Guest guest Posted December 25, 2004 Report Share Posted December 25, 2004 tatasthaa: Who is the realised one? Can another person understand the realised one? How can one who is not realised... could understand the one who is realised? What are the differences? How would he behave? bindu: ah! No one can understand him, they can only have faith in god 1. who is the realised one? He is unknowable..... unspeakable, he knows himself. He has become himself. ashoka: as without realization no one know who is the true one bindu: Yes, but wait.. 2. can another person understand the realised one? ashoka: No, only by certain signs. bindu: No, however a person can have faith in god.... it is not possible to determine if a person is realised by logic or by any comparative. Why? Because when we go to a realized persons presence, we disappear..... we forget who we are does not see us, our ego gets dissolved in him tatasthaa: hmm bindu: Yet when we leave him we will say .. .gee there is something different about that person... but i cannot tell what it is. ashoka: Bindu there are signs bindu: Those will be applicable ashoka only in the context of a realized one who is not an Avadhuta an Avadhuta may be one moment mad, another he may be god. At another time he may be a child, another the guru, you will never know him ashoka: exactly, but still there is this pull, this flute that pulls us to him, tatasthaa: When u are fitatasthaaed explaining ji please.. let us know how is love and realisation linkeda bindu: Yes, tatasthaa "how are love and realisation linked?" Love and consciousness are the same thing; As i have said earlier, to the degree that you love god, so will be your awareness, so love is the catalyst of realization tatasthaa: oh ashoka: even that belongs to HIM, so who can love? bindu: Yes, the Bhakti will merge into parabhakti and become one with love; then he will know he himself is the lord himself; he who is not a bhakti will not merge with the lord. tatasthaa: In order to love lord.. do we need to separate our selves? bindu: No, we should know that the love in us is his consciousness. tatasthaa: Once we feel one with lord.. how does this love takes place? bindu: listen carefully. LOVE is the mirror of consciousness itself; love is that which lights up the knowledge "that i am conscious without the existence of the cosmos" ... (in fact it is the transcendental lord himself). However When we humans think of love we tend to think of loving something, but if we love love itself, we will soon recognize that the lord seeks himself (Radhe\Love) as the love in us.... so when we deliberately love Radhe Maa as Love. tatasthaa: But ji.. Krishna says in chapter 18 verse 40 in Gita: "There is no being, either on earth or among the celestial controllers in heaven, who can remain free from these three modes of Material Nature." (18.40)" bindu: That is right, In the realization, the realized one realizes he is not that man sitting there, since it it the self who realizes himself as the self, it is not the yogi who realizes himself at all Loving love, There is a gradual snowballing effect of awareness\light, as the love compounds as we love it. One might think one is being a doer by loving, but the only valid thing the Will can do that is not egotistical is to love LOVE (to Love Radhe). We misuse the Will by not loving deliberately, we are self-willed and egotistical if we do not love. To love deliberately is to be compassionate. You see love is the only thing that exists that is its own reflection, this is why it compounds as we love love. Parabhakti consists in this Loving love herself as Radhe Ma, the Will in us is of course Siva tatasthaa: Yes ji, but when it comes to realization.. can we realise the love fully? as Krishna states There is no being existing, either here or among the demigods in the higher planetary systems, which is freed from the three modes of material nature. bindu: What you must realize devi is that the realized one has realized he does not exist hence he is free from those modes. However his body may be subject to them, but he is not his body he understands his body came as mere clothing on the concept of i-ness. Having given up i-ness, his body is an empty shell he no longer dwells in it. Nor does he dwell as the three modes themselves, he knows they too are clothing on the concept of i-ness, hiding non-existence within. Hence Sri Dattatreya says in his wonderful Avadhuta Gita: Chapter Four, Verses two and three... 2. The absolute is not liberated from bondage and obstruction. The Absolute is not purified, cleansed and released. The Absolute is not liberated by union or separation. I am indeed the free One, like the sky. 3. I have developed no false notion that all this reality come into existence or that all this unreality comes into existence. I am free from disease - my form has been extinguished. So the connection between realization and love is the Will to LOVE, this is true. tatasthaa: but when it come to realization.. can we realise the love fully? ashoka: Ichha Shakti Kriya Shakti Gnana Shakti is Uma Shakti of Shiva bindu: the very thought that "WE" might be able to realize that love is preposterous ... as it is his not ours...... but remember the Will is Siva.... so then to deliberately Will to Love Love.. WILL take us to realization, this is Parabhakti. Yes Ashoka has it but note also: Chapter Four, Verse One of Avadhuta Gita... 1. There is neither invitation nor casting off; How can there be flowers, leaves, meditations and recitation of sacred texts, and how can there be worship of Siva - which is identity in non-difference? This means that to worship the Icchaa Sakti or any Sakti is to worship identity in non-difference. This is why i say: Who has Karma ? No-one it is his.... Who has Kriya? No-one it is his.... Who has jnana No-one it is his.... Thus since the realized one knows he does not exist he has no karma, he is free. This is realization. Since there is but one self how can i have any karma? Either it is his or it does not exist, either way it is not mine. tatasthaa: ji.. you are saying Will is lord Siva.. Love is Radha ma.. so do u need will power to love? I thought love is love.. it comes automatically. I didn't know.. that we need Will to love.. bindu: Will IS Siva, So the only correct use of WILL is to love Radhe, or love Love. Then it is not the ego doing this but Siva. tatasthaa: What is will? tell me about will. What is the correct use of will? bindu: If we talk about WILL existing as a latent or potential power in the Absolute ... we can see that Will is the omnipotent power of Lord Siva; we can say that Will is the omnipotent power of lord Siva. But Siva without his Sakti is powerless. The Will is his Sakti. It is his existence itself. Will is pure Sakti..... Sakti that has not yet moved or been employed; so it cannot be seen or known. It can only be recognized in itself by the Lord in Himself. Yet there exists a very deep secret about how the lord acts to create it consists in the fact that He does not act at all. The sheer power of His Will held in check.... causes the Manifestation of the Sakti, which vibrates as the primordial unstruck Pranavam; then the moola-maya appear "AS" that manifestation of His potency (AS A RESULT OF HIS NOT MOVING HIS WILL) this potency is the potential-to-be which appears as the diversity known as His Own Consciousness (we call it TIME). It is Maya, Samsara, knowledge and ignorance. Then there comes the whole of the Cosmic display. But to return to the WILL in Himself; Lord Siva Shines forth as all the Cosmos simply by existing, never by actually acting. Think of it like the power in a massive hydro-electric dam - pent up but unreleased, this is due to his tapas generated by remaining still in Himself. The Yogi taps this by developing Bhakti to such a degree that he always keeps his inner mind focused in the Will of Lord Siva. So as you can see this is a very complex question, this is the very deepest understanding of the Sakti. to realize how the lord actually creates the universe simply by the fact of His existing. tatasthaa: yes ji, it is quite hard to understand. bindu: It is like the magnetism in a magnet that is not yet placed near steel. bindu: Now tatasthaa, i recommend that you read these files in the following order 1. How to Become Nothing 2. How to Become NOT After Having Become 3. I Am Not What YOU Think I Am They will help immensely with learning how to remain in the Self; After all, this is what the lord is doing; so to realize him we must learn it. In fact to come out of it is to push out the ego - to become - to exist - to be to arrogate ... i.e to separate from Him; so i recommend remaining in Him ashoka: Bindu why then they teach not to ask for 4 types of Mukti 1. Sayujya - To be like HIM 2. Samipya - To be near HIM 3. Salokya - To be in His Kingdom 4. Sarupya - to have his form Why do they teach that bindu: Because who will have them Ashoka? Who will be them? Jiva. ashoka: I understand what u r saying. bindu: Who will be in his kingdom? Jiva certainly wont get there ashoka: I understand that. bindu: Realization will not happen to jiva, The Lord REALIZES Himself, we do not. ashoka: But the play of Golokha, is what then. Who plays with whom? bindu: In the story about Lakshmi telling Vishnu stories which make him dream up the world ashoka: a devotee, just wishes to serve eternally, what do u think of that humility and desire? bindu: Does the lord not serve himself in the form of the devotee? Does The Lord not desire only Himself? ashoka: Everything is the Lord, I know all of that, why then u say, wishing to come out TO BE is ego, whose Ego? bindu: we are talking from the point of view if Siva Maa, not Krishna; but the trouble comes when the jiva thinks he is the doer, the devotee. or the one performing the seva, When in fact it is The Lord worshipping Himself in all cases. bindu: The Transcendental lord Krishna seeks Himself so He splits Himself up into many bits ... His Transcendental Self remains in His abode if you like to say that. ashoka: yes yes bindu: Love comes then. This splitting happens as a result of his sheer existence.... His WILL IS LOVE itself ... does He not seek His own love? this empowers His transcendental Will... Love blasts out of Him as Light then becomes denser as it manifests more and more as the Cosmos, from the subtlest to the most gross light\love\consciousness. But He is the Transcendnetal conscious SELF who is conscious of His OWN consciousness which exists as the ParamAtma. There seems to be jiva but jiva is His reflection in each particle of His OWN being, thus Jiva is not him but his reflection only... and just as the mirrored image in your bathroom mirror is not you, nor is the reflection in the consciousness ort in you him himself,; it is merely his reflection. This is why we say Neti Neti.. not this nor this.. ashoka: He wishes to enjoy HIMSELF bindu: Enjoy is the wrong word Ashoka as to enjoy implies need ... The Lord needs nothing. ashoka: He does not. bindu: He exists AS love his enjoyment IS LOVE; His consciousness is Love, His very being is Love. Thus he says only his devotees .... only his bhaktas will attain him, he also says that to his bhaktis will accrue all yogas ashoka: Rasa Raja, Kanha. wants to be Meera, wants to be Radha bindu: He does not want anything Ashoka, HE "IS " everything! He has no desires. He simply exists as bliss itself Ashoka: i know bindu, i just have to experience it will come with grace and practice; what to do? bindu: Ashoka, you say dear: "i just have to experience" Let go of that I. say to Him in your heart Oh Lord it is not i who can experience you, it is you yourself that does this. say Oh Lord this whole world out here is your Lila and has no self nature as you alone are The Self. Do not become even an experiencer, neither a thinker, nor knower, nor a possessor or owner. Do not think that you have anything in the first place to renounce, as there is no renunciate either, Since The Lord is all Om Namah Sivaya ashoka: Mere Shyaamal Krishna Kanhai Tu Ye Kaisi Preet Lagaayi Praano Mein Bansi Bajaai Saason Mein Chhip Kar Aayi Naina Ye Dhoonde Hardam Dil Gaaye Tere Sargam Man Tarse Roop Anoopam Aayo Mere Paas Priyatam Bin Tere Jeevan Soona Banaao Mujhe Tu Apnaa Laaj Meri Ye Rakhanaa Radhe Ko Sanga Laana Brindavan Banjaye Jeevan Dikhlaye Tujhe Man Darapan Karoon Mein Ansoo Ke Arapan Tere Paaon Mein Atma Samarpan bindu: i say again: Since there is only Him, how can i have any karma ... or any vasanas, how can i have any jnana or Kriya? All is His and His only..... How can i have any jnana or Kriya? How can i have any Self-nature? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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