THE PLACE OF (other) PRACTICE IN ADVAITA VEDANTA

[Guest guest]

Namaste all.

 

AdiMA's temporary farewell post 24638.

 

What a beautiful parting kick. Not one. She has kicked me all

over. As a devotee of Mother, I feel both kicked and blissed out.

Afterall, isn't it MA who kicked Her son? I know she didn't mean to

offend. She only meant to kick! So, I am least offended but

ecstatically kicked.

 

Have a wonderful hoiliday with your grandchildren, AdiMA, and may you

be successful with your silence!

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

_____________________

 

advaitin, "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16>

wrote:

> Nair-ji and Greg-ji!

>

> You may not have to worry too much as i am leaving for Orlando,

> FLORIDA , this Saturday to spenD time with my two precious

> grandsons , the apple of my eyes!!! I WILL BE CONSPICUOUS BY MY

> ABSENCE!! smiles!!

>

.........

> in any case, there is a 'danger' in our own interpretations also!

> some of us are so powerful in our presentation skills that we

> may 'misrepresent' the BHASYAS TOO! scriptural injunctions!!! This

> was obvious in prior month's discussions!!!

>

> Greg-ji, my suggestion to you before i leave ... AS a discussant,

you

> must take a lead role ... other discussants had their chances!!!

this

> is only fair to you, don't you think? i know you appreciate in your

> heart of hearts all the help you got from Nair-ji because he did

keep

> the discussion flowing but he had his 'chance' in the Purnamidam

> debate, the floor is yours and we are all only participants!!

>

> no offence meant!!

[Guest guest]

Namaste, Sri Nairji and Others,

 

When you say “you are co-extensive” I must mention, once or twice, while

standing before a big tree, I felt, just as a flash for a few seconds only, that

I am that tree! It is really funny. I am sure, our group members must have

similar “experiences” to narrate and it will be interesting to read them.

 

As for “practice”, as I understand, “practice” always involves “becoming”.

 

“Aacharanam” is the correct word to use in place of “practice” as far as

Advaita Vedanta. Is there any equivalent for “aacharanam” in English I do not

know.

 

I understand it as “living with awareness of a fact”

 

Once you got married, you do not or need not “practice” as a husband, or your

better-half needs to do that. Then there is only living as husband not only at

physical level, but emotional and intellectual levels. After the marriage, you

are just husband and you live as a husband to your wife, yes to your wife(!).

Just look at a girl. Once she delivers a baby, she is a mother and she does not

practice “motherhood” and she is “aware of the fact” that she is mother (being

and not becoming) all the time she is awake (maybe in sleep too as some mothers

say!). In both the cases, there is ACCEPTANCE of a fact, though after

“becoming”. The Aacharanam as a mother or a husband just takes place.

 

IMHO, what is required is “bodha” of one’s self as Satyam Gnaanam Anandam,

i.e. “awareness” and it is much more than having that knowledge. Our girl has

the “bodha” (can I say consciousness, though limited) that she is a mother, just

like a husband has the “bodha” that he is husband. So, Self Awareness or “Atma

bodham” does not require, IMHO, any practice. What is important is “Self

Consciousness” (“Atma Bodha”) and not self-consciousness, “Jeeva Bodha”. If this

Atma Bodha or Self Consciousness is not in us, even after the teaching, it is

just because we cannot accept self or ego, which is loaded with notions leading

to the feeling that it is always lacking or wanting or apoorna. In the case of

“Aham Brahmasmi” there is no “becoming”, but there is only recognition of that

“being” already one is and appreciating that fact. This appreciation has to take

place in all the three levels, i.e. Body, Mind and Intellect, and that

appreciation leads to acceptance of the fact that the

little-always-wanting-self is SELF ONLY. What is required is aacharnam, i.e.

the awareness that I am the Self and not self, and for that one has to

constantly remind/remember oneself as Self, through “tat chintanam, tat

kadhanam, and tat paraspara bodhanam” which is what exactly we are trying to do

in this group. How long to “rememer/remind”? Till the time self-acceptance takes

place, i.e. accepting all non-self, as “Tat Twam Asi” including one’s own self,

ego, as SELF.

 

Is there any practice required in Bhakti or Love? Bhakti takes place and

love takes place, at emotional level, after recognition of a fact. Similarly,

when at emotional level “Aham Brahmasmi” is appreciated through emotional

maturity, aacharanam is spontaneous. Or, when the non-self is accepted as Self,

emotional maturity takes place, and the non-self, as I said includes ego also.

It is not that we have to negate the mind, and for that matter any known and/or

unknown objects, which is never possible, so long as we live. “Neti Neeti” is

not to establish there is Anatma or non-self and negate that non-self to have

the vision of the Self. It is just a prakriya, or methodology followed to unfold

the Knowledge, only.

 

May I say, the indicator can only indicate the indicated, and it is for us

to have the vision of the Indicated, and one can follow whatever method suits

him to have that Vision.

 

Nairji, I hope I have tried to “drive home” what I wanted to and there is

no ambiguity in what I have said above.

 

Hari Om and Warm regards,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Madathil Rajendran Nair <madathilnair wrote:Namaste Maniji.

 

As usual, you have raised questions and answered them too!

advaitin/

 

advaitin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages!

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. Marc,

 

It is good of you to read my post. Thank you.

 

Yes, You are right when you are in harmony with a harmonious situation, you

cannot but get “overwhelmed” with a feeling, happiness expressing as LOVE. Our

nature as you said is Real Love, and it is evident from the fact that whenever

we hate, we get disturbed in our mind.

 

The Vision of advaita, as I understand it, is for one to be in harmony,

rather to be most truthful, one is in harmony, with the apparent disharmony one

sees, as the apparent disharmony floats in the most harmonious substratum.

Unfortunately, one cannot recognize and appreciate this as Ignorance covers his

real nature.

 

Warm regards

 

Mani

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

dennis_travis33 <dennis_travis33 wrote:

Namaste Mani-ji,

advaitin/

 

advaitin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Take Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Nair-ji!

 

That was not a real 'kick' at all - just a friendly 'kick' - just to

wake us all up to the Truth!!!

 

Remember, this is a group of Advaitins ! who is to kick whom? who is

to insult whom? THERE IS NO 'OTHER '

 

i am glad even after that friendly 'kick' you were able to Get up and

bounce back! that is the hallmark of a true ADVAITIN.

 

Having said that , i still maintain there is still danger in

interpretations . The best way to go about any topic is to present

the Actual thing and then offer one's interpretations. so that

beginners can evaluate both! This applies to all discussions not

just 'Real and Unreal'

 

well, nair-ji, i will miss all these lively discussions and your

great contributions but it is time for me to take a real Break ...

the head is weary , i need to rest it on the Divine Mother's lap

during the nine days of Navaratri and just relax in her blissful

presence!!!

 

Yaa Devi sarva bhuteshu 'Shanti' rupena samstitha !

 

but, please allow me to quote a passage from Brihadarayaka Upanishads-

THIS IS MY PARTING GIFT TO YOU!

 

salila eko drastadvaito bhavati, esa brahmalokah, samrad iti. hainam

anusasasa yajnavalkyah; esasya parama gatih, esasya parama sampat,

eso'sya paramo lokah, eso'sya parama anandah; estasyaivanandasyanyani

bhutani matram upajivanti.

 

 

(But where there is only an ocean of experience in which all the

bubbles of objects have immersed themselves in their unity with the

body of the ocean - salila eko drasta, where it is like a vast

expense of consciousness merely, single in its nature, Seer alone

without a duality, where only the Experiencer exists without an

object that is experienced, there what would one speak about and to

what one would speak and what is there to be seen, what is there to

be touched, what is there to be sensed? )

 

Swami Krishnananda

 

WISHING YOU ALL A VERY AUSPICIOUS NAVARATRI!

 

May the Divine Mother Shower her choicest blessings on you all!

[Guest guest]

Namaste Mani-ji,

 

Thank you for your message.

 

You write about harmony....

 

A life in complete harmony (with Brahman) ....means with everything

around....don't need, i agree, much "practice"....

 

The consciousness of Brahman....which is "here and now" ....in

everything and everybody present.....leads to some practice....for

those self-consciousness minds which get no inner peace....until

the "work" is done....until the "ignorance" disappeared.

 

Everybody for sure do his/her best to reach Brahman.....it appear

maybe like complete choas.....but everything move to the "same

direction"....to Brahman.

 

Because of Brahman we ARE....and because of Brahman we find out one

day about the existance of Maya....and because of Brahman....we loose

all this one day....

 

Brahman is formless....

If we can perceive the formless Brahman in(side) the form of

others......we can perceive ourSelf.

 

....also in a tree...

 

why people can't enjoy their Real Nature....Brahman...?

maybe they would prefer to die...instead of "becoming" a tree....lol

 

and this is the problem for many people....the minds are attached to

a body mind intellect....limited by a tree....which appear only

because of Maya....

 

a "vision" of the practice appeared in my mind....

people swimming since endless times in the ocean....and can't

still "see" the ocean....the ocean which give them All they Are.

 

Regards

 

with love

 

Marc

[Guest guest]

Namaste Mani-ji,

 

Narada Bhakti Sutras do distinguish, like Gita (7:16-17,

and 18:54), between 'gauNI' (secondary)- 'Arto jij~nAsu arthArthI',

and 'mukhya' or 'parA' - j~nAnI (primary) Bhakti.

 

The 'aShTa - sAttvika bhAva'-s (pure emotions) are

described in Narada Sutras. Gita has the beautiful description of the

same emotions in Arjuna at the beginning of the war influenced by

rajo-tama gunas, and later when he has the 'divine vision' (divya

drishti) under sAttvika influence. Depending on the previous

'samskaras', such emotions manifest only in certain situations (the

software has to be compatible with the Operating System!!!)

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

advaitin, "R.S.MANI" <r_s_mani> wrote:

>

> May I re-write what you said : "a parama bhakta is equal to a

parama jnani" as "parama gnani is equal to a parama bhakta".

>

> Somehow, pardon me, but I cannot understand the different grades in

Bhakti, such as lower grade, higher grade, etc.

>

> So, Bhakti is Bhakti and there can not be any grades in Bhakti and

Love. This is only my view.

>

>

> In the contest of the above experience, I have some questions on

which I hope our group members can let me know:

>

>

>

> Why such experience takes place only when I visited the popular

temples mentioned above, and not other temples.

> Is it not because we go with "Sradhana Antenna" loaded with

sufficient extra soft-ware to these temples? Such soft-ware is nothing

but based on what we read, what we hear, etc. about such temples? Let

us be very honest on these matters, as this is something very

important for one who approaches Self Knowledge.

>

> Why is it not possible to get the "Srandhana Antenna" tuned when we

visit Churches, Mosques, etc.

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Far from it! The word 'ignorant' [avidya or ajnana] in

the context of spiritual knowledge

does not carry any pejorative under- or over- tones, as it does in

ordinary language.

 

Nobody would call Ramana's worship of Arunachaleshvara

as born 'out of ignorance'.

The jnani worships to set an example to those who still have not

arrived at the destination. It is certainly not a 'concession', but a

method of 'leading by the hand' of a blind person by one with sight.

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

 

 

advaitin, Bob Freedman <rlfreed@p...> wrote:

> Does this mean that anyone who has an ishta devata or takes part in

> standard temple worship is ignorant. And isn't accusing elders who do

> particpate in such worship speaking "ill" of them?

>

> I realize that many of our exterior acts of devotion are concessions to

> our humanity, but aren't there many wise men and women who still value

> the forms of worship?

>

> Also, I didn't quote the part about mantras, etc. being useless, but

> that also seems to me to be rather severe and/or baseless.

>

> Bob Freedman

>

> B VAIDYANATHAN wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > The formless god is beyond the reach of

> > the ignorant,

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Bob:

 

You raised a valid point regarding worship. Lord Krishna in Gita has

answered your question beautifully in several chapters. Sri Sunderji

already brought out how Ramana has attained enlightenment through the

worship of Siva (Lord of Arunachala (Thiruvannamalai)). The key

question that we should ask is the following: What is the attitude

during worship? Attitude does matter and it does explain the

importance of Ishta Devata while pursuing jnana yoga.

 

Sri Hanuman's attitude while worshiping his beloved, Sri Ram will

illustrate that with the right attitude, that the 'form' is

superimposed within the 'formless!'

 

Shri Ram asked Hanuman, What is your attitude toward me? How do you

look upon, think of and worship me?

 

Hanuman replied, Oh Lord:

 

When I am conscious of my body, when I feel I am this visible body

and I have the conviction that thou art the Lord and I am thy

servant. Thou art to be served and I am one to serve.

 

When I am conscious of my self as the individual self, one with the

mind, the intellect and the soul, I have the strong conviction that

thou art the whole and I am thy part.

 

When I remain in Samadhi, in the mood that I am the Pure SELF devoid

of all qualifying adjuncts, I have the conviction that I am also

verily that which Thou art. Thou and I are one, there is no difference

whatsoever between Thou and I.

 

The first part of Hanuman's answer stresses his attitude to serve

(Karma Yoga). The second part focuses on the surrender attitude

(Bhakti Yoga).

 

The final part of the answer confirms the inseparability or non-

duality (Jnana Yoga).

 

This example is quite potent to understand the 'real' significance of

the Place of Practice in Advaita Vedanta. Our focus should be more

on 'our attitude during the practice' than on the 'practice.' When

the 'true bhakta' goes to the temple and worships the lord, he/she

does not pay attention to the 'form of the lord' but looks at the

inner beauty of the formless Lord! There may 330 or more millions of

gods in various forms and places but the worshiper is able to

penetrate through those forms to look for the formless! The seeker's

natural path is to go from 'form' to 'formless.' Our ignorance is

responsible for the creation of all forms and our wisdom is able

to 'dissolve those forms' to recognize our true identity!

 

The entire cosmic cycle of creation and dissolution is portrayed

beautifully through Lord Shiva who sits permanantly in Mount Kailas

(Himalasya) in the meditating pose. Shiva's third eye - spiritual

vision closed during the meditation. When Shiva opens His third eye

(symbolic representation of spiritual awakening) He burns (dissolves)

all the illusionary creations. When Ramana worships Shiva, he becomes

Shiva and recognizes His True SELF!

 

Warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

>

> advaitin, Bob Freedman <rlfreed@p...> wrote:

>

> > Does this mean that anyone who has an ishta devata or takes part

in

> > standard temple worship is ignorant. And isn't accusing elders

who do

> > particpate in such worship speaking "ill" of them?

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Ramji:

 

Your answer helps a lot to resolve the questions that still remained

after Sri Sunderji's explanation of my misunderstanding of the use of

the word "ignorance."

 

I appreciate the tolerance of members toward my ignorance (in the

English sense).

 

Gratefully,

 

Bob

 

 

 

Ram Chandran wrote:

> Namaste Sri Bob:

>

> You raised a valid point regarding worship. Lord Krishna in Gita has

> answered your question beautifully in several chapters. Sri Sunderji

> already brought out how Ramana has attained enlightenment through the

> worship of Siva (Lord of Arunachala (Thiruvannamalai)). The key

> question that we should ask is the following: What is the attitude

> during worship? Attitude does matter and it does explain the

> importance of Ishta Devata while pursuing jnana yoga.

>

> Sri Hanuman's attitude while worshiping his beloved, Sri Ram will

> illustrate that with the right attitude, that the 'form' is

> superimposed within the 'formless!'

>

> Shri Ram asked Hanuman, What is your attitude toward me? How do you

> look upon, think of and worship me?

>

> Hanuman replied, Oh Lord:

>

> When I am conscious of my body, when I feel I am this visible body

> and I have the conviction that thou art the Lord and I am thy

> servant. Thou art to be served and I am one to serve.

>

> When I am conscious of my self as the individual self, one with the

> mind, the intellect and the soul, I have the strong conviction that

> thou art the whole and I am thy part.

>

> When I remain in Samadhi, in the mood that I am the Pure SELF devoid

> of all qualifying adjuncts, I have the conviction that I am also

> verily that which Thou art. Thou and I are one, there is no difference

> whatsoever between Thou and I.

>

> The first part of Hanuman's answer stresses his attitude to serve

> (Karma Yoga). The second part focuses on the surrender attitude

> (Bhakti Yoga).

>

> The final part of the answer confirms the inseparability or non-

> duality (Jnana Yoga).

>

> This example is quite potent to understand the 'real' significance of

> the Place of Practice in Advaita Vedanta. Our focus should be more

> on 'our attitude during the practice' than on the 'practice.' When

> the 'true bhakta' goes to the temple and worships the lord, he/she

> does not pay attention to the 'form of the lord' but looks at the

> inner beauty of the formless Lord! There may 330 or more millions of

> gods in various forms and places but the worshiper is able to

> penetrate through those forms to look for the formless! The seeker's

> natural path is to go from 'form' to 'formless.' Our ignorance is

> responsible for the creation of all forms and our wisdom is able

> to 'dissolve those forms' to recognize our true identity!

>

> The entire cosmic cycle of creation and dissolution is portrayed

> beautifully through Lord Shiva who sits permanantly in Mount Kailas

> (Himalasya) in the meditating pose. Shiva's third eye - spiritual

> vision closed during the meditation. When Shiva opens His third eye

> (symbolic representation of spiritual awakening) He burns (dissolves)

> all the illusionary creations. When Ramana worships Shiva, he becomes

> Shiva and recognizes His True SELF!

>

> Warmest regards,

>

> Ram Chandran

>

>

>

>>advaitin, Bob Freedman <rlfreed@p...> wrote:

>>

>>

>>>Does this mean that anyone who has an ishta devata or takes part

>

> in

>

>>>standard temple worship is ignorant. And isn't accusing elders

>

> who do

>

>>>particpate in such worship speaking "ill" of them?

>

>

>

>

>

> Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman

and Brahman.

> Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

> To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

> Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

>

>

> Links

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste:

 

I am forwarding this interesting message from Sri Yadu. Let me also

some additional thoughts the this important issue on the relevance of

one's own interpretations. The seers have recgonized this problem

long ago and classified the scriptures into two categories - shruti

and smriti. The distinction between shruti and smriti provides us

with valuable tips while making our own interpretation.

 

The seers's formula is quite simple but at the same time it contains

full of wisdom. For example, if Sri Sankara or Sri Ramana or one of

the many knowledgeable saints provide a original text then they

qualify to fall into the category of 'shruti' and consequently, we

need to be very vigilent while making our own interpretations. The

question, what text should be considered 'shruti' or 'smriti' is very

subjective and that depends on our belief and conviction. Those who

have great respect, faith and conviction on Sri Sankara, everything

word of Sankara becomes the 'Veda' or Shruti. In other words, if we

want to make 100% of our own interpretations, we should be aware that

a significant percent of those interpretations may be potentially

erroneous!

 

Warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

 

"ymoharir" <ymoharir Add to Address Book

 

Namsate Ram-Ji:

 

I have not posted this but you may do so if you you think it is OK.

 

Regards,

 

Yadunath

 

====================================

Namste Madathil-Ji and Greg-Ji:

 

I share your thoughts completely.

 

Using and quoting the original text via-internet is probably the best

thing that has happened the recent past. It is the interpretation

that is important.

 

IMHO - One must read from many sources for various interpretations

and then possibly arrive at their own conclusions.

 

I think this can be compared to looking through someone else's

prescription eye-glasses to read. Occasionally, the prescription may

match for one of the eyes but rarely in both?

 

Best Regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

 

advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair"

<madathilnair> wrote:

> Namaste Gregji.

>

> My solid vote for the suggested proportion (25:75). In fact, I

would

> like to see 100% our own interpretations - a standard I have always

> endeavoured to live except in exceptional circumstances. The links

> can be named. Then, there is the apprehension that they may never

be

> clicked. Well, so be it! Even now, I suspect from the responses we

> receive, most of the quoted material is almost never read!

[Guest guest]

Shri Ram-ji!

 

you have stated ....

 

 

( Shri Ram asked Hanuman, What is your attitude toward me? How do you

look upon, think of and worship me?

 

Hanuman replied, Oh Lord:

 

When I am conscious of my body, when I feel I am this visible body

and I have the conviction that thou art the Lord and I am thy

servant. Thou art to be served and I am one to serve.

 

When I am conscious of my self as the individual self, one with the

mind, the intellect and the soul, I have the strong conviction that

thou art the whole and I am thy part.

 

When I remain in Samadhi, in the mood that I am the Pure SELF devoid

of all qualifying adjuncts, I have the conviction that I am also

verily that which Thou art. Thou and I are one, there is no

difference

whatsoever between Thou and I.)

 

well, i had quoted the same conversation between Lord Rama and

Hanuman-ji several posts ago...

 

A vaishnava MEMBER wrote an email asking me the source of that

quotation. I had gotton this from the gospel of Shri Ramakrishna BUT

HE WANTED TO KNOW HOW AUTHENTIC IT WAS!!! .

 

now, could you kindly tell me where you obtained this information so

we know exactly the source of this lively dialogue!!! Thank you SO

MUCH!

 

You go on to explain

 

( The first part of Hanuman's answer stresses his attitude to serve

(Karma Yoga). )

 

My understanding was the first part explained the 'dasya bhava' in

the mode of Bhakti - that of a master -servant relationship!!

 

and you say

 

The second part focuses on the surrender attitude

> (Bhakti Yoga).

 

my understanding was the second part explains the Dwaita bhava of

Jivatma and ParAmatma !!

 

AND YOU CONCLUDE

 

The final part of the answer confirms the inseparability or non-

duality (Jnana Yoga).

 

the last one vibes with my understanding !

 

please clarify!!

 

**********************************************************************

 

Now, on 'interpretations' !!!!

 

that is a whole new ball game!!!

 

Yes! When Adi Shankara Bhagvadapada states something , we take it as

a Gospel because HE is a Jivan Mukta ! Same is true of Shri Ramana

Bhagwan!

 

BUT INTERPRETATIONS? by whom?

 

by lesser mortals like me or somebody else?

 

That is at best second guessing Only?

 

Take last month's discussion for example - NO BODY could even agree

on an acceptable defintion of 'MaYa' ...

 

and then there was this elongated arguments and counterarguments

on 'sublimation, superimpostion ' etc - followed by what is the real

meaning of the Metaphors Vandya Putra, mistaking Rope for a Snake,

CLAY- POT ETC....

 

no doubt, it was one of the liveliest topics and our beloved Chitta

did a superb job of presenting a very complex Topic but each

participant interpreted each and everything in their own unique

way ... and at the end of the day one was still wondering whether

the World is real or unreal!!!! This is because none of us are self -

realized so we have not reached the level of Adi sankara or Bhagwan

Ramana - they can claim world is 'mithya' because of their 'Anubhuti'

( PERSONAL EXPERIENCE) and then of course, the word 'mithya' itself

can be interpreted in any number of ways ...

 

that is basically the problem with the sanskrit language

 

the same word can have multiple meanings -depending on the context in

which it is used - the 'sandhi vicched' etc...

 

i will give a small example !

 

the Rig vedic text says

 

"vasudaiva Kutumbakam"

 

vasuda means Earth

 

eva means alone

 

vasuda+eva becomes vasudaiva

 

the whole phrase means the whole world is my family.

 

the same text is often misquoted

 

as

 

Vasudeva Kutumbakam

 

VASUDEVA IS THE FATHER OF Lord Krishna

 

VAASUDEVA IS ANOTHER NAME FOR LORD KRISHNA

 

the spelling alters the whole meaning....

 

to cut a long story short, again 'interpretations' ?

 

who is the interpreter?

 

is it swami Dayananda, swami Krishnananda, Swami Atmananda? or just

one of us ?

 

This is all not that simple as it sounds...

 

Thank you !

[Guest guest]

Sunder-ji,

 

i apologize for still 'posting' my 1 and a three quarter cents...

Navaratri officially begins on 15th october - that is when i will

start my full fledged mauna vrata and my florida trip looks kind

of "shaky" with Hurricane 'Gene' looming large ... we will see...

 

i like to thank you for coming to my rescue on this subject

of 'Gauna' and 'Mukhya' bhakti ..WITH RELEVENT SCRIPTURAL REFERENCES

from Srimad Bhagwat Gita and Narada Purana ! .and coming from you ,

it assumes an added significance.

 

Now, there is another classification of Bhaktas- i forgot to include

my post to Maniji-

 

that is of

 

1) Kanishta

 

2) Madhyama

 

3) Uttama

 

adhikaris ...

 

My limited understanding of these three classes of bhaktas is

 

1) The kanishta adhikari is always praying to the God/ess - visits

temples and other places of worship etc...

 

2) The madhyama adhikari is one who is always associating with other

bhaktas and singing the glories of the God/ess and shares with OTHER

devotees his knowledge of the path .

 

3) lastly, we have the 'Uttama' adhikari- In whose very presence, you

only think of God/ess and not only that such a Uttama adhikari sees

the presence of god/ess in each and every being!!

 

Sunder-ji, please provide scriptural references.

 

SO, there are stages in Bhakti !

 

love and regards

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin, "Sunder Hattangadi" <sunderh>

wrote:

> Namaste Mani-ji,

>

> Narada Bhakti Sutras do distinguish, like Gita (7:16-

17,

> and 18:54), between 'gauNI' (secondary)- 'Arto jij~nAsu arthArthI',

> and 'mukhya' or 'parA' - j~nAnI (primary) Bhakti.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Adiji:

 

The material that I have posted here came from an earlier post in

this list by me on "Devotion" dated 18th October 2000.

Source: http://www.escribe.com/culture/advaitin/m6448.html

 

This illustration was originally stated by Sri Ramakrishna

Paramahamsa. (Reference: Essentials of Hinduism, by Prof. V.

Krishnamurthy (1989), Narosa Publishing House, New

Delhi. Page 136.)

 

It is good to know that you have also stated the same illustration in

another post in this list on another contest. Thanks for providing a

different interpretation to the words spoken by Sri Hanumanji.

 

It seems that my post has diverted your attention from your

grandchildren to the advaitin list. I wish you all the best in

Florida and wish you a great vacation!

 

Warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

advaitin, "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16>

wrote:

> Shri Ram-ji!

>

> you have stated ....

>

>

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16>

wrote:

 

subject

> of 'Gauna' and 'Mukhya' bhakti ..WITH RELEVENT SCRIPTURAL REFERENCES

> Now, there is another classification of Bhaktas- i forgot to include

please provide scriptural references.

>

> SO, there are stages in Bhakti !

>

 

Namaste,

 

Of more practical value would be to return to Prof.

V.K.-ji's series of postings:

 

http://www.geocities.com/profvk/gohitvip/79.html

 

ADVAITA BHAKTI THROUGH CONTEMPLATIVE PRACTICE OF NARAYANEEYAM

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Thank you Sri Ram-ji for your kind sentiments.

 

They say there is many a slip between the Cup and the Lip ... I hope

i will be able to trvel this weekend to Orlando if the Arlines do not

cancel their flights due to the Impending Hurricane *Gene* which is

supposed to hit Orlando on Sunday Morning - it is a category three

storm so far and is supposed to be as deadly as its ANCESTRAL BROTHER

Charlie which caused devastation just few weeks ago!! anyway...

 

That was an interesting post you forwarded from Dr. Yadu ...

 

but, those who have the Guru's Grace, do they really

need 'spectacles' or 'contact' lenses ? Guru has already opened their

Ajna Chakra by bestowing HIS/HER Grace ? in any case, you are

supposed to see Everything through the 'eyes' of the SCRIPTURES!

(SDhastasya chakshu)

 

Bhakta Surdas, for instance ! He was physically Blind but he Saw Lord

Krishna in the Inner Sanctuary of the Heart! He composed such

beautiful verses on Lord Krishna that it is hard to imagine he was

sightless !

 

My point is this .... The Internet is a great resource . Let us not

discredit it . If it were not fot the internet, would we still be

able to read and enjoy Professor v.k's perennial words of wisdom?

thank you sunder-ji for that link on Naraneeyam...

 

Nair-ji and Greg-ji are quite right in saying that we should

keep 'quotes' to a minimum and post something that is Original... i

would go even one step further and say Write only that you have

personally experienced and truly 'practice' in real life! guess what!

the message board will be Dull and inactive!!! smiles!!!!!

 

take care Sri Ram-ji, i wish you and yours a veruy happy Holiday

season !

 

love and regards

 

 

 

advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <RamChandran@a...>

wrote:

> at their own conclusions.

>

> I think this can be compared to looking through someone else's

> prescription eye-glasses to read. Occasionally, the prescription

may

> match for one of the eyes but rarely in both?

>

> Best Regards,

>

> Dr. Yadu

[Guest guest]

i aoplogize for the typos ...

 

Should read

 

Shastarsya Chakshuhu ( eyes of the scriptures )

 

Narayaneeyam

 

OOps! looks like i need a new pair of Glasses...

 

love and regards

[Guest guest]

Namaste Adiji:

 

Honestly, my interpretation do not contradict your interpretation.

Karma Yoga is conducted with the attitude of 'dasya bhava,' the lord

being the master and jiva as the servant. The Karma Yogi acts with

the 'prasada buddhi - conduct the work as a service to the lord and

accept the outcome as the gift from the Lord.

 

Again the 'surrender attitude' is the same as the'dhivta bhava'where

the jiva wants to surrender his/her fruits of action to the Lord. I

am glad to know that we both perceive the same with respect to the

third contention.

 

The purpose of this list is greatly fulfilled with active

interactions between the Satsanghis where we try to get better

insights on the subject under discussion. Sri Hanumanji's bhakti

toward the Lord is supreme and known as 'Akanda bhakti.' With Akanda

bhakti, the bhakta and the Lord become inseparable. According to a

symbolic story, Sri Ram permanantly resides within the heart of Sri

Hanuman. Sri Hanuman in this story tear open his chest to demonstrate

the presence of the Lord inside (May I request Adiji to find and post

the complete story when she gets time!)

 

Warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

 

 

advaitin, "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16>

wrote:

> Shri Ram-ji!

> .......

> You go on to explain

>

> ( The first part of Hanuman's answer stresses his attitude to

serve

> (Karma Yoga). )

>

> My understanding was the first part explained the 'dasya bhava' in

> the mode of Bhakti - that of a master -servant relationship!!

>

> and you say

>

> The second part focuses on the surrender attitude

> > (Bhakti Yoga).

>

> my understanding was the second part explains the Dwaita bhava of

> Jivatma and ParAmatma !!

>

> AND YOU CONCLUDE

>

> The final part of the answer confirms the inseparability or non-

> duality (Jnana Yoga).

>

> the last one vibes with my understanding !

>

> please clarify!!

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Adi-ji,

 

....don't worry about "practice"....

there is nobody doing realy "practice"....

....and if so....this "somebody" would be Brahman....the only "doer"

existing....

i trust in Brahman....and so....in the activities (life) of every

person

whole life....every moment....every breath....IS practice maybe...

Brahman expect nothing....what could Brahman expect....except of (to

keep on) Being?

 

wish you a good stay in Florida...hope the weather don't reflect your

great activities ........joking

 

Regards and thanks for your intensive activities here on

internet...for the Group

 

have a good flight

 

with love

 

Marc

[Guest guest]

Namashkar Sri. Ram-ji !

 

Believe me, i have read many of your messages in the archives and

have been impressed by the Bhakti Bhava, Scriptural knowledge etc in

those messages ... i have learned so much from yOu, sri RAM-ji !!

 

Ram-ji , your interpretation and my interpretation do not contradict

each other !!! Rather, Karma yoga and bhakti yoga CANNOT put in water-

tight compartments. in both yogas , there is an element of total

Surrender -Sharanagati Tattwa!

 

Krishna advises Arjuna thus ...

 

in 2nd chapter on Bhakti Yoga

 

You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you're not

entitled to the fruits of action. Never consider yourself to be the

cause of the results of your activities, and never be attached to not

doing your duty. (2:47)

 

and in another verse in the Chapter on Karma yoga ,

 

Krishna tells Arjuna

 

Let not the wise disrupt the minds of the ignorant who are attached

to fruitive action, they should not be encouraged to refrain from

work, but to engage in work in the spirit of devotion. (3:26)

 

Ram-ji as you can see , in both Bhakti and Karma Yoga , there is an

element of Surrender and dedicating the fruits of action to the Lord!

 

Ram-ji, when i spoke about 'interpretation, i was not referring to

your post ! that is a minor issue! i was referring to Last month's

topic - Where our beloved Chiita tried to present His understanding

of Shankara's Bhasya on the Real and the Unreal ... and my

whole 'beef' about the whole discussion was Chitta did not get a fair

chance to present his topic in all its entirety, there were constant

interruptions and constant questioning .It was very hard for

beginners like me to focus on what Chita was trying to say when other

members were constantly diverting the attention by giving their

own 'interpretations' and trying to prove Chitta was 'un-shankara'

like in his stance!! First, one had to know what Shankara had said as

Chitta understood the bhasyas before passing a judgement on whether

chitta deviated from shankara!!! add to this all that constant

disagreement on what the rope-snake analogy meant and the states of

waking, dreaming etc.... Wow!!! my head was spinning !and i felt bad

that Chiita had to constantly sit there and defend his stance even

before completing the series but he handles it all with grace and

dignity!

 

i still enjoyed reading chitta's presentation because of

the 'sincerity' of purpose and 'clarity of writing' style! The poetry

and romance in his writing style, i found most endearing!! I thank

you for saving this all in the archives and i am going to read them

all the 8 essays when i have a chance!!

 

That is why I commented on the 'interpretations '!! and the

representations and misrepresentations!

 

On another note,

 

Ram-ji, thank you for giving me a chance to share that Story of

Hanumanji's Devotion to the cosmic couple sree Ram-SITA !!

 

here it is which was posted in my group Brahman-shakti !

 

 

 

Hanumanji, ultimate devotee!

 

 

 

After Sri Rama's return from exile and after his coronation, the

whole kingdom rejoiced and gifts were given to all those who helped

in the battle of Lanka Where Ravana was vainquished).

 

Hanuman received a very valuable pearl necklace that he accepted

gratefully.But as soon as he received it, he broke each pearl

and checked it...he would take each pearl, break it

with his teeth and then throw them away...

 

One of Rama's courtiers saw Hanuman's strange behaviour and was

enraged to see such a valuable neckless being wasted.When confronted,

Hanuman explained: I am just testing the worth of each pearl...they

seem dazzling and priceless from the outside, But do they contain the

image of my master Sri Rama and his wife mother Sita in

their inside?- In their hearts?

 

If my master is not inside them then they are worthless and useless to

me!That's why I am breaking them and as I do not see Sri

Rama's image then I throw them away...!

 

So the courtier arrogantly questioned Hanuman :-Are you

saying so confidently that you have the images of Rama

and Sita enshrined in your own heart?To which

Hanuman replied:<- So I have! Hanuman declared with a

beaming smile and there and then he slit open his chest

with his bare nails.The onlookers were amazed to

see the dazzling images of Hanuman's master and his

wife, actually enshrined in his heart.They all blessed

Hanuman for his great devotion to his beloved master and

when Sri Rama heard about it, he came and embraced his

ace devotee and Hanuman's chest was healed and made

stronger by his master's loving and caring

embrace.

 

This story shows that Hanuman is so wholeheartidly devoted to his

master that he receives his master's grace which is, forever dwelling

in his faithful devotee's heart!Sri Hanuman is the purest and

greatest exemple of selfless and perfect devotion to one's master and

is an ideal that devotees look up to and strive to

achieve!

 

(POSTED BY Phil das bhakta)

 

well, this is the Season of Bhakti - first comes Navaratri folloed by

Deepavali ...

 

My favorite verse in Hanuman Chalisa ...

 

your valor encompasses all the four ages, Your fame brightens the

whole universe. O! Protector of the Pious and the Saints,

O! slayer of demons and beloved of Ram.

 

Jai Bajaranga Bali !

 

jai vir BHAKT HANUMAN-JI KI!!!

[Guest guest]

Thank you Marc!

 

Guess what!

 

i had to cancel my flight as another Hurricane is heading towards

Orlando and my daughter advised me to postpone my trip!

 

that was sweet of you to post that Loving Message !

 

Guess what!!

 

Love is BrAhman ! Kindness is a Religion!

 

love and regards

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin, "dennis_travis33"

<dennis_travis33> wrote:

>

>

> Namaste Adi-ji,

>

> ...don't worry about "practice"....

> there is nobody doing realy "practice"....

> ...and if so....this "somebody" would be Brahman....the only "doer"

> existing....

> i trust in Brahman....and so....in the activities (life) of every

> person

> whole life....every moment....every breath....IS practice maybe...

> Brahman expect nothing....what could Brahman expect....except of

(to

> keep on) Being?

>

> wish you a good stay in Florida...hope the weather don't reflect

your

> great activities ........joking

>

> Regards and thanks for your intensive activities here on

> internet...for the Group

>

> have a good flight

>

> with love

>

> Marc

[Guest guest]

Namaste, Sri Sunderji, and Others,

 

Thank you very much Sri Sunderji for your kind clarification with regard to

“Bhakti”.

 

I am only trying to learn and assimilate as much as possible from the views of

the respected members of this august Group.

 

Lord Krishna says, there are four types of devotees and He is not talking

about four types of Bhakti, and that is my understanding of the verse. (If He

were to say it again today, He would have said five types, including our dear

politicians as an entirely separate type of devotees! – I do not know whether

this makes you giggle)

 

Bhakti or Love “takes place” in one when he appreciates something in the

object of Bhakti or love, and this appreciation takes place only on rising of

knowledge about that something. IMHO, as in the case of other emotions, there is

no action involved in Love and Bhakti, although Love and Bhakti, gets expressed

itself, like other emotions, in the action one performs. One cannot “become”

angry as anger takes place, and expresses itself. More so, with Bhakti, Bhakti

takes place, and gets itself expressed in one’s actions. This appreciation

itself is happiness and when one has love or has Bhakti for the object of his

love or Bhakti, it is out of this happiness. As for example, when one loves the

rose flower, it is just because of happiness resulting from his appreciation of

the rose flower. He knows that it is the nature of the rose flower to spread

fragrance, it is very soft to touch, very pleasant to see, etc., and if he is

asking or praying the rose flower to spread its fragrance

for the purpose of removing some bad smell, it only means he has ignorance

about the rose flower. The rose flower does not create the foul smell and it is

not its business to remove it. All it does is spreading fragrance. One should

find out the cause of the foul smell and try to remove the cause and he cannot

pray the rose flower to remove the foul smell. Even when the rose flower spreads

fragrance, the foul smell cannot vanish though it may be covered or appears to

be covered by the fragrance.

 

Iswara, seems to be used as a means for attaining certain purpose. As

Swami Dayanandaji puts it “when all local helps are exhausted or after trying

with all local helps one turns to Iswara for getting what he desires.” Swamiji

says it is “Sadhana Bhakti” i.e. Bhakti with expectation to achieve a specific

end, to be precise to become happy. I doubt using Iswara as a means to achieve a

specific end, can be termed as True, (I may use ‘True’ just to clarify) Bhakti.

Throughout Narayaneeyam, Sri Bhattathiripadu prayed for removal of his vada roga

(Rheumatism), i.e. his distress, whereas his contemporary, Sri Poonthanam

Nampoothiri, in spite of the fact that he also had many distresses, including

the pain suffered by him by the death of all his babies, utter poverty, etc.,

sings “when Baby Krishna is playing in my mind, do I require any other babies”.

(I am only stating some facts, as they appear to me, and it is not to exalt some

or belittle some)

 

Lord Krishna calls all Bhaktas, i.e. the four types of the devotees, (of

course not the “fifth!” type) as “sukritinaha”, i.e. people who are given to

good actions and who worship the Lord. However, in the case of a jnani, i.e. who

knows the Lord as Atma, he is the foremost of the four, the Lord says. In the

next verse, our beloved Lord says “Among these, the jnani, being always united

(to Me), his devotion resolved in oneness, is distinguished (visisya), because I

am totally beloved him and he is absolutely My beloved”. The devotion of a jnani

is without any expectation, i.e. expectation to be happy. The Lord calls a jnani

as “nitya yukta”.

 

Swamiji writes: “tesam jnani nitya yuktaha, i.e. the jnani is always united.

Jnani means the one who has immediate knowledge, (aparoksha jnana) of the truth

of Iswara. He is a knower of the truth, tattva-vit and because of this

knowledge, he is always united to Iswara. As long as Iswara is remote, paroksha,

one has to make a connection with him. If one has a certain recognition of

Iswara one connects oneself by some prayer, a thought, a mantra, some meditation

or some act like a ritual. If the connection is for redemption of some distress,

it is the connection of an arta and artharthi, that connection is not

permanent. The jignasu, the one desires to know, is more or less always united

because his whole mind is consumed by the desire to know the truth, and the

truth is Iswara, so his mind is more often than not connected. As a ‘mumukshu’

he is a karma-yogi, and therefore has prasada-budhi. His attitude is ‘whatever

action I do, it is all offered to you’. He conforms to dharma

because that is Iswara for him. Therefore he is more-or-less-nitya-yukta. The

jnani, however, is nitya-yukta. There is identity between Iswara and jnani and

he recognizes that. All of them are devotees but the jnani has a special feature

that makes him stand out. This is told here not to set the jnani apart as

someone extraordinary. What is pointed out is the extent to which our devotion

has to mature. It has to mature in a knowledge by which one becomes always

united to Iswara, nitya-yukta. All the devotion should resolve in that

knowledge.”

 

On the next verse (18), Swamiji writes, in his “Gita Home Study Series”:

“All of these devotees are exalted (udaraha). All of them recognize me; so from

the standpoint of those who do not recognize me at all, they are exalted. They

are all mature people, and Sankara takes, these, as the other three classes of

devotees, because Bhagavan has singled out the jnani as most beloved. “jnani tu

atma eva me matam’ If they are all exalted, why is the jnani distinguished as

the most beloved? Sankara says, there is no devotee of Iswara who is not beloved

to the Lord. Each one is recipient of His grace, but the jnani is most beloved

because he is Myself alone, ‘jnani tu atmaaiva me matam’ i.e. he is not

separated from Iswara. The others are also Me (The Lord), but they have not

recognized the fact. I (the Lord) have no partiality because I (the Lord) am

already everyone. It is not that only the jnani is Atma, is My (the Lord’s)

Atma. The fact remains for all. But because of the jnani’s

recognition that Atma is Parameshwara, he becomes Me and I become him. That is

the vision, ‘me matam’ of the Lord.”

 

What I am trying to say is if there is an element of expectation, in

whatever degree it may be, in Bhakti to change a situation, in order to be

happy, it is no more True Bhakti. Bhakti to my very very little understanding is

not for one to become happy but it is out of happiness. Again, Bhakti is out of

recognizing the grace already flowing from the Lord, and that recognition itself

is happiness, and not for asking or praying for any further grace.

 

After all, what is most lovable to one is (his) self (Atma), and since Atma

is Iswara and Iswara is Atma, knowingly or unknowing all love Iswara only.

 

As I said, this is my, yes my, understanding of Bhakti.

 

I remember reading in some Upanishad, (I do not remember in which Upanishad

it comes) that even Narada, one of the many greatest Bhaktas, was asked to get

That Knowledge about the Ultimate Truth.

 

When I say all these it is not at all my attempt to belittle or ridicule

anyone, particularly the devotees falling into all the groups, (not the present

day politicians, as they get themselves ridiculed!). My apologies, of course, if

the spirit of this post is not understood by anyone the way I expect it to be

understood.

 

Warm regards and Hari om

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sunder Hattangadi <sunderh wrote:Namaste Mani-ji,

advaitin/

 

advaitin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "R.S.MANI" <r_s_mani> wrote:

>

> clarification with regard to "Bhakti".

>

 

Namaste Mani-ji,

 

Vivekachudamani, verses 28-29, describes "manda,

madhyama, and tiivra" [dull, middling, sharp] types of

devotees/devotion, according to the level of attainment in

'sadhana-chatushtaya'.

 

As Sri Ramakrishna said, water is water whether it is

as pure as rain or as polluted as in the gutter - the chataka bird

will drink only the former, the pig does not mind the latter! Similar

is the case with bhakti, otherwise Krishna would not have said

'ekabhaktiH vishiShyate' (Gita 7:17) [the one with one-pointed

devotion excels].

 

In Bhagavata Purana, the Book III, Kapila's dialogue

with his mother Devahuti, describes Bhakti in terms of Satvik,

Rajasic, and Tamasic. In Narada Purana, it subdivides each of these

under adhama, madhyama, and uttama. Some have gone even as far as

dividing each of these under the nine-fold (nava-vidhA) aspects of

Bhakti (making a total of 81 !!) (vide commentary by Deglurkar - in

Marathi).

 

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Thank you Mani-ji for another wonderful post punctuated with

Humor ... i specially liked your poking fun at todays politicians !

so true!! Our beloved Chief minister Jayalalita devi has made the

PRATHYANGIRA Devi temple famous by performing Non-stop yagna to Her

before the last elections and defeated her opponent. Smt. Jayalliyta

has made this temple in Ayyavadi near. Kumbakonam(South India)a major

toursist attraction. In fact, i visited this temple on my last

trip !!.

 

i liked your analogy of the Rose flower and fragrance ...

 

you go on to comment

 

(The rose flower does not create the foul smell and it is not its

business to remove it. All it does is spreading fragrance. One should

find out the cause of the foul smell and try to remove the cause and

he cannot pray the rose flower to remove the foul smell.)

 

But, i know for a fact that the Company of Good People ( sadhu

sangati) can remove 'ignorance' that is represented by foul smell in

your analogy... Sunderji mentioned about water in his post ... this

reminded me of a verse i read a while ago ... and stored in mty

personal files

 

Santapthaayasi sansthitasya payaso naamaa pi na

shruyate

muktaa kaaratayaa tadeva nalineepatra sthetam

drishyate

antah saagara shukthi madhya patitam tat

moukthikam jaayate

praayena adhama madhyama uttama

jushaam evam vidhaa vrittayaha

 

 

When a drop of water falls on heated iron, it disappears immediately,

whereas if it happens to fall upon a lotus leaf, it

appears like a pearl and the same thing turns into a

pearl if it chances to drop into the mouth of an oyster

during the swathi constellation. Thus the company (bad,

mediocre or good) in which a person moves and lives

determine his future!

 

so, there is a lot to be said in favour of satsangati!

 

You mentioned

 

(Throughout Narayaneeyam, Sri Bhattathiripadu prayed for removal of

his vada roga (Rheumatism),)

 

And Sir, DO YOU KNOW HOW SRI. BHATTATHRI was afflicted with this

vada roga ?

 

do you know that Achyuta Pisharadi was Shri Bhattahri's Guru? hIS

Bhattathri's Guru Achyuta Pisharadi fell a victim to a severe attack

of paralysis and suffered unbearable pain. Bhattatiri, the devoted

disciple could not bear the suffering of his Guru.

He, therefore, fervently prayed that the disease may be transferred

to him and his Guru freed of suffering. Bhattatiri accepted

the "Karmavipaka Dana" by which the sins of his Guru were

transferred to him. It happened as he wanted and soon while Pisharadi

recovered, the disease made Bhattatiri a cripple.

 

Don't you think this is the highest form of Guru Bhakti? and in any

case, Narayaneeyam is a masterpiece and is the ultimate treatise on

Bhakti and Vedanta !!!

 

Also, nobody has so far mentioned about Vibhuti Yoga so far! If i

recal correctly, sada-ji mentioned it in another context in response

to one of my posts ...

 

well, here is a start...

 

i am the 'prema' in Gopi's hearts!!!

 

jai gopi-krishna!

[Guest guest]

Namaste, Adi Behnji,

 

I admire the “webless” web-site stored in your own brain, always available for

quick retrieval of data.

 

How much hard and patient work must have gone into, in creating the data bank

is something to be applauded.

 

Incidentally, I have come across a few quotes, which you can store, if they are

already not stored.

 

“You know it is love when all you want is, that person to be happy, even if you

are not part of their happiness.” – Julia Robert

 

“Without adversity, without change, life is boring. The paradox of comfort is

that we stop trying.”

 

- John Amatt

 

“In the arithmetic of love, one plus one equals everything, and two minus one

equals nothing.”

 

-Mignon McLaughlin

 

“Be more concerned about with your character than your reputation. Your

character is what you are, your reputation is merely what others think you are.”

 

-John Wogden

 

“History cannot release one.” – Satguru Jaggi Vasudev

 

 

 

Coming to the rose flower analogy, what I wanted to communicate was without

“self effort” one cannot reach the goal, and as for Satsang, it does help, but

particularly when it comes to Self Knowledge, one has to make his own effort.

The indicator only indicates the indicated, and it is for one to find his own

way to reach the indicated. Have you also not heard that one drop of poison, can

poison a large pot of milk?

 

 

 

As for the vatha roga of Sri Bhattathiripadu, I refer to what Satguru Jaggi

Vasudev has said. (I have great respect for Sri Bhattathiripadu, and

Narayaneeyam is a master piece. There is also a story, Lord Guruvayoorappan

Himself said “There is Bhakti in Jnanapana of Poonthanam and there is only

Grammar in Narayaneeyam”. I do not think we should be much concerned about such

stories. I personally know of one Oriya fellow, who cut his tongue and offered

it to Ma Kali, after hearing some story. The result, he had to be hospitalized

and somehow he got back his life. That is how Bhakti can lead to madness, if

there is no Knowledge about Guru and above all Iswara. Hope I am not hurting the

feelings of Bhaktas. The stories have a limited purpose, only to highlight

certain principle/ideal, and what is important is to understand that principle.

Parashurama beheaded his beloved mother, just on an order of his father. What

about mathru-bhakti? If there is a story in your data bank to

support/justify Parashurama’s this action, please do narrate it, as it will be

interesting to “read” it.)

 

The dropping-of-water on different surfaces, only proves that “Adhikaritwa” is

very important in pursuing any field of knowledge, and more so in the case of

Self Knowledge.

 

As for “Vibhuti Yoga” His greatest Vibhuti is that He alone manifests as we all,

and more than that he is enlightening us to appreciate/recognize all His

Vibhuties.

 

Hari Om Warm regards

 

 

adi_shakthi16 <adi_shakthi16 wrote:Thank you Mani-ji for another

wonderful post punctuated with

advaitin/

 

advaitin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

vote. - Register online to vote today!

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear AdiMa,

 

I've been away for a while and haven't been able to keep up with all

the messages here, but I get the impression that you are placed in a

position of having to defend the place of bhakti in Advaita sadhana.

 

I want to tell you that I am with you - I believe there is no jnyana

without bhakti. Shri Frank-ji says that in jnyana marga there "is

fundamental insight that one is not circumscribed by thought, but

essentially tat sat Itself". I would add that these 'circumscribing'

thoughts are not mere furniture; they are living thought with

postures. Bhakti is the posture of the mind that is imbibed of the

truth that the mind is 'nothing' - that it gets its 'somethingness'

from the Supreme Self that is the sole Reality. The mind that

is 'nothing' cannot circumscribe the Self.

 

In jnyana-marga, the intellect discerns the way to go. The way to go

is to dissolve. That dissolving is bhakti. A bhakta becomes 'nothing'

so that NOTHING may stand between him and Light.

 

AdiMa, I am fully with you when you say there is no jnyana without

bhakti, for without bhakti the mind is forever asserting its

independence. Bhakti dissolves the clouds of the mind to let the Sun

shine.

 

> i am the 'prema' in Gopi's hearts!!!

 

But AdiMa, hasn't the Gopi already lost her heart? How is it that she

has lost her heart? Isn't the heart one's very self? In the rapture

of prema, the Gopi has found that her heart is His Heart - it is the

union of perfect Advaitam!

 

 

Warm regards,

Chittaranjan