Guest guest Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Namaste, triguNaatmaasheshhalokamaalikaasuutramasmyaham.h | iti nishchayamevaatra hyupavItaM paraM matam.h || 16 || The supremely esteemed sacred thread is verily the conviction here held as: 'I am the thread (holding) the garland of the whole universe (comprised) of the three modes of Nature.' triguNa = the three modes of Nature aatma = Self asheshha = whole loka = universe maalikaa = garland suutram = thread asmi = am aham = I iti = thus nishchayam = determination eva = only atra = here hi = verily upavItaM = sacred thread paraM = supreme matam = esteemed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Respected Shri Sunderji, Namaste! I am enjoying the beautiful rendition of Shri Shankara's Nirgun Manas Puja. I have a query about the latest shloka: Reorganising in four quarters of Anushtubh metre triguNaatmaasheshhaloka- maalikaasuutramasmyaham.h | itinishchayamevaatra- hyupavItaM I have found Sanskrit verse to adhere strictly to metrical rules. The fifth letter of every quarter of Anushtubh is always laghu. The sixth letter of the first quarter is always guru. However the letter 'she' is guru while the letter 'shha' is laghu. Is it an error, or are such variations permitted? How can Atma be comprised of Three Gunas? It is always Gunateeta. Can you please explain? With best regards Ravi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Namaste Raviji, Good point! I think think the 'sandhi-vigraha' should have been " triguNAtma + asheSha ", rather than " triguNa + Atma ", thus conveying the meaning "world comprised of three modes". From what little I know of sanskrit meters, anuShTup itself has many subtypes, so this variation could possibly be one such. Another explanation I have come across is the 'poetic licence' (or 'ArSha prayoga' ) sometimes used! Some sanskrit scholar on the list may help us out,if s/he reads this. Regards, Sunder advaitin, Ravi Shivde <shivde@s...> wrote: > I have a query about the latest shloka: > > Reorganising in four quarters of Anushtubh metre > triguNaatmaasheshhaloka- maalikaasuutramasmyaham.h | > itinishchayamevaatra- hyupavItaM > > I have found Sanskrit verse to adhere strictly to metrical rules. The fifth letter of every quarter of Anushtubh is always laghu. The sixth letter of the first quarter is always guru. However the letter 'she' is guru while the letter 'shha' is laghu. Is it an error, or are such variations permitted? > > How can Atma be comprised of Three Gunas? It is always Gunateeta. Can you please explain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 Namaste Sunderji and Raviji. Can't we read it this way: "triguNatmaM assheSha..."? If grammar permits, that solves the metre problem. TriguNatmaM (if accepted!) also means consisting of three threads. So, the three guNAs become the three threads on which the garland of this universe is strung. It can also refer to the three states - through which the universe and its absence is expressed. All creation is thus triguNatmaM - like we say triguNAtmikA mAyA - and the sacred fibre that sustains the three threads (guNAs as well as states) and the manifest beautiful garland of entire creation is the Self. We are now at paTavat of BS. I think paraM should thus go with upavItaM to indicate that it is the ultimate thread that weaves in and binds everything together. Hope I haven't taken poetic licence with grammar! PraNAms. Madathil Nair ________________ advaitin, "Sunder Hattangadi" <sunderh> wrote: > > ...............> > I think think the 'sandhi-vigraha' should > have been " triguNAtma + asheSha ", rather than " triguNa + Atma ", > thus conveying the meaning "world comprised of three modes". > > From what little I know of sanskrit meters, anuShTup > itself has many subtypes, so this variation could possibly be one > such. Another explanation I have come across is the 'poetic licence' > (or 'ArSha prayoga' ) sometimes used! ................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 Namaste Madathilji, Unfortunately grammar does not permit the declination AtmaM ! [stem word Atman] triguNAtmaka would be a correct form in the compound word [samAsa] (and your interpretation will fit it), but it will not fit the meter either. I think poetic licence is better documented than grammatical one! Thanks for the novel approach. Regards, Sunder advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair" <madathilnair> wrote: > Can't we read it this way: > > "triguNatmaM assheSha..."? > > If grammar permits, that solves the metre problem. > > Hope I haven't taken poetic licence with grammar! > > PraNAms. > > Madathil Nair > ________________ > > advaitin, "Sunder Hattangadi" <sunderh> > wrote: > > > > ...............> > > I think think the 'sandhi-vigraha' should > > have been " triguNAtma + asheSha ", rather than " triguNa + Atma ", Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 Namaste Sunderji. In fact, I tried 'trigunAtmaka'. Unfortunately, that fails the rule suggested by Raviji! By the way, I am inclined to question the rule itself, i.e. fifth syllable short and sixth long, as many compositions in anuStubh are seen to fail it. E.g.: SrI LalitA Trishati, which begins 'kakArarUpA kalyANI'. AnuStubh looks like to simply and mainly mean only four times eight syllables. PraNAms. Madathil Nair ________________________ advaitin, "Sunder Hattangadi" <sunderh> wrote: > > Unfortunately grammar does not permit the declination > AtmaM ! [stem word Atman] > > triguNAtmaka would be a correct form in the compound > word [samAsa] (and your interpretation will fit it), but it will not > fit the meter either. > > I think poetic licence is better documented than > grammatical one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 Namaste Madathilji, For a simple introduction to chandas and vrittas : http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part8/chap1.htm (Chap. 1 to 7) Also: http://www.hindunet.org/srh_home/1995_12/msg00354.html ....."Chanda is the metre that is used, and can be derived from the sequence of "long" (guru - heavy) and "short" (laghu - light) syllables. So for instance, anushtup (or anushtubh) chanda is in four lines (A=any, S=short, L=long) A A A A S L L A / A A A A S L S A for each half of the verse. There are permitted variations. The Vrttaratnakara ("Treasure chest of metres"(?)) by Kedara is a pretty classic definition of all these. Fascinating in that each verse is set to the chanda that it is describing!!! To start with though, try Teach Yourself Sanskrit by Michael Coulson. It has a half chapter and an appendix devoted to metre which is quite readable for anyone familiar with Sanskrit. It is also a fairly comprehensive introduction to Sanskrit,...................." [For Pingala's Chanda Shastra , original - http://www.archive.org/texts/texts-details-db.php?collection=millionbooks&collec\ tionid=ChandasSastram] Regards, Sunder advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair" <madathilnair> wrote: > By the way, I am inclined to question the rule itself, i.e. fifth > syllable short and sixth long, as many compositions in anuStubh are > seen to fail it. E.g.: SrI LalitA Trishati, which > begins 'kakArarUpA kalyANI'. AnuStubh looks like to simply and > mainly mean only four times eight syllables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 Thanks Dr. Sunderji! You have written out the right prescription. Will certainly try that. PraNAms. Madathil Nair _________________ advaitin, "advaitins" <advaitins> wrote: > For a simple introduction to chandas and vrittas : > > http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part8/chap1.htm (Chap. 1 to 7) > > > Also: > http://www.hindunet.org/srh_home/1995_12/msg00354.html.......... .......To start with though, try Teach Yourself Sanskrit by Michael Coulson. > It has a half chapter and an appendix devoted to metre which is quite > readable for anyone familiar with Sanskrit. It is also a fairly > comprehensive introduction to Sanskrit,...................." > > [For Pingala's Chanda Shastra , original - > http://www.archive.org/texts/texts-details-db.php? collection=millionbooks&collectionid=ChandasSastram] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 Namaste, For 'precise diagnosis' one will have to go to: http://www.mail-archive.com/sanskrit (AT) cs (DOT) utah.edu/msg00149.html Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:31:54 -0500 "J. K. Mohana Rao" <[email PROTECTED]> [sanskrit] anushTubh "Actually, in Chandas, there are 26 types of Chandas. The first one has one letter, the second one two, and so on, and the 26th has 26 letters. Each Chandas has a name. The first one is SrI. The eighth one is called anushTubh Chandas. There are 2^8 (256) metres in this Chandas. The so-called shlOka is generic one. Out of all 256 possibilities, only some have names given by prosodists. In the shlOka variant, the first four letters could be guru or laghu. It really does not matter. The restrictions come only in the later half. I follow the ya-ja rule. The gaNa with the letters 5,6,7 is ya for odd and ja for even pAdAs. ya-gaNa = short-long-long or laghu-guru-guru ja-gaNa = short-long-short or laghu-guru-laghu In fact, Chandas and its rules are mentioned in agnipurANa. The famous treatise on Chandas is by PingaLa. There is also a book by kEdArabhaTTa called vR^ittaratnAkara. Chandas is one of the six vedAngas. Of all the ancient arts, Chandas is perhaps one of the most highly mathematical ones. Long long ago, it seems ages now, I wrote a few articles on Chandas in the Sanskrit Digest. They may be there still in the archives somewhere. Of late, I am concentrating on the Telugu Chandassu, particularly on imbedded metres, as well as laya in classical poetry. The prosody we have now in many Indian languages is a healthy mixture of Sanskrit, prAkR^it and dESi. The study of Sanskrit prosody is one of the great delights I ever experienced. Greater than even the concept of zero is the one embodied in ya-mA-tA-rA-ja-bhA-na-sa-la-gaM! advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair" <madathilnair> wrote: > You have written out the right prescription. > Will certainly try that. > > advaitin, "advaitins" <advaitins> wrote: > > For a simple introduction to chandas and vrittas : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Namaste all, AnushTubh appears to be the commonest metre in Sanskrit literature.The verses in the Bhagawadgita are in two metres, Anushtubha (e.g.dharmakshtre kurukshtre) and Upajati (e.g. vAsAMsi jeerNani). All the verses in Anushtubh are found to conform to the rule regarding long and short letters. The same appears to be the case in general in classical Sanskrit. Prosodic rules primarily serve a musical purpose. If they are not followed the sound appears jarring to the ear. However as Shri Maniji has pointed out, exceptions may be found. In fact AnuShuTbha appears to be a class of metres, the common Shloka being the most popular variety.Members may find the following information from Sanskrit Digest interesting. Sanskrit Digest, Vol 13, Issue 3 "J. K. Mohana Rao" Actually, in Chandas, there are 26 types of Chandas. The first one has one letter, the second one two, and so on, and the 26th has 26 letters. Each Chandas has a name. The first one is SrI. The eighth one is called anushTubh Chandas. There are 2^8 (256) metres in this Chandas. The so-called shlOka is generic one. Out of all 256 possibilities, only some have names given by prosodists. In the shlOka variant, the first four letters could be guru or laghu. It really does not matter. The restrictions come only in the later half. I follow the ya-ja rule. The gaNa with the letters 5,6,7 is ya for odd and ja for even pAdAs. ya-gaNa = short-long-long or laghu-guru-guru ja-gaNa = short-long-short or laghu-guru-laghu In fact, Chandas and its rules are mentioned in agnipurANa.The famous treatise on Chandas is by PingaLa. There is also a book by kEdArabhaTTa called vR^ittaratnAkara. It is also said that AnuShTubha was derived by adding a fourth line to Gayatri Chhanda. With best regards Ravi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Thank you Ravi-ji for starting this interesting thread ! and i would like to thank our beloved and learned Sunder-ji for posting those valuable links from Kamakoti.org. Yes, i am all for Grammar , enunciation and intonation etc.... chandas, nirukta etc are important but in reality what is the purpose behind chanting 'the nirguna manasa' puja ? AS our respected Kanchi Maha Periyavaal states in the article mentioned by Sunder-ji ... "Chandas is the means by which we ensure that the Vedic mantra is preserved in its original form, it being impossible to add one letter to it or take away another. The very purpose of the Vedas is the raising up of the Self. " and if a mukakavi can become eloquent due to the grace of Devi and if Kalidasa can become so proficient in composing poems and plays, we all can also become eloquent in due course of time by worshipping the saguna form of Devi! After all the 51 letters of the Sanskrit alphabet reprsents the shakti pitahas in one's body!!! May i leave you with this verse from ADI SHANKARA BHAGVADAPADA'S Mantra Matruka Pushpamala Stavam? HrimkArA trayasamputena mauOpasaye traylmaullibhir Vakyairlaksyatam O tava stutuvidhau ko vak sametaAmbike Sallapah: Stutayah: Pradaksin satam samiAran eva su te samve so namassah schastram akhilam tvatpritaye kalpatam Your Body is coposed of the Pancadasi mantra divided in three sentences , each of which concludes with Hrimkara , who can extol you in hymn or laud ? let my prattle be therefore be your praise ! my wanderings , a thousand circumbulations , my wayward mind going in thousand directions , an instrument of meditation! READ THE ENTIRE COMPOSITION http://www.svbf.org/sringeri/journal/vol1no4/mantra.pdf Jaya Jaya Shankara! Hara Hara Shankara ! AUM NAMO TRIPURASUNDARI! Ravi Shivde <shivde@s...> wrote: .. Prosodic rules primarily serve a musical purpose. If they are not followed the sound appears jarring to the ear. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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