New member / Tony

[Guest guest]

Namaste Tony,

 

I'm new to this list and to Advaita and I am here to unlearn, I hope, about any

pre-conceived I may have of Advaita. I must say that I do not think to have any

ideas about Advaita.

 

To take your image of << putting oil on the fire only increasing the desire >>,

what bugs me is to much cold also turns it into ice. In other words over

intellectualization is a also a trap. Often because of emotional trauma in

childhood some will trap themselves in the intellect, thinking, only, they have

resolved all their own Karma. Its spiritual death...

 

Talking about attachment, your opinion stated below is interesting : << They are

like heroin, one shot and your hooked. >> The way of Amoghasiddhis is, says Lama

Anagarika Govinda, again, the embodiment of that highest freedom, in which an

Enlightened One moves through this world, without creating new karmic bonds by

his actions, i.e. without the formation of egocentric tendencies (samskara).

 

In your vision, tell me Tony how a person for whom any form of attachment

becomes likes heroin, one shot and his hooked, how such a person can walk though

this world without creating new karmic bounds?

 

I am not a Tibetan Buddhist, nor am I Advaitin or a this or that. This said I

must say I would find it interesting to be a Tibetan monk and read what you say:

<< This type of Tibetan teaching always seemed to be an excuse for enjoying

rather than rising above. It reminds me of what Saint Augustine said in one

tongue in cheek teaching. 'Lord give the grace to give up my desires, but not

just yet.' paraphrased. >>

 

You have allot to heal Tony, and I admire you courage in doing so.

 

Antoine

 

 

 

 

Namaste Antoine,

 

Welcome here, I see you posted this on Harsha;

 

It seems to me this type of Buddhistic Thought or Mahayana is a

little more to the Bon Po. I say this for it doesn't really negate

the senses 'neti neti' or even pratyahara or withdrawal. It seems

somewhat similar to Osho and his Tantra which worked on the same

premise of exhaustion of desires, and experiencing.

 

In Vedanta it is more likely to teach that pouring any oil on the

fire only increases the desire. For one cannot be a little

bit 'Liberated'. The Bhodhisattva Path ends in Non-Moksha, for there

is still the idea to take rebirth and help. Even the Buddha's

Vipassana is not like these Tibetean teachings. I am not saying they

are wrong, but they are not Advaita in philosophy.

If one could give up all attachment to the senses as an infant it

would be better than experiencing any of them. They are like heroin,

one shot and your hooked.

 

In Vedanta, apart from Tantra, the most similar path would be

Bhakti, however the love is directed at the source not the results,

as experiencing senses.

 

This type of Tibetan teaching always seemed to be an excuse for

enjoying rather than rising above. It reminds me of what Saint

Augustine said in one tongue in cheek teaching. 'Lord give the grace

to give up my desires, but not just yet.' paraphrased.

 

I'm not saying right or wrong, just that it isn't Advaita or most

Vedanta.............ONS...Tony.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

advaitin, Antoine Carré <antoine.carre@s...>

wrote:

>

> Namaste Tony,

>

> I'm new to this list and to Advaita and I am here to unlearn, I

hope, about any pre-conceived I may have of Advaita. I must say that

I do not think to have any ideas about Advaita.

>

> To take your image of << putting oil on the fire only increasing

the desire >>, what bugs me is to much cold also turns it into ice.

In other words over intellectualization is a also a trap. Often

because of emotional trauma in childhood some will trap themselves

in the intellect, thinking, only, they have resolved all their own

Karma. Its spiritual death...

>

> Talking about attachment, your opinion stated below is

interesting : << They are like heroin, one shot and your hooked. >>

The way of Amoghasiddhis is, says Lama Anagarika Govinda, again, the

embodiment of that highest freedom, in which an Enlightened One

moves through this world, without creating new karmic bonds by his

actions, i.e. without the formation of egocentric tendencies

(samskara).

>

> In your vision, tell me Tony how a person for whom any form of

attachment becomes likes heroin, one shot and his hooked, how such a

person can walk though this world without creating new karmic bounds?

>> Antoine

 

Namaste A,

 

Let me start with this quote from a Buddhist Text;

 

That bhikkhu who has crossed the mire,

Crushed the thorn of sensual desire,

And reached the destruction of delusion

Is not perturbed by pleasures and pains.

 

Udana III, 2

 

One can walk through the world without creating karmic bonds by the

process of Nishkarma Karma, or giving up the fruits of actions to

the Divine, for we are not the doer-Who am I?- and the actions are

predetermined anyway. Even if we are not an enlightened one.

With regard to 'too much cold turns to ice', this is probably a

truism for the fire of desire has to be put out and turned to ice.

Except for eating and drinking and usual bodily functions all

actions and desires can be binding. We have to completely reverse

the process of manifestation and desire.

>From 'Be as you are' --Ramana Maharshi;

 

Q 'Now for instance I put this fan that is in my hand down on the

floor here. Can it be that it was already decided that on such and

such a day, at such and such an hour, I should move the fan like

this and put it down here?

 

A. Ramana; Certainly. Whatever this body is to do and whatever

experience it is to pass through was already decided when it came

into existance.

 

 

Q. What becomes then of man's freedom and responsibility for his

actions?

 

A.Ramana: The only freedom man has is to strive and acquire the

jnana which will enable him not to identify himself with the

body.The body will go through the actions rendered inevitable by

prarabdah.

 

Ajata( non creation) is the ultimate truth. Just as primary is true

for a child, high school is true for a teenager, and university for

an adult, and post graduate for the ultimate educational institute.

None are wrong at their level but only the ultimate is the Truth.

 

There is no body, no creation and no Saguna/Iswara. Even in creation

Iswara is the total some of all the jivas, like a forest is total

some of trees.

Nirguna is inexplicable, for describing limits...........ONS..Tony.