Guest guest Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 hariH OM! as many may be aware, sri ramana often referred to the 'stateless state' (turiya) within Self-realization as sushupti-jagrat (awake with the unique feeling as if one were asleep). now, what's critical to understand in light of this, is that even though thoughts may continue, one gives them no undue weight, but acts accordingly, *as IF* they matter. one is therefore not weilding ego-Mind engaging judgments [either on the world, others, isvara or oneself]. rather, the undercurrent sense or bhavana is that All is ONE as well as ineffable and unknowable: a wondrous Mystery. moksha = sachidananda. thus the ananda is felt as an undercurrent or foundational to one's essential Beingness. even though, as for example in my own case, one may be feeling physical, mental and/or emotional pain, the ananda is yet at the base of awareness. now, if there is ever any doubt about this, simply feel yourself being while ignoring any and all thoughts attempting to divert your awareness. watch such thoughts as if you were in a theme park watching the fantastic and even frightening exhibits. they can't really hurt or even affect you in reality. in fact, if this can be done, virtually anyone can prove to themselves what advaita says from the very beginning, viz that we are *already* naturally Self-realized, that it's merely the Mind who's the culprit! as janaka proclaimed to astavakra, [paraphr] "show me this villain (the Mind), and i shall deal with it summarily!" OM ramanarpanamasthu! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 advaitin, "frank maiello" <egodust> wrote: > > hariH OM! > > as many may be aware, sri ramana often referred to the 'stateless > state' (turiya) within Self-realization as sushupti-jagrat (awake > with the unique feeling as if one were asleep). > > now, what's critical to understand in light of this, is that even > though thoughts may continue, one gives them no undue weight, but > acts accordingly, *as IF* they matter. one is therefore not weilding > ego-Mind engaging judgments [either on the world, others, isvara or > oneself]. rather, the undercurrent sense or bhavana is that All is > ONE as well as ineffable and unknowable: a wondrous Mystery. > > moksha = sachidananda. thus the ananda is felt as an undercurrent or > foundational to one's essential Beingness. even though, as for > example in my own case, one may be feeling physical, mental and/or > emotional pain, the ananda is yet at the base of awareness. now, if > there is ever any doubt about this, simply feel yourself being while > ignoring any and all thoughts attempting to divert your awareness. > watch such thoughts as if you were in a theme park watching the > fantastic and even frightening exhibits. they can't really hurt or > even affect you in reality. in fact, if this can be done, virtually > anyone can prove to themselves what advaita says from the very > beginning, viz that we are *already* naturally Self-realized, that > it's merely the Mind who's the culprit! as janaka proclaimed to > astavakra, [paraphr] "show me this villain (the Mind), and i shall > deal with it summarily!" > > OM ramanarpanamasthu! Namaste, I have a problem with Sat-Cit-Ananda being described as the ultimate, as it is an attribute, (or a quality Ramana says) isn't it? So can only be Iswara or Saguna as opposed to the concept of Nirguna.....ONS....Tony. Beyond the Turiya stage and thus beyond the gunas, lies, according the Yoga Vasistha, the Turiya-atita stage. This stage is said to be beyond even That which is termed 'Brahman', the 'Self'. Give up the attempt to know, to strive, "for it is beyond the practices which are described by those who undertake them. O sage, remain for ever in the third state [Turiya-atita]. That is the real worship of the Lord. Then you will be established in that which is beyond what is and what is not. Nothing has been created and there is nothing to vanish. It is beyond the one and the two. It is the eternal, beyond the eternal and the transient; it is all, it is suprem blessedness and peace, it is beyond expression. It is purest OM. It is transcendent. It is supreme." (Yoga Vasistha, VI.1.34). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 hariH OM! tony-ji, yes, turiyatita, an idea within the ajativada doctine, as well as "neti, neti, etc," are utilized to break the jiva's stubborn habit of attaching itself to its Mind. also, within this general [*vital* at a cetain stage] method, sri ramana used to describe satchitananda as integral to brahman as: "not without sat; not without chit; not without ananda." yoga vasishta, in this regard, is even outdone by the ashtavakra gita! these all clearly indicate an important methodology or sadhana applicable to a certain stage on the so- called 'path of return' to the Self. unfortunately, it isn't possible to address the various levels of comprehension of each aspirant on such a forum with members at different stages of development [insofar as where on the ladder of dissolution of the Mind's dependence on its exlusive egocentric ideology] is such aspirant. the way i see it, if it's important for you to embrace the ajativada doctrine, why engage in discussions on this List? there's nothing for you to say, other than expound this view repeatedly, refuting anything and everything said by the List members. no? tony-ji, it's obvious to point out the fact that if you took the absolute attributeless 'no-Thing' as not a means but in fact representing the *totality* of Reality and the only truth in existence *as [nirguna] brahamn* and effectively discount Its outbreath counterpart (saguna brahman) in the vyavahrara, then you must ask yourself--again--what are you trying to accomplish by being on this forum? if you're here to help anyone be liberated, ajatavada says there is no liberation and no-one to be liberated. namaste, frank ____________________ advaitin, "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote: > > > advaitin, "frank maiello" <egodust> > wrote: > > > > hariH OM! > > > > as many may be aware, sri ramana often referred to the 'stateless > > state' (turiya) within Self-realization as sushupti-jagrat (awake > > with the unique feeling as if one were asleep). > > > > now, what's critical to understand in light of this, is that even > > though thoughts may continue, one gives them no undue weight, but > > acts accordingly, *as IF* they matter. one is therefore not > weilding > > ego-Mind engaging judgments [either on the world, others, isvara > or > > oneself]. rather, the undercurrent sense or bhavana is that All > is > > ONE as well as ineffable and unknowable: a wondrous Mystery. > > > > moksha = sachidananda. thus the ananda is felt as an undercurrent > or > > foundational to one's essential Beingness. even though, as for > > example in my own case, one may be feeling physical, mental and/or > > emotional pain, the ananda is yet at the base of awareness. now, > if > > there is ever any doubt about this, simply feel yourself being > while > > ignoring any and all thoughts attempting to divert your > awareness. > > watch such thoughts as if you were in a theme park watching the > > fantastic and even frightening exhibits. they can't really hurt > or > > even affect you in reality. in fact, if this can be done, > virtually > > anyone can prove to themselves what advaita says from the very > > beginning, viz that we are *already* naturally Self-realized, that > > it's merely the Mind who's the culprit! as janaka proclaimed to > > astavakra, [paraphr] "show me this villain (the Mind), and i shall > > deal with it summarily!" > > > > OM ramanarpanamasthu! > > Namaste, > > I have a problem with Sat-Cit-Ananda being described as the > ultimate, as it is an attribute, (or a quality Ramana says) isn't > it? So can only be Iswara or Saguna as opposed to the concept of > Nirguna.....ONS....Tony. > > > Beyond the Turiya stage and thus beyond the gunas, lies, > according the Yoga Vasistha, the Turiya-atita stage. This stage > is said to be beyond even That which is termed 'Brahman', the > 'Self'. Give up the attempt to know, to strive, "for it is beyond the > practices which are described by those who undertake them. O > sage, remain for ever in the third state [Turiya-atita]. That is the > real worship of the Lord. Then you will be established in that > which is beyond what is and what is not. Nothing has been > created and there is nothing to vanish. It is beyond the one and > the two. It is the eternal, beyond the eternal and the transient; it > is > all, it is suprem blessedness and peace, it is beyond > expression. It is purest OM. It is transcendent. It is supreme." > (Yoga Vasistha, VI.1.34). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 advaitin, "frank maiello" <egodust> wrote: > yes, turiyatita, an idea within the ajativada doctine, > as well as "neti, neti, etc," are utilized to break the > jiva's stubborn habit of attaching itself to its Mind. > also, within this general [*vital*] at a cetain stage] > method, sri ramana used to describe satchitananda > as integral to brahman as: "not without sat; not > without chit; not without ananda." yoga vasishta, in > this regard, is even outdone by the ashtavakra gita! > these all clearly indicate an important methodology > or sadhana applicable to a certain stage on the > so-called 'path of return' to the Self. The Yoga Vasistha is one of my favorites, because it combines all the 'emptiness' wisdom of Buddhism with the 'fullness' wisdom of the Brahman tradition. But it also says something else wise, which I remember reading but am too lazy to look up: It says that all 'views' are both unreal yet real to the seeker at that level. So even dualism is 'real' to someone whose mind is at that level. This helps to explain some passages in Shankara where he is talking in dualist language for the benefit of the student. Same for Ramana. In other words, the rejection of views should not be a view in its own right! Just pure awareness, so that even the idea of 'levels of consciousness' is ultimately consumed in the fire. The various views are just the play of the mind and are as real or unreal as we take them to be. VERY tolerant! Nothing to argue about. :-) Benjamin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Namaste all That was lovely Benjamin ji-A view to view all views indeed many namaskarams to all sridhar advaitin, "Benjamin Orion" <orion777ben> wrote: > > > > In other words, the rejection of views should not > be a view in its own right! Just pure awareness, > so that even the idea of 'levels of consciousness' > is ultimately consumed in the fire. The various > views are just the play of the mind and are as > real or unreal as we take them to be. > > VERY tolerant! Nothing to argue about. :-) > > Benjamin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 > VERY tolerant! Nothing to argue about. :-) that's the reason gaudapaada says that advaitins have no quarrel with anybody and only dualists, by the very nature of their philosphy, quarrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Dear friends I am samant saurabh. Please tell me how to realize in meditation the supreme Lord bereft of all attributes . It is said that he who sees the one in the world of many the one changeles in the things that change . but how to realize this . and how to get rid of the ego. that i am the doer. and how to realize God in everything as vivekananda has said. Please tell how to attain self realization and equanimity of mind. Regards samant saurabh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Dear Friend: As you do your research, you will see that many paths will open to you and some path will seem natural and attractive to walk on. Here is the direct path mentioned by Sri Ramana. I will pass his on to HS and RM as well. "When unceasingly the mind Scans its own form There is nothing of the kind. For every one This path direct is open" (The Essence of Instruction in the Collected Works of Ramana Maharshi). All the beauty in forms is experienced in awareness. Therefore, awareness holds the supreme beauty or is the nature of supreme beauty it self. So if with the mind (awake with the awareness permeating the mind) one scans the mind (the nature of this awareness) then the spring that is ananda without form seeps forth. Harsha saurabh ananda wrote: > > Dear friends > > I am samant saurabh. Please tell me how to realize in meditation the > supreme Lord bereft of all attributes . It is said that he who sees > the one in the world of many the one changeles in the things that > change . but how to realize this . and how to get rid of the ego. that > i am the doer. and how to realize God in everything as vivekananda has > said. > > Please tell how to attain self realization and equanimity of mind. > > Regards > > samant saurabh > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Namaste Samantji Your questions, so well worded indicate a clarity which in itself indicate that you are under the influence of grace. Without knowing the stage of evolution and current state of vasana pressures you experience, my thoughts can at best be in certain general directions. My first thought always is that one should devote more and more time to Sat-sangha ( to be in the company of truth)- some of the vehicles being prayers, company of spiritual leaders, reading the life of saints etc. Secondly, in kali-yuga, it is not always possible to directly 'realize in meditation the supreme lord bereft of attributes'- some may disagree. Hence bhakti or cultivation of devotion is recommended. An excerpt of Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's quote- within braces- from the link below may help clarify my thinking further: http://www.angelfire.com/ma/ramakrishna/realization.html ["In the kaliyuga, man, being totally dependent on food for life, cannot altogether shake off the idea that he is the body. In this state of mind it is not proper for him to say: 'I am He'. When a man does all sorts of worldly things, he should not say, 'I am Brahman'. Those who cannot give up attachment to worldly things, and who find no means to shake off the feeling of 'I', should rather cherish the idea, 'I am God's servant; I am His devotee.' One can also realize God by following the path of devotion." "Through selfless work, love of God grows in the heart. Then, through His grace, one realizes Him in course of time. God can be seen. One can talk to Him as I am talking to you. "] You will hear many thoughts from many of us and I am sure grace will guide you from within to the answers you seek Many namaskarams to all Sridhar advaitin, saurabh ananda <saurabh_ananda> wrote: > > Dear friends > > I am samant saurabh. Please tell me how to realize in meditation the supreme Lord bereft of all attributes . snip > Regards > > samant saurabh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Namaste Samant Saurabh, which meditation technique do you use?.... it's better to have some guidance and introduction to meditation by a teacher....or realised person.... be focused by all your love for the Lord during meditation.....the Lord in you will give you the right "understanding" of things.... the path takes some time....be patient....and know that there is nothing ever you can miss in life....except yourSelf.... ....that there is nothing but yourSelf....wherever you are.... depending in your inner love....the ego will disappear....and slowly you become less and less attached to what you do....and slowly the awareness of "not being the doer" is coming.... ....only few words.... would be nice if you come in touch with a realised person.... wish a good path.... Regards and love Marc advaitin, saurabh ananda <saurabh_ananda> wrote: > > Dear friends > > I am samant saurabh. Please tell me how to realize in meditation the supreme Lord bereft of all attributes . It is said that he who sees the one in the world of many the one changeles in the things that change . but how to realize this . and how to get rid of the ego. that i am the doer. and how to realize God in everything as vivekananda has said. > > Please tell how to attain self realization and equanimity of mind. > > Regards > > samant saurabh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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