Who is Krishna ---- ParamAtma

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tatasthaa : bindu ji tell us about ParamAtma ji

 

bindu : ParamAtma?

 

tatasthaa : ok ji

 

bindu : so will we talk about ParamAtma ?

 

tantrasiddhi : ok binduji

haresh): yes ji

 

bindu : 1st we will need a rule of thumb

 

tantrasiddhi : rule of thumb?

 

 

bindu : a unit of measure for example, JivAtma is the god of his own

universe. Why? Each being exists in its own universe. How can this

be? An ants universe is not known by a germ, nor is a sharks universe

known by a snake

a virus does not know the creature he has infiltrated, so these are

separate universes.

 

Fallen : but they live in the same universe even so.........

 

tantrasiddhi : hmm yes.

 

bindu : You guys do not see my life and i do not see yours, so we are

in separate universes.

 

bindu : Not so Fallen. The word is the SAME cosmos, not the SAME

universe - now we know as i have described above

that there can be an uncountable number of universes - consider

numberless germs

 

cusp : bindu prabhu, if i may

 

bindu : sure Cusp?

 

cusp : what are the indian (Sanskrit) terms for universe and cosmos?

 

bindu : Jagat is Universe, I am not sure of the word for cosmos i do

not use much Sanskrit, anyway.

 

cusp : anyway, Jagat means that which changes.

 

bindu : Consider numberless germs, numberless fishes and you can

start to get a handle on the number of universes, not to mention the

uncountable number of beings which we cannot even see; all these

beings know stuff about their universe

 

cusp Ok go on i don't think there are equivalents.

 

tatasthaa : He breath outs innumerable universes.

 

Fallen : But we are even in the same world, how can it be that not in

the same universe?

 

bindu COSMOS FALLEN, not Universe, not world; The sum of all those

universes he breathes out is what is called the cosmos

 

tatasthaa : jai radhe

 

bindu : so then, those beings know stuff at their level He is the

self in all, so he knows all ... << this is how he is omniscient.

 

tatasthaa : yes.

 

tantrasiddhi : hmmm yes.

 

bindu : so he is also present in them all.

 

tatasthaa : he is in them all.

 

bindu : This is how he is omnipresent.

 

bindu : ^o then this Sum of all these beings (NOT JUST IN THIS WORLD)

but in all lokas,realms, worlds, existences, modes, and so on - all

those selves are him

 

bindu : so that sum of all those beings is The Atman - "NOT ParaAtma"

 

tatasthaa : jai radhe

 

bindu : ParaAtma is that one in whom all this appears - Think of

it!!! Soem stupendous being has thought all this and it has appeared

in him!

 

 

 

cusp : Upanishad Says in the beginning, there was One he created the

world in himself then went into it, so this one is the Atma or the

Para atma?

 

bindu : yes cusp but that one still IS, He has not gone anywhere

 

cusp : hehe yes indeed.

 

bindu : now ...let us talk NOT of Atman - but of ParamAtma before all

this came

 

tantrasiddhi : what is in the drop of water is in the ocean.

 

bindu : now, all this that i have described above,is yes a mere drop,

but lets us not make comparisons lets stay with ParamAtma

 

tantrasiddhi : om tat sat, jai

 

bindu : All this no matter that it is impossibly huge and

stupendously filled with His Self - it is mere consciousNESS

yet it is HE (the ParaAtma) who is Conscious of it. He exists before

what appeared in him; what appeared is\was the consciousNESS, but He

is its source, An example is, wetNESS is not Water... nor is water

WetNESS - He is neither this nor that.

 

tatasthaa : jai, the sun alone exists.

 

bindu : Yes, Tantra. He is like the water, but "ONLY LIKE" it, He

cannot be compared to anything at all.

 

tatasthaa : bindu ji.. can i say something here

 

bindu : surely tatasthaa

 

tatasthaa : We can say that the sun alone exists; it is surely

foolish to say the sun and heat and light exists.. because we know

when the sun exists they exists automatically with the sun; but that

doesn't mean we can say heat and light does not exist... because it

only means the sun doesn't exist.

 

cusp : jai

 

bindu : Yes, provided there is something for the light\heat to travel

in (i.e. time\space) in the ParamAtma there is no distance, no time;

How can there be when he is all that exists as well as that which

that which exists exists "IN"?

 

In the Absence of Hearing - In the Absence of Seeing - In the Absence

of Tasting - In the Absence of Sensation - In the Absence of Scent. -

In the Absence of Thought - The Self Resides in Himself.

 

tantrasiddhi : hmmm

 

 

bindu : Conversely.

In the comparison of sound to soundlessness, I appear. In the

comparison of the seen to the unseen, I appear. In the comparison of

what is tasted to the tasteless, I appear. In the comparison of

Sensation to sensationlessness, I appear. In the comparison of Scent

to the odorless, I appear. In the comparison of emptiness to

fullness - cognition appears composed of all these. Thus the jiva

appears; as does the whole of relativity.

 

cusp : Hearer of hearing, the seer of seeing....

 

tatasthaa : jai radhe! Or beyond the hearer of hearing.. and the seer

of seeing

 

cusp : jai

 

bindu : yes, now study this next carefully:

The beginning of comprehension - The beginning of apperception - The

Beginning of I-ness - arises from the speck-like particle of the

beginning of the comparison of emptiness, to what is not.

 

Look carefully at this part especially:

"arises from the speck-like particle of the beginning of the

comparison of emptiness, to what is not."

 

But The Self (ParaAtma) is nothing like nothing compared to emptiness.

 

Think; He is devoid of attributes: Yet all this appears in Him

 

tatasthaa (4:29:42 PM): yes ji

 

bindu : It is reflected in him as a mere speck and fragments into

countless things and beings because consciousness is like a mirror of

a mirror of a mirror forever ... hence atoms coagulate into forms and

diversity appears to appear where there really is none

 

tatasthaa : The Beginning of I-ness - arises from the speck-like

particle of the beginning of the comparison of emptiness, to what is

not. ARE U SAYING THAT THE MATTER IS ARISING FROM THE ANTI-MATTER?

 

bindu Well, you could say that matter is arising from The Sakti

instead.

 

tatasthaa : YES YES JI!, hehe, arising from him, from HIS Sakti

 

bindu : Think of it like this: In the empty total ParamAtma, there is

a massive power existing as the potency of Null to manifest or hold

anything.... due to that very emptines it exists, this is the Sakti.

 

tantrasiddhi : what do u think of astral Travel, ji, when people

travel leaving their body for example yogis.

 

bindu : i person will only talk of astral travel in person, not here.

 

tatasthaa : ok ji

 

bindu : So this massive power fills infinity - it is Kali... it is

Bhairava-Sakti

 

tantrasiddhi : fills infinity hmmmmm.

 

bindu : To go there the death of the jiva results, because there can

be nothing but that, so then she (Sakti) has a tension we could call

a vibration

 

tantrasiddhi : Infinity is absebce of space ji.

 

bindu : yes exactly Tantra, NON space - i.e. Nothing like nothing

compared to emptiness.

 

tantrasiddhi : vibration hmmmm movement between ends

 

bindu : It REFLECTS thus consciousness arises, flashing in and out of

existence

see this page:

 

http://www.upnaway.com/~bindu/animbindu/animbindu.htm

 

This is an aproximation of what is occuring; see the third image down

the page.

 

So this flashing is called in Spanda Karika, "The Spanda Principal",

or Spanda-Sakti; Utpaladeva and Ksemaraja have written of it in great

detail.

 

tatasthaa : jai radhe

 

tantrasiddhi : hmmm very systematic ji, nice pageji

 

bindu : It is the flashing in and out of existence of Sri-Krishna, it

is the manifestation of the Yugas, the pulse of time; the primordial

A-U-M.... He breathes in he breathes out

 

tatasthaa : Jai radhe!

 

bindu : He comes he disappears utterly.

 

tantrasiddhi : like sexual intercourse.

 

bindu : yes siva sakti yes, coming from his transcendental abode

 

Fallen : Aum is the representative sound of sri Krishna.

 

bindu : Yes, Om Sri Jai Ram! SO the lord manifests as the Cosmos

which is Atman (in sri-Krishna ) who is ParamAtma

Thus the consciousNESS arises out of "HE who is the only ONE who is

Conscious" - i.e Sri-Krishna, does that answer your question?

 

tantrasiddhi (4:39:59 PM): hmmm y

 

cusp : jai

 

tatasthaa : jai radhe

 

tantrasiddhi : jai shambho, jai Kali!

 

tatasthaa : In your explanation i even forgot my question.

 

bindu : He exists prior to consciousness.

 

tantrasiddhi : jai krishna

 

tatasthaa : jai Radhe bindu ji

 

haresh : jai Shri Krishna!

 

bindu : Thu this embraces the Advaitin doctrine also.

 

tatasthaa : well explained

 

bindu : He is the only one, and sri-Krishna is Triumphant in Himself

OM.

 

tatasthaa : the question was what is ParamAtma, and i understood that

it is krishna

 

haresh : jai shri hari.

 

tatasthaa : haresh ji

 

haresh : yes ji

 

tatasthaa : Did u understand that ji?

 

tatasthaa : jai radhe krishna. Hope u would feel better tantra ji,

take care, jai radhe

 

tantrasiddhi : bye everyone ji.

 

haresh : bye tantra ji

tantrasiddhi : thanks ji. bye hareshji.

 

tatasthaa : bindu ji, can u give me the key words from this?

 

tantrasiddhi : bye and thanks @binduji.

 

bindu : Welcome Tantra, always.

 

cusp : siddha take care.

 

tatasthaa In the ParamAtma there is no distance. this is one of the

key phrases from the discourse

 

cusp : Yes, yes, He is here and there...He reaches a place before you

and leaves the place before you do....and He is always there in the

present second, which means He is beyond time as the present second

is eternal. lol.

 

bindu : i will create a file and post it to my archive.

 

tatasthaa : In the empty total ParamAtma massive power exists. This

is the second key phrase.

 

bindu : you will find it here on week One in November 2004:

 

Ananta Yoga Archive

 

tatasthaa : so this massive power fills infinity bindu: it is Kali...

it is Bhairava-Sakti - this is the third point

tatasthaa : so In the paramAtma there is no distance... in the empty

total ParamAtma, massive power exists.. that massive power is called

Kali.

 

bindu : "A moving arrow always moves in a space equal to itself" so

does it move? No, it does not and cannot move at all; hence the

cosmos does not exist due to the fact that atoms, though they seem to

move, do not move at all, just as our arrow, they do not move at all.

 

haresh : Is it important to study all this learn all this? Just doing

sadhna wont do the work?

 

tatasthaa (4:53:33 PM): aw, i thought i was going somewhere.. but i

am still standing still !!!!!! hahahaha, haresh ji

don't u worry, just chant his name .

 

cusp : hehe...when there is no second entity, how can any action take

place...and when there is no action, there is nothing acted upon...so

there is no meaning for act or actor or acted upon.

 

 

bindu : So the self hides from himself so he can get the joy of

finding himself in himself again and again!. However, who is the doer

is the question an advaitin will ask.

 

tatasthaa : krishna krishna krishna krishna.

 

bindu : yes, Krishna.

 

haresh : krishnaaa - mere shyamu sundaraa!

 

tatasthaa : Another salient point is, She sakti has a tention that is

called vibration

 

bindu : No haresh it is not necessary to know all this, or to be a

jnani.... but devotion is necessary He himself has said my devotees

will come to Me no one else will. So your devotion can go to

ParamAtma or remain totally devoted as you are able - give your all.

It is all according to the being you are; but some need the full

picture as i have given.

 

haresh : thank you ji, and others?

 

cusp jai

 

tatasthaa : A summation might be: In the ParamAtma there is no

distance, the empty total ParamAtma massive power exists. so this

massive power fills infinity...that massive power is called

Kali....all dynamism is attributed to Shakti ...that could be called

a vibration; so far so good.

 

haresh : jai ho nishu ji ki.

 

bindu : the emptinesss is the potential - it is in comprehensible

power

 

cusp : oh, prabhu ji, The tree in the seed - The potential.

 

bindu : m

tatasthaa : it is the flashing in and out of existence of Sri-Krishna

 

bindu : m

 

tatasthaa : So: In the ParamAtma there is no distance, in the empty

total ParaAtma massive power exists. so this massive power fills

infinity...that massive power is called Kali....all dynamism is

attributed to Shakti ...that could be called a vibration.it is the

flashing in and out of existence of Sri-Krishna.

 

tatasthaa : why in and out ji, why it is not just a constant?

 

bindu : You could say appearing and disappearing or the creation and

dissolution if you want.

 

tatasthaa : ohhh, ok.

 

bindu : Or you could say it neither exists nor does not exist, since

at a given phase of vibration it is not yet manifest as the next

phase and the last phase is gone - hence what we see is already over,

because time has passed

so nothing is seen at all, because we are seeing the past. Light

takes aeons to reach us from Alpha-Centauri for example. It also

takes time from the screen to your eye\brain; so what you are seeing

has gone already; so you are seeing nothing at al, OM!

 

cusp : true..hehe we believe this for distant stars generally.

 

bindu : IN the NOW before time, HE exists; NO ONE ELSE.

 

Fallen : But we always see something.

 

bindu (5:06:47 PM): Fallen it becomes this as it folds back into Him,

hence it appears and resolves back into Him.

 

cusp (5:06:58 PM): Stars that we see in the sky may not exist at this

present moment, because the light from the star takes thousands of

years to reach us...

 

bindu : yes.

 

tatasthaa : yes ananda..

 

bindu : Always the past tata.

 

cusp : Similar is the case with what we see around. only the

thousands of years is boiled down to zillionths of a second.

tatasthaa : Yes and it would have moved.. we are just seeing the

light.

 

bindu : Yes, light\love is HIM. In Upanishad it says: "He is the

light of light. He is that which lights up light

 

Fallen (5:07:59 PM): he is not material light.....

 

bindu : Material light is always reflection fallen, but the

manifestation of physical reality has been proven to arise from light

in the heart of the atom, So he pops as photons in atoms, but the

photons only create matter when they collide so there must have been

a first Photon to start it all in the 1st place, if that, then the

light lighting that first photon arose in and from Him So HE IS

LOVE\LIGHT! and atoms are built up from the photons; so science

proves he exists! Again He is triumphant.

 

bindu : Imagine, between all atoms is space, it is therefore

connected to other space in all other supposed separate atoms, they

are not separate nor is the non-existent ONE so Sri-Krishna in the

Absolute Para-Brahman also, Om. He is invincible. Jai Sri _Krishna!

 

cusp : jai

 

tatasthaa : jai Radhe

 

haresh : jai Radhe!

 

tatasthaa : So does that mean Krishna comes and goes.. and we cannot

see him ,, but just a trace that he has been there

 

cusp (5:11:20 PM): He is a thief

 

bindu : Yes tata..

 

cusp : Oh in fact we are always seeing him...we disappear along with

Krishna and reappear with Him.

 

bindu : yes that is right exactly cusp. So who are you? The Self is

HIM. He is in all of US, He is the conscious ONE

 

cusp (5:12:18 PM): He is the i. lol.

 

Fallen : bindu, The Self is Him?

 

haresh : He is going so we are also going because Krishna is within us

 

cusp : not self prabhu, Self - Self with a capital "S"

 

tatasthaa : But where do we disappear?

 

cusp : the world of words is fun.

tatasthaa : where does he disappear to?

 

bindu : He does not disappear and appear elsewhere as the entire

cosmos (which is all wheres and all places disappears along with Him,

so we die until we realise Him.

 

cusp : oh ma, we go into nothingness aka the transcendental, so we

use the word disappear. I thought we are dead until we realise. Or

rather we think we are dead hehe Krishna

 

tatasthaa : Only Krishna is conscious!

 

Fallen : We cannot disappear we always exist.

 

tatasthaa : We are always in unconsciousness till we realise Him.

When we realise, we can run with Him or rather we realise that we are

running with Him.

 

bindu : Now i will tell you a great secret

 

 

bindu : think now about Time.

 

cusp : see the past and future in the present.

 

bindu : To Him any Time no matter how long is an almost invisible

speck .. (THIS IS WHY WE think time is passing) it is why there seems

to be seconds ... but before even a nanosecond is passed, the whole

cosmos has gone and come many times (TO HIM), though these seem like

microseconds. TO HIM.

 

So we think a second passed, but who is the Conscious ONE? He is.

 

cusp : haha...reminds me of the turtle.: or the snail, should i say.

 

bindu : So in reality those seconds are ages long, we do not know it,

But "HE DOES"!

 

tatasthaa : but when we call Krishna.. he will hear it immediately

because it is His name.

 

bindu : The universe has come and gone trillions of times since we

began this conversation!

 

cusp : jai!

 

bindu : SO then, Time - ALL OF IT is IN HIM, it is spread out in him

Like a blanket. He transcends it totally. OM Jai Sri _ram

 

Fallen : we do not have to say his name for him to listen tata......

 

bindu : Now who can refute these great truths here? No one. He is The

Truth ONLY

 

Fallen : keep your spirit up, i must go, Radha-Krishna.

 

tatasthaa : jai radhe Krishna, jai radhe fallen ji, take care - jai

radhe

 

bindu : bye now, fallen.

 

haresh (5:20:34 PM): radhe shyam fallen pprabhu ji

 

bindu : so, are there any more questions?

 

tatasthaa : ji, still iam not clear. but i will write down some

doubts and ask u

 

bindu (5:23:07 PM): sure

 

cusp (5:23:21 PM): jai

 

tatasthaa (5:23:29 PM): so one didn't become many? The One is still

One; He is still one but he appears to be many as he moves quickly.

 

bindu : Of course.

 

cusp : ma the one is many but not many. lol he is one only!

 

tatasthaa : jai, hehe, me is filled with Krishna, therefore my head

is heavy.

 

bindu : yes cusp, but watch out here:

 

HE IS YOU

YOU ARE NOT NOT NOT HIM. see?

 

tatasthaa : yes ji

 

bindu : An old saying goes

 

bindu : You are He who is without thou!

 

tatasthaa : i am him. but he is not me.

 

bindu : NO.

 

cusp : some one said : self-realization is - The death while being

alive of that which lives after death

 

bindu : He is you you are not Him.

 

tatasthaa : He is me and i am not him.

 

cusp : He is the you that imagines who you yourself are...so the you,

you imagine yourself to be, cannot be he.

 

bindu : A good way to say it cusp, yes tata that is it. The attitude

we must have inside ourselves

because we live is this>>>>>>

 

Pranams to Thou Oh Lord of My OWN Heart

never say I

never say me

Say only Thou to Him- THOU. see?

 

He is the lord you are not.

so say Thou oh great lord ....

Thou and only thou not ME, not I - Thou. See?

 

cusp (: jai

 

bindu : me? who is that? never heard of him.

 

bindu : He lives in our own hearts as The Self, He ALONE EXISTS, so

that same Self in all is Him

 

cusp : hehe jaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!

 

bindu : so have the attitude like this to all beings also.

 

tatasthaa : IF I EXISTED IN THE FIRST PLACE I WILL CEASE TO EXIST!

but since i never existed how can i cease to exist?

HE ALONE EXISTS!!

 

bindu : now see this, it will kill everyone.

 

The Fruit of Realization

 

 

tatasthaa : BUT JI IF THIS I IS OF HIM IT WILL EXIST FOREVER AND

ETERNALLY

 

bindu : read this

 

tatasthaa (: BUT THIS I IS HIM.

 

bindu : read, however you are right but He is The Master The i only

exists because you live.

when you die you will realize Him.

 

tatasthaa : WHY THINK LIKE THAT JI? WHERE IS THIS I IN THE BODY? CAN

WE POINT TO A CERTAIN PART? No!

 

bindu : what body? Where??

 

tatasthaa : THIS I IS HIM This I is him ji

bindu : he transcends existence

 

tatasthaa : The Self is I, He is I, therefore one cannot take away

the I or you - as long He exists I and you will exist

 

bindu : Yes The Self is but you are not, You are not Him, He is you,

but that one refereed to as not Mim but "ME" is the Jiva so be

careful here.

 

tatasthaa : ok ji. Thank you for wonderful explanation ji! Very nice

 

bindu : one must be very careful with this tata

 

tatasthaa : Jai radhe krishna, yes ji.

 

bindu : Jai

 

tatasthaa : Jai radhe

 

bindu : What happens is this: He speaks, it is recorded in the log

file. i know not what he will say, so now we have a gift from Him,

which i will edit and make available

 

tatasthaa : jai

 

cusp (5:36:32 PM): jai

 

tatasthaa : jai radhe haresh ji, Jai radhe ananda - i better get

going..

 

bindu : see you tata

tatasthaa : jai radhe krishna

 

bindu : Namaste JI, Jai Hare Bol!

 

tatasthaa : Jai radhe krishna

 

cusp : Jagadananda Jai

haresh : jai

bindu : Jai Jai Jai Jai Jai Jai

bindu : Sri Ram

haresh : shyamu mei tuje mal mal ke nilaoon@prabhu ji

 

haresh such a nice bhajan@prabhu ji