloquence' and 'felicity of language'

and therefore, as usual , simple folks like me are left in 'awe' !

smiles!!!

 

You brought up an interesting point - that of playing different

roles...

 

YES ! We all play different roles to play at different times of our

life ....

 

As a husband and a father , you have your duties as a care-giver and

a provider for your family, among other things! This is your *swa-

dharma !* is it not ?

 

but about the higher Role in life ? That of Ishwar-dharma or vishwa-

dharma or samajic dharma? Is that not the real meaning of 'expanded

consciousness'?

 

 

As our beloved Gandhi-ji would say "God is not a person. God is an

eternal principle."

 

and , Nair-ji , is this paro-dharma ( the greatest good of the

greatest number ) not the eternal Dharma?

 

You are right, we NEED not travel all the way to ETHIOPIA to help the

famine stricken victims there or go to Hurricane hit Florida to help

with the relief efforts there etc .... but does not our conscience

tell us that we can help the less-fortunate all over the Globe

sitting right where we are by arousing 'collective consciousness'?

Prayer certainly helps, no doubt! But, i am talking about 'higher'

things.... "paropakaram idham shariram" - this body is meant for the

service of others! Jana seva -Janardhana seva -SERVING THE PEOPLE IS

SERVING THE LORD? where does "Adwaita" fit in this scheme of things?

 

In his address at the Rameswaram Temple on "Real Worship", Swami

Vivekananda, on his return from the West in 1897, rightly exhorted

the audience present there: "He who sees Siva in the poor, in the

weak and in the diseased really worships Siva; and if he sees Siva

only in the image, his worship is but preliminary. He who has served

one poor man seeing Siva in him, without thinking of his caste or

creed or race or anything, with him Siva is more pleased than with

the man who sees Him only in temples. He who wants to serve the

father, must serve the children first. He who wants to serve Siva

must serve His children must serve all creatures in this world first".

 

IS THIS NOT THE HIGHEST FORM OF NISHKAMA KARMA ?

 

The very first verse of Isa Upanishad says ...

 

"All this, whatsoever exists in the universe, should be covered by

the Lord. Having renounced (the unreal), enjoy (the Real). Do not

covet the wealth of any man."

 

AUM SHANTI! SHANTI! SHANTIHI!!!

[Guest guest]

Namaste Dr. Yaduji.

 

Yes. It is sanAtana dharma. I believe the implication is that,

dharma although ancient is nitya nUtan because, in essence, it is

applicable to all situations both ancient and modern. It is simply

universal.

 

Although I have seen Satya Narayana PujAs being performed in my

Bombay days, I have never participated in them. I cannot, therefore,

say anything about the significance of the mantra quoted by you. If

my understanding of the transliteration is right, it sounds something

like "sambhavAmi yugE yugE". I believe this is an area where Adiji

can come up with some brilliant insights.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

_______________

 

 

advaitin, "ymoharir" <ymoharir> wrote:

> Could the understanding of the term "sanaatana" help us understand

> the concept of dharma as well?

>

> sannatana is usually interpreted as everlasting, eternal, permanent

> perpetual, ancient and also as "nitya nutan"? Could this also be

> adding to some confusion? If yes, then how does one establish the

> relative equivelance?

>

> satyanaarayaNa puujaa ends with a statement -"bahaviShyati kalau

> satya-vrata-ruupii sanaatanaH", which has always some what puzzled

me.

[Guest guest]

Namaste Adiji.

 

First of all thanks for your good sentiments.

 

I can't have any disagreement with your thoughts on social commitment

on national and universal planes.

 

I was, in fact, targeting those who 'don the mantle of saviours', by

which expression, I clearly meant people who engage in welfare

matters with a sense of agency or doership. Don't we see people who

brag a lot about the welfare work they are doing? They are the ones

who hunt for roles. If their efforts don't get the expected

recognition, they are necessarily peeved and upset. They visit

forsaken lands with TV crew and reporters accompanying them, whereas

the one who is not after roles, does his part as best as he can in

absolute silence. He has no sense of dissatisfaction if what he has

done to his best falls short of the expected result. Neither is he

overjoyed, when the results are glorious.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

[Guest guest]

dear aadi shakti,

"sahasra sheersha purusha :

sahasraaksha sahasra paad---",

says purusha sooktham.

here, sahasra does not mean "1000".

here , sahasra means " all", " everything".

therefore, sahasra sheersha means,

sheersha of all creations, sheersha of every living

being-- head of all men of all nativities and, women

of all nativities, all animals-- dogs, pigs, donkeys,

amoebae-----.

it follows that when you worship this

sahasra sheersha purusha in the form of vishnu or

shiva or shakti or subrahmanya or ganesha or any other

form , you are actually worshipping the universe!.

can you beat our maharishies in the art

of expressing the science of advaita ??!!

a.v.krshnan.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- adi_shakthi16 <adi_shakthi16 wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

> Thank you Nair-ji for a well drafted reply ... Like

> our beloved

> Chitta, you are blessed with 'eloquence' and

> 'felicity of language'

> and therefore, as usual , simple folks like me are

> left in 'awe' !

> smiles!!!

>

> You brought up an interesting point - that of

> playing different

> roles...

>

> YES ! We all play different roles to play at

> different times of our

> life ....

>

> As a husband and a father , you have your duties as

> a care-giver and

> a provider for your family, among other things! This

> is your *swa-

> dharma !* is it not ?

>

> but about the higher Role in life ? That of

> Ishwar-dharma or vishwa-

> dharma or samajic dharma? Is that not the real

> meaning of 'expanded

> consciousness'?

>

>

> As our beloved Gandhi-ji would say "God is not a

> person. God is an

> eternal principle."

>

> and , Nair-ji , is this paro-dharma ( the greatest

> good of the

> greatest number ) not the eternal Dharma?

>

> You are right, we NEED not travel all the way to

> ETHIOPIA to help the

> famine stricken victims there or go to Hurricane hit

> Florida to help

> with the relief efforts there etc .... but does not

> our conscience

> tell us that we can help the less-fortunate all over

> the Globe

> sitting right where we are by arousing 'collective

> consciousness'?

> Prayer certainly helps, no doubt! But, i am talking

> about 'higher'

> things.... "paropakaram idham shariram" - this body

> is meant for the

> service of others! Jana seva -Janardhana seva

> -SERVING THE PEOPLE IS

> SERVING THE LORD? where does "Adwaita" fit in this

> scheme of things?

>

> In his address at the Rameswaram Temple on "Real

> Worship", Swami

> Vivekananda, on his return from the West in 1897,

> rightly exhorted

> the audience present there: "He who sees Siva in the

> poor, in the

> weak and in the diseased really worships Siva; and

> if he sees Siva

> only in the image, his worship is but preliminary.

> He who has served

> one poor man seeing Siva in him, without thinking of

> his caste or

> creed or race or anything, with him Siva is more

> pleased than with

> the man who sees Him only in temples. He who wants

> to serve the

> father, must serve the children first. He who wants

> to serve Siva

> must serve His children must serve all creatures in

> this world first".

>

> IS THIS NOT THE HIGHEST FORM OF NISHKAMA KARMA ?

>

> The very first verse of Isa Upanishad says ...

>

> "All this, whatsoever exists in the universe, should

> be covered by

> the Lord. Having renounced (the unreal), enjoy (the

> Real). Do not

> covet the wealth of any man."

>

> AUM SHANTI! SHANTI! SHANTIHI!!!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

_________ALL-NEW

Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Namaste all.

 

For information on the four qualifications that an aspirant should

possess as enumerated by Sankara in his Tattva BhOdha, please visit:

http://www.yogaadvaita.org/text/jnana2.shtml.

 

In short, the qualifications are:

 

1. Viveka - Discrimination between the Real and the unreal

2. Vairagya - Dispassion, detachment

3. Shad-sampat - The six virtues, which are (a) Sama (tranquility

or control of mind, calmness, equanimity in all situations), (b)

Dama (control of the senses – passions), © Uparati (renunciation

of activities which are not duties), (d) Titiksha (endurance,

forbearance of the pairs of opposites, also tolerance), (e) shraddha

(Faith in the words of the teacher and scriptures), (e) Samadhana

(perfect concentration, one-pointedness of the mind, equipoise)

4. Mumukshutva - Intense longing for liberation

 

Now to the sAdhana part and about Shravana, Manana and NidhinyAsa:

 

1. Shravana entails reading scriptures, their interpretations,

listening to their reading and listening to the words of teachers.

2. Manana is the recapitulation of what has been read, discussed and

listened to.

3. NidhinyAsa is assimilation or absorption of the meaning of what

has been read, heard and recapitulated and putting the resultant

understanding, personal insights and knowledge into practice.

Literally, living the knowledge assimilated.

 

The living implied by nidhinyAsa has been succinctly mentioned by

Sankara in Vakya Vritti (12) below:

 

"Give up the intellectual misconception that the Self is the body,

etc., and always meditate upon and think yourself to be the eternal

Knowledge-Bliss – the Witness of the intellect – a sheer mass of Pure

Knowledge". (Translation: Sw. Chinmayanandaji)

 

What happens then? Again, Sankara in AtmabOdha (5):

 

"Constant practice of knowledge purifies the Self (`Jivatman'),

stained by ignorance and then disappears itself – as the powder of

the `Kataka-nut' settles down after it has cleansed the muddy water."

(Translation: Sw. Chinmayanandaji)

 

No more practice thenceforth! Let us then trudge along the path of

sAdhanA till the powder settles.

 

One will find all one wants to know for manana in Sankara's UpadEsha

Sahasri. Please read our Kenji here at

http://www.geocities.com/advaitavedant/upadesasah.htm (for Part I -

Prose - of this work). All of Sankara's works are excellent for

manana. I specifically recommend UpadEsha Sahasri because in the

very beginning of it itself, Sankara says it is prescribed for those

who have an intense desire for liberation (mumukshatwam) and faith

(shraddha).

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair"

<madathilnair> wrote:

> Now to the sAdhana part and about Shravana, Manana and NidhinyAsa:

>

> 1. Shravana entails reading scriptures, their interpretations,

> listening to their reading and listening to the words of teachers.

> 2. Manana is the recapitulation of what has been read, discussed and

> listened to.

> 3. NidhinyAsa is assimilation or absorption of the meaning of what

> has been read, heard and recapitulated and putting the resultant

> understanding, personal insights and knowledge into practice.

> Literally, living the knowledge assimilated.

 

Namaste,

 

Interestingly, in the Gita, Krishna asks Arjuna to 'listen' -

shR^iNu - 14 times! uses the word 'abhyAsa' 6 times, and

'vimR^ishya' once [18:63], ending with "yathechchhasi tathA kuru" (do

as you please)!

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

(P.S. The modem on my P.C. 'died' over the long week-end, which

extended my 'mouna' beyond the scheduled duration! Hope none was

inconvenienced.)

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunderji.

 

Please forget about the PC. PCs come and go. We have faith in you -

you won't give us up! Of course, I wondered where you were.

 

By the way, is Ramji's PC also down? We haven't seen him in the last

few days. In one of my replies to Shri Dennis Travis a couple of

days ago, I had drawn his attention to the problem of ad links

getting inserted in quoted posts. Any advice on that front?

 

Regards.

 

Madathil Nair

______________

 

advaitin, "Sunder Hattangadi" <sunderh>

wrote:

> (P.S. The modem on my P.C. 'died' over the long week-end, which

> extended my 'mouna' beyond the scheduled duration! Hope none was

> inconvenienced.)

[Guest guest]

I have no clue to how my post to Sunderji appeared thrice.

Magic! Sorry for the inconveience.

 

Madathil Nair

[Guest guest]

The current discussion has provoked the following piece of verse.

 

Ananda

 

 

 

Practical philosophy

--------------------

 

The practice of advaita is

to go beyond all action done

by any doing instrument --

by any body, sense or mind.

 

But how can this be practical?

Just how, in fact, can any practice

lead to an impartial truth

uncompromised by any acts

of partial doing in the world?

 

Such partial doing is the work

of instruments that act as objects,

acting upon other objects

in a world of different things.

 

Each physical or mental object

is a partial piece of world.

Wherever it takes part in action

as an instrument that acts,

its doing is thus incomplete.

 

In all such instrumental doing

partiality remains.

What's thereby done leaves something out

and thus remains inadequate.

There's always something left undone --

some further work that must be done,

to make what is achieved complete.

 

As truth is sought, the search for it

at first goes out through instruments

of mind and body in the world.

 

Seen going out, the search proceeds

to put together partial pieces

body sees and mind conceives --

thus building pictures of the world

that are refined by schools of thought,

deriving and explaining them

in reasoned systems of belief.

 

But when the search gets genuine,

it must turn back upon itself --

to question just those instruments

through which the pictures have been built,

through which their concepts and beliefs

are made refined and logical.

 

What's now in question is the

questioner's own partiality.

The instruments that question are

thus opened up to question here.

 

It is not someone else's fond

beliefs or attitudes or thoughts

or feelings or assumptions that

are now unearthed and left behind

in search of more impartial truth.

 

The questions dig back underneath

the questioner's own fancied feet;

so that it is the questioner

who has to fall unsettlingly,

wherever any compromise

with partiality is found

to taint what's taken to be true.

 

All views of world, all schools of thought

all structured systems of ideas,

are only theories -- made up

to gain objectives in the world.

Such theories are dependent on

technology, to put their ideas

into practical effect.

 

But this is not how reason works

in actual philosophy.

 

The practice of philosophy

is just its turned-back questioning --

which reasons inward, to the source

from where all thoughts and questions rise.

 

And that is only genuine

where it is done for love of truth,

which goes beyond all partial wish

for any object in the world.

 

And there, where reason questions back

for love of truth and truth alone,

it is directly practical.

 

For it directly clarifies

what's seen and felt and understood,

as it proceeds from what appears

to what is plain and simply true.

[Guest guest]

Hi Ananda,

 

Nice to hear from you! Thanks for the poetic blank-verse evocation of the

questioning process!

 

--Greg

 

At 05:10 AM 9/11/2004 +0530, Ananda Wood wrote:

>The current discussion has provoked the following piece of verse.

>

>Ananda

 

....