"Questions" PoPinAV

[Guest guest]

Respected Members,

 

I have some basic questions and seek help from our learned members.

 

First of all, with regard to Moksha, which, it “appears” to be the basis for our

seeking, what exactly is this Moksha? We cannot seek anything unless we have

knowledge about what is sought.

 

What is our knowledge about Moksha?

 

What happens to one who has attained Moksha? We have heard of many people who

have attained Moksha, but is there any one who has said that he has attained

Moksha? Is it not we, who say so and so attained Moksha? What is the basis for

our saying so?

 

Are we really seeking Moksha or something else?

 

If Moksha entails no further birth, why are we afraid of being borne again or

why do we not want to be borne again? In this contest, we come across

statements such as “God has created human beings for realizing Him”? Does it not

amount to saying that God has created me so that I can get Moksha?

 

I somehow cannot understand why God create me just for the sake of my realizing

Him?

 

Is “having-born-and-living-now-to-welcome-death” is our real problem?

 

Is Moksha Liberation or deliverance, if so, Liberation from what?

 

Is it liberation from “suffering”/ “unhappiness”?

 

What is the reason for suffering or what are the factors those contribute

towards suffering?

 

Are those factors external/outside the one who is suffering, physical, mental,

religious, spiritual?

 

Do we have control on those factors?

 

If we cannot have control on those factors, who can control them?

 

Is God responsible for those factors? Being God, why should He or It create

those factors? Is it a part of His Leela or Sport? Why should He have such a

sport which entails suffering for us?

 

What is Bhakti’s role in this context?

 

Bhakti or deep love cannot be there unless there is knowledge of the object of

Bhakti? When we say Bhakti towards God, what is that knowledge we have about

God?

 

Is that knowledge “God is responsible for our suffering and He alone can remove

our suffering”?

 

What exactly is “Bhakti for Bhakti’s sake” or “Love for Love’s sake” which we

hear in the contest of Bhakti?

 

Is Bhakti an Action? Is it an emotion? Does it take place in one, or one has to

work for it to take place?

 

Can one practice or is there any practice involved in Bhakti?

 

Is praising God Bhakti? If so, why should one praise God? Is it to please God?

If so, why is it necessary to please God? To attain liberation? To escape from

suffering/unhappiness?

 

Pardon me if my questions appear as if coming from an insane person?

 

May I look forward to some discussions in the context of our discussion topic

“Place of Practice in Advaita Vedanta”?

 

Warm regards

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste Maniji.

 

Your questions are 'Q' and my answers thereto are 'A' below:

 

 

Q. First of all, with regard to Moksha, which, it "appears" to be

the basis for our seeking, what exactly is this Moksha? We cannot

seek anything unless we have knowledge about what is sought.

 

A. MOksha is freedom from your false understanding of yourself.

Right knowledge of yourself grants this freedom. X, a richman, is

deluded and thinks that he is Y, a poor man, and suffers from the

delusion. When he is made to know that he is really X, the richman,

he is freed from his false poverty. In mOksha, you are freed from

your self-imposed false limitations and bondage. While working for

that freedom, you `know' that you are really free from scriptures and

words of preceptors but yet unable to `be' really free.

 

 

Q. What is our knowledge about Moksha?

 

A. Answered above. It can be further elaborated as freedom from all

that bind you and make you suffer.

 

Q. What happens to one who has attained Moksha?

 

A. You understand your real nature. You are then what you really

are.

 

 

Q. We have heard of many people who have attained Moksha, but is

there any one who has said that he has attained Moksha?

 

A. Not to my knowledge has anyone said that he has attained mOksha.

I doubt if any one in his right senses will make such a claim. Poor

man Y, who is really rich man X, won't say he has `attained' riches

when he realizes that he is really rich man X. The richness here is

an `already attained', about which X was simply unaware due to his

delusion as Y. Upon realization, he may at best say like our

Arjuna `naStO mOha'. He is then 'gata sandEha'.

 

Q. Is it not we, who say so and so attained Moksha? What is the

basis for our saying so?

 

A. If you have said so about anyone, then you can very well answer

your question.

 

Q. Are we really seeking Moksha or something else?

 

A. We are seeking mOksha in the sense that we are trying to

understand ourselves in the light of scriptures and vEdantic

teachings.

 

Q. If Moksha entails no further birth, why are we afraid of being

borne again or why do we not want to be borne again?

 

A. The right understanding of yourself tells you that you were never

born. Then, where is the question of rebirth?

 

Q. In this contest, we come across statements such as "God has

created human beings for realizing Him"? Does it not amount to saying

that God has created me so that I can get Moksha?

 

I somehow cannot understand why God create me just for the sake of my

realizing Him?

 

A. You brought in a God here. Is it at all necessary when all that

you are set to know is your real nature. You are not out to realize

God's real nature. Well, there is such a concept of an Almighty

imposed on our spiritual paths and theologies. When you finally

understand yourself, that concept is automatically rescinded. You

don't then need any concept of a God to work with.

 

Q. Is "having-born-and-living-now-to-welcome-death" is our real

problem?

 

A. It is the problem of the one bound – one who doesn't understand

himself - like poverty is the problem of richman X who thinks that he

is poor man Y. The wise are not plagued by ideas of birth and death,

as they know that only objects (body included) change in time and

die. They know that they are really immortal.

 

Q. Is Moksha Liberation or deliverance, if so, Liberation from what?

 

A. Already answered above.

 

Q. Is it liberation from "suffering"/ "unhappiness"?

 

A. Liberation from the false understanding of one's real nature that

is the reason for all suffering and unhappiness.

 

Q. What is the reason for suffering or what are the factors those

contribute towards suffering?

 

A. There is only one reason and that is your false notion of being

caged and bound – being limited, shackled, fettered, isolated and

unfree, when you are not really so.

 

Q. Are those factors external/outside the one who is suffering,

physical, mental, religious, spiritual?

 

A. Good question. From the point of view of your real nature, these

factors don't exist, like from the point of view of richman X, the

sufferings of poor man Y don't really exist. From the point of view

of poor man Y, they are `real' and can manifest as suffering in all

the spheres identified by you.

 

Q. Do we have control on those factors?

 

A. As poor man Y, there is no control, as long as you are adamantly

bent on perpetuating your ignorance about yourself. Yet, you are

endowed with an option to correct your understanding and know that

your sufferings are a delusion. This option seems to be in-built and

falls within the realm of free-will and destiny, about which there is

hell of a lot of discussion in our archives. As rich man X, you don't

have any need to control the `factors' because they are then non-

existent.

 

Q. If we cannot have control on those factors, who can control them?

 

 

A. The answer above answers.

 

Q. Is God responsible for those factors? Being God, why should He or

It create those factors? Is it a part of His Leela or Sport? Why

should He have such a sport which entails suffering for us?

 

A. I would take God here to be Grace – the Grace that makes you

exercise your option to understand yourself. It is your ignorance of

the existence of this Grace that makes you perpetuate your suffering

and not do anything to save the situation. That Grace is very much

within you and not an external entity.

 

Q. What is Bhakti's role in this context?

 

A. Bhakti would then entail your invoking this Grace to help you

cross the sea of your delusion. This bhakti is different from the

ultimate bhakti of advaita as it is the bhakti of a bhakta. Bhakta is

a role here. Please refer to my previous message for my understanding

of advaitic bhakti where I have equated bhakti to jnAna and Love and

pointed out that the hithertofore bhakta ultimately understands

himself to be bhakti that is both Love and jnAna.

 

Q. Bhakti or deep love cannot be there unless there is knowledge of

the object of Bhakti? When we say Bhakti towards God, what is that

knowledge we have about God?

 

A. It is the knowledge of the Grace that is within you whereby you

come to know that you have an option to understand yourself and the

means to attain that understanding.

 

 

Q. Is that knowledge "God is responsible for our suffering and He

alone can remove our suffering"?

 

A. That Grace is not responsible for your suffering. If invoked, It

can help you realize that there is no sufferer after all. What then

to say about suffering?

 

Q. What exactly is "Bhakti for Bhakti's sake" or "Love for Love's

sake" which we hear in the contest of Bhakti?

 

A. In my earlier message, I have equated bhakti and universal love.

I would therefore imagine `bhakti for bhakti's sake' to be true

advaitic bhakti where you are Love and one with everything with all

your misconceptions removed.

 

Q. Is Bhakti an Action? Is it an emotion? Does it take place in one,

or one has to work for it to take place?

 

A. Invoking Grace involves both action and emotion. It arises from

realizing one's helplessness. When one knows that one is helpless,

then doesn't one need to work for help which comes in the form of

teachers and texts.

 

Q. Can one practice or is there any practice involved in Bhakti?

 

A. Whatever one does to invoke Grace is a practice. Isn't it?

 

Q. Is praising God Bhakti? If so, why should one praise God? Is it

to please God? If so, why is it necessary to please God? To attain

liberation? To escape from suffering/unhappiness?

 

A. Praising Grace in any envisioned form whatever is stuti. It is

an effective methodology prescribed by teachers including Sankara.

It is very much in our culture. Why then question it as long as it

is efficacious? In the correct advaitic sense, you are pleasing

yourself to reveal yourself to know that you are after all happiness

and there is no unhappiness whatsoever.

 

Hope I have answered your questions to the best of my ability. It is

beyond me to understand why, of all, Maniji, you should ask such

questions. I have given my understanding in order to continue our

discussion on this thread. But, I have an overwhelming feeling that

after all I have carried tonnes of coal to New Castle.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

[Guest guest]

Thank you very much Sri Nairji, I shall be back after a few days, as I have to

be away for some time.

Pranams to you all

 

Madathil Rajendran Nair <madathilnair wrote:

Namaste Maniji.

 

Your questions are 'Q' and my answers thereto are 'A' below:

advaitin/

 

advaitin

 

 

 

 

 

 

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