Guest guest Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 I wonder, if ultimately, what we are attracted to or repulsed by (even ideas or spiritual teachings, or our interpretation of those teachings, etc.), might be reminding us indirectly that we need to in some way become more accessible to the pull of the Absolute, that magnetic attraction to our own Center. Only that reminder, that nudge, that thought is enough. Even at a feeling level, not always amenable to clear expression, it is enough. Perhaps that is a preface for allowing that powerful force of surrender to the Divine to come into play. All attempts at understanding are after all with the mind. How far can one go with that? Far enough, I suppose. But if you go far enough, you will come to an edge and if by Grace you are pulled into the Heart, that is always calling, you (along with your attempts to understand) will surely disappear. The terror of total and complete loss of identity ends in the Knowing that, Self It Self is the Totality and the Identity, and That is the Clarity and the Bliss without any support what so ever, and utterly, eternally complete. That, the ancient sages and scriptures tell us is the Heart, which requires no support, which has no cause, but which supports all the play of consciousness as the background. Indeed, all consciousness arises from it, as the Heart It Self is That. Here Reality is Known and Recognized (through It Self and by It Self) as always shining in Its Natural Form by Its own Light. This is the Silence which is immovable, and in perpetual communion with It Self. It is the Center and the Circumference. Call it God, call it Self, call it No Self, call it Emptiness, or call it the Void, call it Beyond God and Self and No Self, or call it something else, or even coin a new term perhaps to suit the times. What difference can it make at that point? To Know It, is to Be It. The mind cannot contain it or completely obscure it, as the mind sprouts up from only That. The essential and diffused "I" nature of the mind, when looked for, disappears and the Heart as Awareness become apparent. Sages like Ramana say that, That Is the Truth, that You are the Truth. Know it with the finality of your Being. Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Namaste Harshaji: I am puzzled by the sudden reappearance of your 1999 Post. Can you please explain the relevance of this post in the middle of an ongoing discussion topic? Ideally, I would prefer you to provide an appropriate thread title along with a brief statement about the context of the relevance of this post. Though I fully agree with what Bhagawan Ramana says but it is quite important that we all know the context of this statement. If we fail to provide appropriate context, the statment may not help the seeker with appropriate guidance. The real identity of a person is only known to a person with the purest mind. Given this fact, the very first step for any seeker is to purify his/her mind (heart). This sadhana of mind purification requires everyone to learn and adopt the methods that can purify the mind. The purpose of vedantic teachings and learning is quite relevant for mind purification and Bhagawan Ramana has spoken about this in many of his works. Someone onece asked the Maharishi, can you show me God? Maharishi smiled and replied, "If I show you the God, can you see Him?" This is quite a powerful statement from Bhagawan and his subtle message is sound and clear. God can only be seen by those with the 'spiritual eyes' and similarly Truth can only be visible for those who are realized! Warmest regards, Ram Chandran advaitin, Harsha wrote: > I wonder, if ultimately, what we are attracted to or repulsed by (even > ideas or spiritual teachings, or our interpretation of those teachings, > etc.), might be reminding us indirectly that we need to in some way become > more accessible to the pull of the Absolute, that magnetic attraction to our > own Center. Only that reminder, that nudge, that thought is enough. ..... > .........Sages > like Ramana say that, That Is the Truth, that You are the Truth. Know it > with the finality of your Being. > > Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Dearest Sri Ramji: I happened to come across the 1999 post today as I was doing some administrative work with the HS . I was so impressed by the profoundity of it that I thought it should be shared right away again with my esteemed colleagues. Love to all Harsha Ram Chandran wrote: > > Namaste Harshaji: > > I am puzzled by the sudden reappearance of your 1999 Post. Can you > please explain the relevance of this post in the middle of an ongoing > discussion topic? Ideally, I would prefer you to provide an > appropriate thread title along with a brief statement about the > context of the relevance of this post. Though I fully agree with > what Bhagawan Ramana says but it is quite important that we all know > the context of this statement. If we fail to provide appropriate > context, the statment may not help the seeker with appropriate > guidance. > > The real identity of a person is only known to a person with the > purest mind. Given this fact, the very first step for any seeker is > to purify his/her mind (heart). This sadhana of mind purification > requires everyone to learn and adopt the methods that can purify the > mind. The purpose of vedantic teachings and learning is quite > relevant for mind purification and Bhagawan Ramana has spoken about > this in many of his works. Someone onece asked the Maharishi, can you > show me God? Maharishi smiled and replied, "If I show you the God, > can you see Him?" This is quite a powerful statement from Bhagawan > and his subtle message is sound and clear. God can only be seen by > those with the 'spiritual eyes' and similarly Truth can only be > visible for those who are realized! > > Warmest regards, > > Ram Chandran > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <RamChandran@a...> wrote: > > mind. The purpose of vedantic teachings and learning is quite > > relevant for mind purification and Bhagawan Ramana has spoken about > > this in many of his works. Someone onece asked the Maharishi, can you > > show me God? Maharishi smiled and replied, "If I show you the God, > > can you see Him?" This is quite a powerful statement from Bhagawan > > and his subtle message is sound and clear. God can only be seen by > > those with the 'spiritual eyes' and similarly Truth can only be > > visible for those who are realized! > > > > Warmest regards, > > > > Ram Chandran Namaste, Yes this is one of my old themes. Purification through Sadhana must take place for realisation to occur. ( this is my point of departure with the verbal non dualists), Ramana says 'See the God', for he knows that when one has a purified vijnanamayakosa one has Moksha, and in essence becomes 'God'. God can only be seen with spiritual eyes as long as one is embodied. On bodiless Mukti 'God' disappears in favour of Nirguna............ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 " Purification through Sadhana must take place for realisation to occur. ( this is my point of departure with the verbal non dualists)..." Importance of chitta-shuddhi is accepted by "verbal non-dualists" as well. Only difference is that Sadhana is not considered a direct means of realization. Nonetheless, sadhana is considered necessary to prepare the mind to the level where it can immediately grasp the import of vedanta-vakyas just by shravanam. Regards. ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Would you Help a Child in need? It is easier than you think. Click Here to meet a Child you can help. http://us.click./O2aXmA/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/XUWolB/TM --~-> Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To Post a message send an email to : advaitin Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages <*> advaitin/ <*> advaitin <*> Your _______________ 65,000 jobs listings. http://www.naukri.com/tieups/tieups.php?othersrcp=534 Post your CV on Naukri.com today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Namaste Sri Srivastava-ji <sksrivastava68@h...> wrote: > > > " Purification through Sadhana must take place for realisation to occur. ( > this is my point of departure > with the verbal non dualists)..." > > Importance of chitta-shuddhi is accepted by "verbal non-dualists" as well. > Only difference is that Sadhana is not considered a direct means of > realization. Nonetheless, sadhana is considered necessary to prepare the > mind to the level where it can immediately grasp the import of > vedanta-vakyas just by shravanam. Regards. > This may be a silly question but who are "verbal non dualists"? Those who study Advaita in a academic sort of way? >> > Only difference is that Sadhana is not considered a direct means of > realization. >> Doesn't Bhagavan say the aspiring Yogi achieves perfection only through Sadhana? prayatnaadyatamaanastu yogii sa.nshuddhakilbishhaH . anekajanmasa.nsiddhastato yaati paraaM gatim.h .. 6\-45.. Shankar comments on this: aneka-janma-samsiddhah, attaining perfection through many births- gathering together tendencies little by little in many births, and attaining perfection through that totality of impressions acquired in many births; My understanding of Sadhana in the context of the 6th chapter is Nidhidhyasana (=Dhyana+Yoga) In fact Bhagavan repeats the main idea of the 6th chapter again in the 18th chapter: viviktasevii laghvaashii yatavaakkaayamaanasaH . dhyaanayogaparo nitya.n vairaagya.n samupaashritaH .. 18\-52.. dhyana-yoga-parah nityam, one to whom meditation and concentration are ever the highest (duty)-meditation is thinking of the real nature of the Self, and concentration is making the mind one-pointed with regard to the Self itself; one to whom these meditation and concentration are the highest (duty) is dhyana-yoga-parah-. Nityam, (ever) is used to indicate the absence of other duties like repetition of mantra regards Sundar Rajan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 advaitin, "Sundar Rajan" <avsundarrajan> wrote: > >> > > Doesn't Bhagavan say the aspiring Yogi achieves perfection only > through Sadhana? > Namaste, It was myself who made the original quote about sadhana, in this thread. With regard to verbal non dualists or 'vndists', they are those to whom sadhana is only an intellectual exercise. IMO Sadhana of some kind is necessary to cleanse the vijnanamayakosa so it may reflect the truth in itself. This requires some physical mental and bodily applications. Vegetarianism, meditation some Japa or the like etc etc. Even the Who am I? of Ramana presupposes a certain mental maturity to make the enquiry. The enquiry of realising that Iswara is oneself in fact.........ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 "This may be a silly question but who are "verbal non dualists"? Those who study Advaita in a academic sort of way? I also do not know if there is any "verbal non-dualist" group. I simply borrowed it from the previous post. That said, Vivarana speaks of nidhidhyaasana as a helpful means that is secondary to the actual pramana for knowledge which is shravana. It is shravana that introduces the jiva to knowledge and destroys ignorance. Shravana includes analysis of the shastra to determine the tatparya of the Vedas/Upanishads. Manana and nidhidhyaasana are considered the angas or subsidiary aids for shravana-- not on equal footing with it. I took verbal non dualists to mean this group. Regards. ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~--> Would you Help a Child in need? It is easier than you think. Click Here to meet a Child you can help. http://us.click./O2aXmA/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/XUWolB/TM --~-> Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To Post a message send an email to : advaitin Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages <*> advaitin/ <*> advaitin <*> Your _______________ Trailblazer Narain Karthikeyan. Know more about him ‘n his life. http://server1.msn.co.in/sp04/tataracing/ Stay in the loop with Tata Racing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Namaste Sanjay-ji > > "This may be a silly question but who are "verbal non dualists"? > Those who study Advaita in a academic sort of way? > > I also do not know if there is any "verbal non-dualist" group. I simply > borrowed it from the previous post. Ahah! Now it makes sense and thanks for the clarification >That said, Vivarana speaks of > nidhidhyaasana as a helpful means that is secondary to the actual pramana > for knowledge which is shravana. It is shravana that introduces the jiva to > knowledge and destroys ignorance. Shravana includes analysis of the shastra > to determine the tatparya of the Vedas/Upanishads. Manana and nidhidhyaasana > are considered the angas or subsidiary aids for shravana-- not on equal > footing with it. > Very interesting. This is the first time I am hearing about this Rapid, Fast Forward approach to Moksha. So, pardon my ignorance Sir, why would the Upanishads say "srotavyo, mantavyo, nidhidhyastitavyo" if there is only one that is primary and the rest two are secondary. There are so many other 'angas' that are subsidary aids that the Upanishads do not mention. Why mention just these two (Manana and nidhidhyaasana)?. regards Sundar Rajan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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