The Self | "Self Unknowable?"THE PLACE OF PRACTICE IN ADVAITA-VEDANTA

[Guest guest]

Sri Konark writes

 

<<<I like to think of the Self as unknowable as you can only know something

which you can observe.... and to observe something, the observer must be

separate from the observed. Since the self is the observer, hence it cannot be

observed and hence we cannot attribute properties to it and hence it is

unknowable. It just exists and it is there - and that is as much as we can know

about our Self. That is my opinion.>>>

 

The Self or Atma is self-evident. When you say “you think of Self” the

self-evident Atma is there. Self-evident things do not require any evidence. For

example to know there is light from a candle burning, you do not require to

light another candle and search for.

 

Kena Upnanishad says:

 

“Pratibodha viditam matam”

 

In every piece of knowledge, the background for that knowledge is Self only and

it shines itself.

 

The attempt of the Upanishads is not to establish the existence of the Self, as

it is known to every one as “I”. The Upanishads unfolds the true nature or

swaroopa of this Self as Satyam Gnanam and Anantham and since it is Anantham

that is Poorna, lacking nothing, it is Anandam or Happiness itself.

 

Further when you say “we cannot attribute properties to it and hence it is

unknowable” I am afraid we are not attributing any properties to anything. It is

our attempt to attribute properties to objects, including the Self, creates all

the problems. Yet, we do this because of ignorance real nature of the Self and

the objects. Whatever observed have their own properties, rather attributes. For

example, we have many attributes, but once the attributes are striped of, is

there anything that remains? There must be, as properties or attributes require

some platform, substratum.

 

 

 

Hari Om

 

 

Konark Saxena <konark_saxena wrote:

advaitin/

 

advaitin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages!

 

 

[Guest guest]

I think Shri Mani and I are saying the same thing, though we are

stressing on two different aspects of the same reality.

 

I totally agree that the Self is 'Self-evident'. When I said 'It just

exists and it is there', that is exactly what I meant. When all the

properties are striped off from our mind and body, that which remains

is the Self - I totally agree with what Shri Mani said.

 

What I was trying to say when mentioning that I think the Self is

unknowable is that we can not assign attibutes to it and it is a futile

exercise to try and do so. Only when we transcend all attempts to try

to attribute properties to the Self, only then do we manage to realise

it and accept that it is self-evident and does not require a proof of

its existence. This acceptance of its self-evidence is Atma-Gyan or

Self-Realisation. And one when we realise our self, then we experience

the tremendous bliss or Ananand that accompanises the relisation of the

Self.

 

I hope I have understood you right Shri Mani

 

-Konark

 

"R.S.MANI" <r_s_mani wrote:

 

 

 

Sri Konark writes

 

<<>>

 

The Self or Atma is self-evident. When you say “you think of Self” the

self-evident Atma is there. Self-evident things do not require any

evidence. For example to know there is light from a candle burning, you

do not require to light another candle and search for.

 

Kena Upnanishad says:

 

“Pratibodha viditam matam”

 

In every piece of knowledge, the background for that knowledge is Self

only and it shines itself.

 

The attempt of the Upanishads is not to establish the existence of the

Self, as it is known to every one as “I”. The Upanishads unfolds the

true nature or swaroopa of this Self as Satyam Gnanam and Anantham and

since it is Anantham that is Poorna, lacking nothing, it is Anandam or

Happiness itself.

 

Further when you say “we cannot attribute properties to it and hence it

is unknowable” I am afraid we are not attributing any properties to

anything. It is our attempt to attribute properties to objects,

including the Self, creates all the problems. Yet, we do this because

of ignorance real nature of the Self and the objects. Whatever observed

have their own properties, rather attributes. For example, we have many

attributes, but once the attributes are striped of, is there anything

that remains? There must be, as properties or attributes require some

platform, substratum.

 

 

 

Hari Om

 

 

Konark Saxena wrote:

 

 

advaitin/

 

 

advaitin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity

of Atman and Brahman.

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=====

-----------

~Those who think that something is impossible

should not interfere with those who are willing to do it ~

-----------

[Guest guest]

Namaste, Sri Kokarkji,

 

It seems I could not really catch up with what you were trying to say in your

earlier mail.

 

That prompted me to post my mail responding to your mail.

 

 

 

Hari Om

 

 

Konark Saxena <konark_saxena wrote:I think Shri Mani and I are saying

the same thing, though we are

stressing on two different aspects of the same reality.

 

 

 

 

 

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