Adhyaropa-Apavada - A Unique Teaching Method

[Guest guest]

Namaste, Sri Sunderji, Sri Bhaskerji and all,

 

Thank you very much for your clarification on “Adhyasa” and ”Adhyaropa”.

 

May I add my own (2 cents), more with the idea of learning more on the

fundamentals of Advaita Vedanta.

 

Adhyasa is not Knowledge. Adhyasa leads to “mithya-gnanam” and because of this

“mithya-gnanam” one makes wrong conclusions about himself and the world. It is

mithya-gnanam because such knowledge changes (budhi vyabhicharati) when one

enquires into it.

 

Adhyasa takes place, just like cooking takes place, when the various factors

required for adhyasa to take place are present. This is a natural law.

 

Adhyaropa and Apavada is the methodology or prakriya used in Vedanta for one to

understand that Adhyasa exists and it is like a natural law, but it leads to

mithya gnana and fools people. The prakriya is used only to correct the

mithya-gnana, (and not to remove Adhyasa) because the appearance of one thing as

another thing, or one thing appears as having the qualities of another thing and

vice-versa, can continue. The prakriya has nothing to do with the objects, as

all it does is to correct one’s Budhi, i.e. intellect, so that one does no more

get fooled by the mithya-gnana resulting from Adhyasa.

 

Samsara, rather Samsara Budhi, takes place only because of Adhyasa i.e. Atmani

Anatma Budhi and Anatmani Atma Budhi,(intellectual appreciation of what is real

as unreal and what is unreal as real). The Adhyaropa-Apavada Prakriya removes

this wrong intellectual appreciation, and corrects it with Atmani Atmabudhi and

Anatmani Anatmabudhi (intellectual appreciation of what is real as real and what

is unreal as unreal).

 

Warm Regards

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

praNAm Sri Mani prabhuji

Hare Krishna

 

If you could permit me, I'd like to share my understanding :

 

Mani prabhuji:

 

Adhyasa takes place, just like cooking takes place, when the various

factors required for adhyasa to take place are present. This is a natural

law.

 

bhaskar :

 

Not so prabhuji, shankara declares that this avidyA/adhyAsa is anAdi..I

dont think it is going to happen in a particular place & at a particular

point of time..coz. the very notion of time & space are in the sphere of

avidyA...that is the reason why shankara says in gIta bhAshya *dont ask the

reason & origin for avidyA* since why, how & when presupposes the

requirement of dEsha & kAla which are inturn the product of avidyA.

 

Mani prabhuji :

 

Adhyaropa and Apavada is the methodology or prakriya used in Vedanta for

one to understand that Adhyasa exists and it is like a natural law, but it

leads to mithya gnana and fools people.

 

bhaskar :

 

yes, it is through adhyAsa we are superimposing anAtma vastu on Atman.

adhyArOpa is because of ajnAna that we are suffering naturally (naisargika)

through upAdhi parichinna jnAna.

 

Mani prabhuji:

 

The prakriya is used only to correct the mithya-gnana, (and not to remove

Adhyasa) because the appearance of one thing as another thing, or one thing

appears as having the qualities of another thing and vice-versa, can

continue.

 

bhaskar :

 

but prabhuji after the dawn of *real* knowledge of rope, the gUna & dharma

of adhyArOpita *snake* such as its hissing, its hood & its poisonous fangs

cannot continue to appear is it not?? the prAtibhAsika satyatva of *snake*

gives way to vyavahArika satya of rope in this empirical analogy once the

true knowledge of *rope* is occured.

 

Mani prabhuji:

 

The prakriya has nothing to do with the objects, as all it does is to

correct one's Budhi, i.e. intellect, so that one does no more get fooled by

the mithya-gnana resulting from Adhyasa.

 

bhaskar :

 

How so?? the objective reality of *snake* goes spontaneously (jnAna sama

kAle) alongwith mityAjnAna of rope...The knowledge of *real* rope reveals

the fact that the snake was never ever there in rope.dont you think it has

*something* to do with the apparent objective appearance prabhuji??

...samyag jnAna of the jnAni is such that he intuitively realises that world

as such never ever was there in him & it is only in avasthA-s with

different time & space frame. But how can a jnAni could still see the

world like others even after realisation is the point in question now...

Shankara explains this in sUtra bhAshya how a jnAni could do vyavahAra

through bhAdita jnAna. More of this later prabhuji.

 

Mani prabhuji:

 

Samsara, rather Samsara Budhi, takes place only because of Adhyasa i.e.

Atmani Anatma Budhi and Anatmani Atma Budhi,(intellectual appreciation of

what is real as unreal and what is unreal as real). The Adhyaropa-Apavada

Prakriya removes this wrong intellectual appreciation, and corrects it with

Atmani Atmabudhi and Anatmani Anatmabudhi (intellectual appreciation of

what is real as real and what is unreal as unreal).

 

bhaskar :

 

AND he also realises that these two vruttis i.e. Atmani Atmabudhi &

anAtmani anAtmabuddhi are happening in his manOmaya kOsha & ultimately HE

is sAkshi to these jnAna & ajnAna vrutti-s & his true svarUpa is kEvala

nirguNa & nirvikalpa.

 

praNAms onceagain

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "R.S.MANI" <r_s_mani> wrote:

>

> Samsara, rather Samsara Budhi, takes place only because of Adhyasa

i.e. Atmani Anatma Budhi and Anatmani Atma Budhi,(intellectual

appreciation of what is real as unreal and what is unreal as real).

The Adhyaropa-Apavada Prakriya removes this wrong intellectual

appreciation, and corrects it with Atmani Atmabudhi and Anatmani

Anatmabudhi (intellectual appreciation of what is real as real and

what is unreal as unreal).

 

Namaste Mani-ji,

 

 

Namaste Mani-ji,

 

I don't know if my contribution will match your 2 cents, but for

whatever it is worth here it is:

 

Any conclusions we draw must accord with the Mahavakyas of the Upanishads.

 

The words adhyasa and adhyaropa are intellectual concepts to `explain'

the relationshipof a phenomenal and a noumenal world. They have no

`reality' independent of the noumenon; adhyasa is another term for

avidya, ignorance.

 

The intellectual appreciation stops or ends at the `satvika jnana'

step (Gita 18:20); it cannot extend itself beyond that to the totality

of Sat-Chi-Ananda.

 

We discussants are like bands of pilgrims going round the foot of a

mountain, in its

shadow as it were, trying to make sense of what the one who has

reached the top of the

mountain is trying to tell us from that vantage point. The latter does

not see any shadow,and we insist on contradicting that! The mountain

casting the shadow is our own `vasanas', and only on walking the path

of Dharma can the mountain be scaled.

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Beautifully stated! Hats off, Sunderji. I now know why you don't

talk much like me.

 

We make the one at the top speak 'words', listen and argue remaining

in the shadow not keeping a foot forward to scale the mountain! We

go round and round. Merry go round the mulberry mount!

 

Madathil Nair

__________________

 

advaitin, "Sunder Hattangadi" <sunderh>

wrote:

> .........

> We discussants are like bands of pilgrims going round the foot of

a

> mountain, in its

> shadow as it were, trying to make sense of what the one who has

> reached the top of the

> mountain is trying to tell us from that vantage point. The latter

does

> not see any shadow,and we insist on contradicting that! The

mountain

> casting the shadow is our own `vasanas', and only on walking the

path

> of Dharma can the mountain be scaled.

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sunder,

 

you wrote

"We discussants are like bands of pilgrims going round the foot of a

> mountain, in its

> shadow as it were, trying to make sense of what the one who has

> reached the top of the

> mountain is trying to tell us from that vantage point. The latter

does

> not see any shadow,and we insist on contradicting that! The mountain

> casting the shadow is our own `vasanas', and only on walking the

path

> of Dharma can the mountain be scaled."

 

 

thank you to switch on the light....

 

the more "high" one want to climb up....the more shadow could be on

the path appearing...

 

if one give up the expectations....with deep inner love to the

Self.....maybe one day.....it's possible to "wake up".....sitting on

a top of the mountain.....

 

....."waiting" this moment....we should prepare the birth of this

mountain....by loosing the wish...to "climb" anywhere

 

 

Regards and love

 

Marc

 

 

advaitin, "Sunder Hattangadi" <sunderh>

wrote:

>

> advaitin, "R.S.MANI" <r_s_mani> wrote:

> >

> > Samsara, rather Samsara Budhi, takes place only because of Adhyasa

> i.e. Atmani Anatma Budhi and Anatmani Atma Budhi,(intellectual

> appreciation of what is real as unreal and what is unreal as real).

> The Adhyaropa-Apavada Prakriya removes this wrong intellectual

> appreciation, and corrects it with Atmani Atmabudhi and Anatmani

> Anatmabudhi (intellectual appreciation of what is real as real and

> what is unreal as unreal).

>

> Namaste Mani-ji,

>

>

> Namaste Mani-ji,

>

> I don't know if my contribution will match your 2 cents, but for

> whatever it is worth here it is:

>

> Any conclusions we draw must accord with the Mahavakyas of the

Upanishads.

>

> The words adhyasa and adhyaropa are intellectual concepts to

`explain'

> the relationshipof a phenomenal and a noumenal world. They have no

> `reality' independent of the noumenon; adhyasa is another term for

> avidya, ignorance.

>

> The intellectual appreciation stops or ends at the `satvika jnana'

> step (Gita 18:20); it cannot extend itself beyond that to the

totality

> of Sat-Chi-Ananda.

>

> We discussants are like bands of pilgrims going round the foot of a

> mountain, in its

> shadow as it were, trying to make sense of what the one who has

> reached the top of the

> mountain is trying to tell us from that vantage point. The latter

does

> not see any shadow,and we insist on contradicting that! The mountain

> casting the shadow is our own `vasanas', and only on walking the

path

> of Dharma can the mountain be scaled.

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunder

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "dennis_travis33"

<dennis_travis33> wrote:

>

>

> the more "high" one want to climb up....the more shadow could be on

> the path appearing...

>

> if one give up the expectations....with deep inner love to the

> Self.....maybe one day.....it's possible to "wake up".....sitting on

> a top of the mountain.....

>

> ...."waiting" this moment....we should prepare the birth of this

> mountain....by loosing the wish...to "climb" anywhere

>

 

Namaste Dennis,

 

To extend the metaphor, 'climbing higher' and 'losing the

wish to climb' can mean increasing the 'sAttvik' element only.

Anything beyond is like "the salt-doll trying to report on the depth

of the ocean"! [as Sri Ramakrishna said].

 

Regards,

 

Sunder