Place of Practice in Advaita Vedanta

[Guest guest]

Namaste, Sri Nairji,

 

Thanks for having gone thru my mail. The discussions between you and Sri

Dennisji did arouse interest in me to ponder into the question of Witness.

 

If my understanding is correct, 'Mritchakatikam' is a Sanskrit Drama, and I do

not know wrote it. I am not very sure about that. The verses I quoted are from

"Panchadasi" by Sri Vidyaranya Swami, which is a Prakarana Grandha usually

taught to Advaita Vedanta students.

 

I agree with you even the idea of witness is witnessed by the Witness.

 

There is no moment when Witness is absent, whether there is anything to be

witnessed or not to be witnessed.

 

There is no action on the part of That Witness while witnessing and That Witness

itself gets falsified once what is witnessed is falsified on the wake of "Aham

Brahmasmi". However, it is not correct to use the word "falsify", but it is used

just only for understanding, as there is neither falsification of anything nor

giving reality to anything.

 

One cannot rather need not falsify anything which is in fact not there and one

need not rather cannot give reality to a thing which is in fact real.

 

Where will be the so-called “falsifier” as Ekam eva Adviteeyam Brahma?

 

That is also my understanding, yes ONLY “UNDERSTANDING”.

 

With pranams and Hari Om to all

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste to all Advaitins,

 

Is practice relevant in Advaita Vedanta?

 

For one that has Self Knowledge, there is no agency of action and

hence the question of practice does not arise.

 

But for one that has no Self-Knowledge, practice is inevitable

because one is helplessly driven to practice whether one wants to

practice or not. Most of us are ceaselessly practicing already - the

practice of acquiring wealth and property, the practice of securing

position and fame, the practice of securing people's affection, and

sometimes the practice of subtle self-deception. We are prisoners of

our own practices. The practice of Advaita sadhana is the redirection

of energy towards the recognition of the Self's non-action in the

action-filled practices of our lives. To that end is the practice of

Advaita directed – to sacrifice each practice on the altar of Non-

duality. The practice of Advaita-Vedanta is not the stoppage of

action, but is its sublimation into Pure Light.

 

Practice in itself cannot bring about knowledge. Knowledge is not the

result of action. Knowledge is an inversion of perspective where

suddenly there is no action. It is the Knowledge where all action is

seen as object of knowledge. Self-Knowledge includes action as the

known in the actionlessness of the unmoved Knower. There is no path

to it because it is not a moving from here to there. It is a flood of

Pure Light -- it is the Self-Knowledge that comes from Grace. Grace

is not something that is given because it is always flowing. It is

the receiving of Grace that is in our hands. To make ourselves fit to

receive Grace is the practice of Advaita Vedanta.

 

Action cannot lead to Knowledge. Action can only lead to further

action in accordance with the inexorable wheel of dharma. Action is

imprisoned within this unending chain of causality. Practice in

Advaita is the redirecting of actions to bear fruits that are

conducive for the clarity of Advaitic vision. Merely saying that

nothing needs to be done because the Self is a pure witness is

ignorance of the law of causality. DOING NOTHING CANNOT BE DONE. The

restless mind carries away the senses of the unwary traveler and

calls him or her to the prison-yoke of action. I may want to do

nothing. I may tell myself that doing something for obtaining

knowledge is further entrenching myself in the world because the Self

does not act. I may tell myself that I am already the Self that is

already realized and that therefore nothing needs to be done. All

this is self-deception. If I have a need to tell myself that nothing

needs to be done, I am already a prisoner of action, and then I must

act along the stream that sweeps me helplessly in its currents.

Whether I want to or not, I cannot escape the inexorable wheel of

dharma by mere inaction. The tidal wave of actions is set in motion

in the past and it cannot be stopped today. It will find its way into

my life sooner or later. It is not enough to say that the Self is a

mere witness and that I need to do nothing, for this saying as well

as the mind that says it will be swept away the next moment by a gale

that comes from a past whence it was set in motion. Sri Ramakrishna

used to say that the shore is calm when a ship passes by, but the

wake of the ship will heave and splash upon the shore after the ship

has passed by. The wheel of dharma grinds slowly but surely, and a

sadhaka needs to recognize that an interval of time separates the

effect from the cause. If I act today, its fruit may come tomorrow or

it may come after a thousand years. Therefore, it is not enough to

say that the Self is the Witness and that I need to do nothing. I

cannot see that the Self is the Witness when my mind is being swept

by a gale. The depth of a lake can be seen when the water is still

and clear. The mind must be made serene for knowledge to shine

through it. Action may not lead to knowledge, but action can lead to

mental storms or to mental serenity. The practice of Advaita is the

direction of our actions in accordance with the Great Way of Dharma

that brings about serenity of mind, for serenity of the mind makes it

a fit receptacle for knowledge. This practice is Karma Yoga.

 

In the Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna tells us to act without seeking

the fruits of our actions. What do these enigmatic words mean? How

can we even begin to act without having in our minds a motive for the

action? The very impulse to act presupposes a motive because the

impulse to act is nothing but a motive. It seems like a contradiction

to say that we should act and yet not seek the fruits of the action

when the motive for the act is itself nothing but the seeking of the

fruit of the action. In order to understand the Lord's instruction,

we must see Sri Krishna's words here in the overall context of the

Bhagavad Gita. For it is also said in the Gita in respect of action

that it is better to perform actions as per one's own dharma,

howsoever poorly they may be done, than to perform well the actions

of another's dharma. Action in Karma Yoga is intimately tied to

dharma. One must not act as driven by the desire for one's own

gratification, but must act as it is in one's dharma to act. KARMA

YOGA IS THE IMPERSONALISATION OF ONE'S ACTIONS. One is governed no

more by one's desire or motive to gratify one's senses and desires,

but by the motive to act in harmony with the dharma of the world –

for it is harmonious for a man to act in accordance with a man's

dharma, and a woman to act in accordance with a woman's dharma, and a

husband to act in accordance with a husband's dharma, and a wife to

act in accordance with a wife's dharma, even as it is harmonious for

a tree to be of the nature of a tree and the bird to be of the nature

of a bird. Such action is not driven by the personal seeking of

fruits, but by the desire to be in harmony with the Nature of the

Lord. Acting in accordance with dharma bears as the fruit of the

action the serenity of harmony. It also brings with it the pleasures

of heaven because a Karma Yogi cannot perform bad actions in the

absence of personal motives, but by then the Karma Yogi has become

impervious to the temptations of pleasures in the very performance of

Karma Yoga. He or she is ready for the immensely greater pleasure of

the Self. He or she is ready for the Grace of Self-Knowledge.

 

With regards,

Chittaranjan

 

 

PS. With regards to doing nothing, it needs to be said that there is

such a valid path in Advaita Vedanta. It is said to be applicable for

a select few sadhakas that are already like the burnt out wick of a

lamp, and for whom knowledge is said to irrupt spontaneously. Theirs

is the path of doing nothing. In Kashmir Shaivism this path is

called "anupaya". It is the path of no path. The sadhaka only

needs "to sit while sitting and eat while eating". It is the perfect

path of Advaita Vedanta. But it is only a Guru that can identify such

a sadhaka. I believe that the lofty principle of doing nothing is

quite misguided as a general prescription.

[Guest guest]

> In the Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna tells us to act

> without seeking

> the fruits of our actions.

PRANAMS TO THE GREAT ADVAITINS,

 

PLEASE!, NO.

KRISHNA HAS NOT , REPEAT NOT , SAID " ACT

WITHOUT EXPECTING ANYTHING "

WHAT HE HAS SAID IS :

" KARMANYA EVA ADHIKAARA HA.

[ YOU HAVE ADHIKARA, CONTROL, OVER

KARMA [ACTIONS ] ONLY ]

MAA PHALESHU, KADAACHANA ---

[ YOU HAVE NO ADHIKAARA, CONTROL,

OVER THE FRUITS OF THE ACTIONS, NEVER.]"

THE WORD "ADHIKAARA" IS COMMON TO BOTH

SENTENCES..

AND THE OPERATIVE WORD IS "ADHIKAARA", NOT

"PHALESHU".

 

with a million apologies to one of these

latter day vasishhttaas,

a.v.krshnan.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste Shri Krishnan-ji,

 

advaitin, av krshnan <avkrshnan> wrote:

> PLEASE!, NO. KRISHNA HAS NOT, REPEAT NOT, SAID "ACT

> WITHOUT EXPECTING ANYTHING". WHAT HE HAS SAID IS:

>

> "KARMANYA EVA ADHIKAARA HA.

> [YOU HAVE ADHIKARA, CONTROL, OVER KARMA [ACTIONS] ONLY]

> MAA PHALESHU, KADAACHANA --- [YOU HAVE NO ADHIKAARA,

> CONTROL, OVER THE FRUITS OF THE ACTIONS, NEVER.]"

> THE WORD "ADHIKAARA" IS COMMON TO BOTH SENTENCES.

> AND THE OPERATIVE WORD IS "ADHIKAARA", NOT "PHALESHU".

>

> with a million apologies to one of these latter day

> vasishhttaas,

 

>From the Bhagavad Gita, Second Discourse, titled

"Sankhya Yoga (Verse 47):

 

"You have control over action alone,

not over the fruits of the action."

 

Which is followed by:

 

"Let not the fruit of action be your motive,

nor let your attachment be for inaction."

 

 

Dear Krishnanji, the flavour of your words gives me the impression

that I have said something very very wrong. When you say, in bold

letters, that "KRISHNA HAS NOT, REPEAT NOT, SAID 'ACT WITHOUT

EXPECTING ANYTHING'" do you mean to say that Lord Krishna prescribes

that we should expect something in return when we act? Is that Karma

Yoga?

 

If I am wrong in what I've said, I would be happy to be corrected.

After all, we are here to share and not merely to point out errors.

 

With regards,

Chittaranjan

[Guest guest]

pranams ,

you will notice that i have concluded the

mail with "a million apologies".

apologies again.

a.v.krshnan.

 

 

--- Chittaranjan Naik <chittaranjan_naik

wrote:

> Namaste Shri Krishnan-ji,

>

> advaitin, av krshnan

> <avkrshnan> wrote:

>

> > PLEASE!, NO. KRISHNA HAS NOT, REPEAT NOT, SAID

> "ACT

> > WITHOUT EXPECTING ANYTHING". WHAT HE HAS SAID IS:

> >

> > "KARMANYA EVA ADHIKAARA HA.

> > [YOU HAVE ADHIKARA, CONTROL, OVER KARMA [ACTIONS]

> ONLY]

> > MAA PHALESHU, KADAACHANA --- [YOU HAVE NO

> ADHIKAARA,

> > CONTROL, OVER THE FRUITS OF THE ACTIONS, NEVER.]"

> > THE WORD "ADHIKAARA" IS COMMON TO BOTH SENTENCES.

> > AND THE OPERATIVE WORD IS "ADHIKAARA", NOT

> "PHALESHU".

> >

> > with a million apologies to one of these latter

> day

> > vasishhttaas,

>

>

> From the Bhagavad Gita, Second Discourse, titled

> "Sankhya Yoga (Verse 47):

>

> "You have control over action alone,

> not over the fruits of the action."

>

> Which is followed by:

>

> "Let not the fruit of action be your motive,

> nor let your attachment be for inaction."

>

>

> Dear Krishnanji, the flavour of your words gives me

> the impression

> that I have said something very very wrong. When you

> say, in bold

> letters, that "KRISHNA HAS NOT, REPEAT NOT, SAID

> 'ACT WITHOUT

> EXPECTING ANYTHING'" do you mean to say that Lord

> Krishna prescribes

> that we should expect something in return when we

> act? Is that Karma

> Yoga?

>

> If I am wrong in what I've said, I would be happy to

> be corrected.

> After all, we are here to share and not merely to

> point out errors.

>

> With regards,

> Chittaranjan

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste Krishnanji.

 

I am sure CN will gracefully accept your million apologies. But, I

notice that you offered them to "to one of these

latter day vasishhttaas". You ought to explain what you really meant

by that and apologize once again, if necessary.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

[Guest guest]

Namaste Nairji and Krishnanji,

 

advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair"

<madathilnair> wrote:

> Namaste Krishnanji.

>

> I am sure CN will gracefully accept your million apologies.

> But, I notice that you offered them to "to one of these

> latter day vasishhttaas". You ought to explain what you

> really meant by that and apologize once again, if necessary.

>

> PraNAms.

> Madathil Nair

 

 

Thank you Nairji. But there is no need for Krishnanji to apologise. I

can see how the way in which I expressed myself in that previous post

might have offended him (and maybe others). On re-reading those words

I realise that they come across as being quite pontifical, and I

admit that I don't have the authority to speak in that manner. My

apologies if I have hurt the sensibilities of the members here.

 

With regards,

Chittaranjan

[Guest guest]

Namaste CN-ji.

 

While on the karmaNyEvAdhikaraste verse, Sw. Dayanandaji, for whom I

have great respect, gives a very practicable interpretation, which I

detail below in my inadequate words:

 

You have freedom of action in the sense that you can perform an

action as required, you can choose not to do it and you can do it

differently. No action is performed without a desire for results.

VyAsa wouldn't have laboured with Srimad Bhagvad GItA if he hadn't

had the desire that others read it. Thus, a wise man performs

legitimate actions according to his dharma with legitimate desires

for results. The result can be what you expected, less or more or

even the oppsite of what was expected. However, the wise accept them

without complaints with prasAdabuddhi as we accept the Lord's prasAda

from the temple priest without objecting to the item so given.

 

This is said here not to contradict any other interpretation but to

facilitate and encourage a logical understanding. I vividly remember

that this interpretation was the cause of dispute on this List not

very long ago between two active Members and wouldn't, therefore,

like to revive that scenario.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

[Guest guest]

Namaste Shri Nairji,

 

advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair"

<madathilnair> wrote:

> You have freedom of action in the sense that you can perform an

> action as required, you can choose not to do it and you can do it

> differently. No action is performed without a desire for results.

> VyAsa wouldn't have laboured with Srimad Bhagvad GItA if he hadn't

> had the desire that others read it. Thus, a wise man performs

> legitimate actions according to his dharma with legitimate desires

> for results. The result can be what you expected, less or more or

> even the oppsite of what was expected. However, the wise accept

> them without complaints with prasAdabuddhi as we accept the

> Lord's prasAda from the temple priest without objecting to the

> item so given.

 

 

Thank you Nairji, I would like to add to your words the following

verses from the Katha Upanishad:

 

"The good is one thing; the pleasant another. Both of these serving

different needs, bind a man. It goes well with him who, of the two,

takes the good; but he who chooses the pleasant misses the end."

(Ka.Up. I.ii.1)

 

"Both the good and the pleasant present themselves to a man. The calm

soul examines them well and discriminates. Yea, he prefers the good

to the pleasant; but the fool chooses the pleasant out of greed and

avarice." (Ka.Up.I.ii.2)

 

I believe that the key to Karma Yoga is acting according to Dharma,

which is the Way of the Good. In acting according to dharma, the

Karma Yogi grows larger than his 'little self' to merge into the Will

of the Divine.

 

Warm regards,

Chittaranjan

[Guest guest]

my dear nair saahb,

i consider these great leaders of

this group as the maharishies of today, just as

sagey under todays' circumstances , as were the

vasishttaas, vamadevaas, viswamitraas , paraasharas,

vyaasas of ancient eons.

do you think i should apologise to

sage vasishtta? or , to??

respectfully yours,

a.v.krshnan.

 

 

--- Madathil Rajendran Nair <madathilnair

wrote:

> Namaste Krishnanji.

>

> I am sure CN will gracefully accept your million

> apologies. But, I

> notice that you offered them to "to one of these

> latter day vasishhttaas". You ought to explain what

> you really meant

> by that and apologize once again, if necessary.

>

> PraNAms.

>

> Madathil Nair

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

My million thanks to you Modern VishwAmitraji! Yet, no harm

apologizing to CN despite the status that I have now conferred on

you. You will then be re-enacting the RAmAyaNa by following

VishwAmitra's later repentenance for his initial recalcitrance vis a

vis Rama and his preceptor, VasiSta.

Madathil Nair

_________________

 

advaitin, av krshnan <avkrshnan> wrote:

........> i consider these great leaders of

> this group as the maharishies of today, just as

> sagey under todays' circumstances , as were the

> vasishttaas, vamadevaas, viswamitraas , paraasharas,

> vyaasas of ancient eons.

> do you think i should apologise to

> sage vasishtta? or , to??

> respectfully yours,

> a.v.krshnan.

>

> _______

> --- Madathil Rajendran Nair <madathilnair>

> wrote:

.....> > I am sure CN will gracefully accept your million

> > apologies. But, I

> > notice that you offered them to "to one of these

> > latter day vasishhttaas". You ought to explain what

> > you really meant

> > by that and apologize once again, if necessary.

........> >

> > Madathil Nair

[Guest guest]

my dear nair saahb,

i pray that sage viswamitra will

forgive you or the infinite slur you have cast on him.

he is one of the " hotter" ones, so, ---

sincerely yours,

a.v.krshnan.

 

 

 

--- Madathil Rajendran Nair <madathilnair

wrote:

> My million thanks to you Modern VishwAmitraji! Yet,

> no harm

> apologizing to CN despite the status that I have now

> conferred on

> you. You will then be re-enacting the RAmAyaNa by

> following

> VishwAmitra's later repentenance for his initial

> recalcitrance vis a

> vis Rama and his preceptor, VasiSta.

> Madathil Nair

> _________________

>

> advaitin, av krshnan

> <avkrshnan> wrote:

> .......> i consider these great

> leaders of

> > this group as the maharishies of today, just as

> > sagey under todays' circumstances , as were the

> > vasishttaas, vamadevaas, viswamitraas ,

> paraasharas,

> > vyaasas of ancient eons.

> > do you think i should apologise

> to

> > sage vasishtta? or , to??

> > respectfully yours,

> > a.v.krshnan.

> >

> > _______

> > --- Madathil Rajendran Nair <madathilnair>

> > wrote:

> ....> > I am sure CN will gracefully accept your

> million

> > > apologies. But, I

> > > notice that you offered them to "to one of these

> > > latter day vasishhttaas". You ought to explain

> what

> > > you really meant

> > > by that and apologize once again, if necessary.

> .......> >

> > > Madathil Nair

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

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