Dharma Shastra & its applicability

[Guest guest]

Humble praNAms to All prabhuji-s

Hare Krishna

 

I think topics related to smruthi texts have taken place somany times in

the list..Since I dont have the access to internet I am not able to search

the archieves. Hence, asking this question once again...Any help would be

highly appreciated.

 

Whether rules & regulations stipulated in dharma shAstra-s applicable

universally all time without any time restrictions & life style of its

followers?? or these shAstra-s are time bound & need amendments time &

again according to prevailing socio-economic condition & life style of its

followers?? I've a particular question in this regard also...why dharma

shAstra-s say A saNyAsi should not cross sea?? what is the logical

explanation shastra-s can give in this regard?? As we know, well known

sanyAsi-s like vivEkAnanda, Swamy rAmathIrtha, prabhupAda, dayAnaNda

saraswati of Arsha vidyA etc. etc. have crossed sea to do dharma

prachAra...Since they have violated the *niyama* of dharma shAstra can we

say they are not *sanyAsi-s* in strict sense?? Is our dharma shAstra-s

need any amendment according to the life style of present day sanyAsi-s &

guruhastha-s ?? or can we without disturbing the original text, interpret

the niyama-s enshrined in dharma shAstra-s in a different way according to

our convenience?? Kindly let me know what would be the explanation of

strict followers of dharma shAstra-s in these cases of occassional

violation of smruthi texts by the upholders of dharma.

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskarji

pranams,

 

You wrote:

> explanation shastra-s can give in this regard?? As we know, well known

> sanyAsi-s like vivEkAnanda, Swamy rAmathIrtha, prabhupAda, dayAnaNda

> saraswati of Arsha vidyA etc. etc. have crossed sea to do dharma

 

 

Sannyasis crossing the ocean is something happening also in strictly

orthodox circles nowadays. Here are a few examples regarding Sringeri

peetham and mathas affiliated with Sringeri peetham.

 

For instance, Swami Nithyananda Bharati of Sringeri Peetham has been to the

West several times, and I have seen pictures of him among Western devotees

in Holland (Europe) in 2003. Swami Nithyananda is (or was a year ago) the

only resident Swami in Sringeri, apart from H.H. Jagadguru Bharati Tirtha

Swamigal of course. He is a great devotee of H.H. and is very close to H.H.

The activities oversead of Swami Nithyananda have recieved the blessings of

H.H.

 

The junior swami at the Kamakshi-Sharada peetham at Hebbur (near Bangalore)

was actually living in the USA prior to sannyasa. And when the senior swami

at Hebbur asked the Sringeri H.H. Jagadguru for help finding a successor,

then H.H. acutally recommended this young swamiji, in spite of the fact that

he had lived in the West. Moreover, he took sannyasa at Sringeri peetham.

 

Also in the days of H.H. Jagadguru Abhinava Vidyatirtha Swamigal a sannyasi

by the name of Swami Narayanananda Bharati (who was the head of Nelamau math

in Karnataka) visited USA and Russia with the blessings of H.H.

 

The former shankaracharya of Chitrapur math, Swami Parijnanashram, traveled

to the West in the 1970's. On the webpage of Chitrapur math there is a

lecture held by Swami Parijnanashram in Toronto, Canada in august 1979.

 

One of the the editorial consultants of Tattvaloka (Sringeri magazine),

Swami Yogananda Saraswati, is a frenchman by birth and hence a Westerner. He

is residing in his ashram (Kaivalya ashram) near Paris (France) and is

closely affiliated with Sringeri peetham. He have recieved the blessings of

H.H. Jagadguru on several occasions.

 

 

Warmest regards

Stig Lundgren

[Guest guest]

Sannyasis crossing the ocean is something happening also in strictly

orthodox circles nowadays. Here are a few examples regarding Sringeri

peetham and mathas affiliated with Sringeri peetham.

 

praNAm Sri Stig prabhuji

Hare Krishna

 

Thanks for the references....But prabhuji I am more particular about the

injuctions of dharma shAstra with regard to why saNyAsi-s should not cross

the Sea?? what is the logic behind it?? Are the injuctions in dharma

shAstra-s *out dated* & need amendments suitable to present day life style

of saNyAsi-s?? Is this the reason saNyasi-s of traditional circle breaching

the barriers with regard to their life style?? We see dharma shAstra-s

imposing some rules & being a smruthi text we do accept it as one of valid

pramANa-s in prasthAna traya...But as you say even in orthodox traditional

circle, saNyAsi-s who are supposedly upholders of our sanAtana dharma

comfortably violating the teaching of dharma shAstra-s!!! inspite of that

can we say they are the strict & religious followers of vaidika dharma??

or dharma shastra-s are flexible enough to interpret differently at

different point of time according to our convenience?? that is what the

main question I have in my mind.

 

What is the precise quote from our dharma shAstra-s with regard to

saNyAsi's crossing of sea?? whether there is any explanation provided

there for this injuction?? if yes, is this explanation holds water

universally forever without any time bound restrictions or else whether it

needs some amendments to suite the present day requirement of saNyAsi-s &

householders...

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

[Guest guest]

Namaste Stig-ji,

> One of the the editorial consultants of Tattvaloka (Sringeri

magazine),

> Swami Yogananda Saraswati, is a frenchman by birth and hence a

Westerner. He

> is residing in his ashram (Kaivalya ashram) near Paris (France)

and is

> closely affiliated with Sringeri peetham. He have recieved the

blessings of

> H.H. Jagadguru on several occasions.

>

These are very interesting facts, Stig-ji. I didn't know about the

links between Kaivalya Ashram and Tattvaloka.

>>

Sannyasis crossing the ocean is something happening also in strictly

orthodox circles nowadays. Here are a few examples regarding Sringeri

peetham and mathas affiliated with Sringeri peetham.

>>

Just a quick clarification to Stig-ji's post above:

While the heads of some mathas assoiciated with Sringeri peetham

might have travelled abroad (as you quoted in the example Swami

Narayanananda Bharati Nelamau math), none of the Acharyas of

Sringeri Peetham to the best of my knowledge have ever crossed the

sea.

 

Coming back to the questions raised by Sri Bhaskar-ji, hopefully we

will get a reply in this eGroup.

 

Another suggestion (only a suggestion) would be to pose the question

and obtain the clarifications directly from the Sringeri Shankara

Mutt. After all, Shankara established Sringeri (and the other

Sankara mutts) for the preservation and propagation of Dharma, is it

not?.

 

As Chris Parish (What is Enlightenment magazine) writes "The

Shankaracharya of Sringeri Holds a position in Hindu religious

society often compared to that of the pope in Catholicism". And goes

on to say "If anyone was qualified to defend the tradition's

stance , we thought, surely he would be the one."

 

http://www.wie.org/j16/difference.asp?page=1

 

 

 

regards

Sundar Rajan

[Guest guest]

Dear Sundar Rajanji,

> While the heads of some mathas assoiciated with Sringeri peetham

> might have travelled abroad (as you quoted in the example Swami

> Narayanananda Bharati Nelamau math), none of the Acharyas of

> Sringeri Peetham to the best of my knowledge have ever crossed the

> sea.

 

 

That is correct. However, i forgot to mention that in 1958 the Puri

Jagadguru Bharati Krisna Tirtha travelled to the West, and between January

and May that year he visited USA and Europe. This caused a stir among some

very orthodox people back in India.

 

H.H. Bharati Krishna Tirtha was born near Madras, and in 1909 he became a

disciple of the Sringeri Jagadguru Swami Satchidananda Shivabhinava

Narasimha Saraswati.

 

Warmest regards

Stig Lundgren

[Guest guest]

Namaste, In my humble opinion, the answer to Bhaskarji's question is in Bhagwat

Gita. The issue is not crossing the ocean but the motive and purpose behind it.

 

best regards,

 

Shailendra

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'

 

 

[Guest guest]

advaitin, bhaskar.yr@i... wrote:

 

Dear Bhaskar prabhuji,

 

I follow this list a bit rarely and stumbled across your question this

time. My two cents follow. Needless to say, there is a shade of dvaita

sAmpradAya to it:

> Whether rules & regulations stipulated in dharma shAstra-s

> applicable universally all time without any time restrictions

> & life style of its followers?? or these shAstra-s are time bound &

> need amendments time

 

The Parashara smriti says that different smR^itis apply to different

yugas and proclaims that it itself should be followed for kali yuga.

Many smriti granthas (texts written by later scholars, consolidating

the position of the main smritis and purANas, at times) also quote

yAj~navAlkya which gives a list of kali-varjyAni; a list of things that

should be avoided in kali yuga. This list includes ashvamedha,

obtaining a son from brother of husband (in the case of husband dying

without a child) etc.

 

These suggest that dharma does change with yuga. But can that be

extended to say that dharma changes even within the yuga? I don't think

so. All dharmashAstra proclaim to have derived their stuff from the

shruti (vedo.akhilo dharmamUlaM). The pUrvamImAmsakas say that even if

a ruling on some topic in some kalpasUtra cannot be traced in extant

shrutis, one must infer the existence of some shruti, which was the

source for that kalpasUtra. In other words, according to them, all

vAkyas even within smritis have source in shruti. If that is the case,

how can the vidhiniShedha-s be time-bound?

 

Another point: The purANas often mention the degraded and dharma-vihIna

state in the kali yuga. If dharma were to be adjusted according to the

conveniences of people at a particular time, how there can be any

notion of 'degradation' at all? After all, whatever is done now can be

framed as the dharma of the current times. Where is the question of

'degraded dharma'?

 

Thus, I don't think that dharma changes, atleast not within a yuga.

People might not follow and even transgress but that does not change

the nature of dharma. This, I have heard, was also the conclusion of a

discussion between a mAdhva saint of early 20th century and P.V.Kane,

the author of 'History of Dharmashastras', who felt that dharma should

have time-based amendments.

> why dharma shAstra-s say A saNyAsi should not cross sea?? what is the

> logical explanation shastra-s can give in this regard??

 

b. Our scriptures do forbid crossing the seas. Baudhayana dharmasuutra

mentions this. nirNaya-sindhu, which is used by dvijas of trimatas,

gives other references also. But all of them very specifically forbid

samudrayAna, which is travel by sea. The nirNayasindhu quotes another

text, which very speficially says that a person who travels over the

sea by a ship for more than 2 days (or is it 3 days) should have

punarupanayana. In other words, one cannot be sure if these injunctions

are specific to samudrayAna or travelling to mlechChadesha as well. If

the former, is travel by air permitted? There might be prohibitions in

other texts against being located in mlechChadesha also, but I don't

know.

 

I also don't know the reasons for this prohibition, though I have

heard/read the following guesses: many purANas (kUrma purANa, for one)

extol bhArata as karmabhUmi while the rest of world is bhogabhUmi.

People who are serious about their sAdhana in this life, shouldn't

spend any time in bhogabhUmi, which means your karmas are not quickly

dispensed with; thereby delaying the obtaining of antaHkaraNashuddhi,

which is an important step in sAdhana. From a practical perspective, I

think sAdhana in other countries is difficult. So, even if travel to

other countries is not niShiddha, like eating of onions is, it is

certainly not recommended.

 

And this applies to all, except perhaps a shUdra (manusmriti explicitly

says that a shUdra can reside in other countries), sannyAsis or

grihasthas.

 

Regarding the people that you mention and the concept of 'sannyAsa in

strict sense', well, our respective sAmpradAyAs say different things

about the concept of sannyAsa. So I will leave it here. But in your

sAmpradAya, isn't a strict sannyAsi, who should be judged only on his

jnAna, beyond the restrictions placed by shruti? He might be following

shruti based dharma for the sake of lokasangraha or some such thing,

but violation doesn't fetch him anything, right?

 

Regards,

Krishna

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mail - You care about security. So do we.

 

[Guest guest]

advaitin, Krishna K <nomadeva> wrote:

>

> advaitin, bhaskar.yr@i... wrote:

>

>

> > Whether rules & regulations stipulated in dharma shAstra-s

> > applicable universally all time without any time restrictions

> > & life style of its followers?? or these shAstra-s are time bound &

>

> > need amendments time

>

 

Namaste,

 

Kanchi Paramacharya's book on Hindu Dharma has 8 chapters in

Part 15, devoted to Dharma Shastras, which are well worth reading.

 

http://www.kamakoti.org/newlayout/template/hindudharma.html/15/1/hindu/Dharmasas\

tra

 

One can decide for oneself, and not for others, what would

constitute 'transgression'.

 

Gita has this to say:

 

http://www.kamakoti.org/newlayout/template/hindudharma.html/15/1/hindu/Dharmasas\

tra

 

api chedasi paapebhyaH sarvebhyaH paapakR^ittamaH .

sarva.n GYaanaplavenaiva vR^ijinaM santarishhyasi .. 4\-36..

 

36. Even if you are the most sinful of all sinners, yet you shall

verily cross all sins by the raft of 'Knowledge'.

 

Shankara says in the Bhashya on this verse:

 

dharmo.api iha mumukShoH paapam uchyate.

 

"For one who seeks liberation, even dharma proves to be a sin" (!!!)

 

He also composed this verse for the true devotee:

 

maata cha paarvatii devii

pitaa devo maheshvaraH |

baandhavaH shiva-bhaktaashcha

svadesho bhuvanatrayam.h ||

 

The mother is Parvati and

The divine father is Shiva.

The devotees are the relatives.

The land we are living on is the whole world.

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Humble praNAms to all prabhuji-s who are responded to this thread

Hare Krishna

 

Thanks a lot for taking your precious time & clarifying my doubts on

*dharmAcharaNa* & its universal applicability....Though prabhuji-s varied

slightly in their opinion, the crux of the teaching I got says that main

purpose of dharma shAstra-s is to discipline & regulate our life style to

pursue the path of realisation....the provision of flexibility in dharma

shastra-s should not set a precedence to its followers who wants to

contravene the injuctions on a regular basis.

 

Thanks onceagain for the informative contrtibution on this thread.

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

[Guest guest]

IMO - "Dharma shastras" is like a soap that is capable of cleansing

but the primary condition being desire to perform such act in

presence of water. If one uses warm/hot water for this purpose then

the cleaning may be through at a rapid rate.

 

With best regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

 

advaitin, bhaskar.yr@i... wrote:

>

> Humble praNAms to all prabhuji-s who are responded to this thread

> Hare Krishna

>

> Thanks a lot for taking your precious time & clarifying my doubts on

> *dharmAcharaNa* & its universal applicability....Though prabhuji-s

varied

> slightly in their opinion, the crux of the teaching I got says that

main

> purpose of dharma shAstra-s is to discipline & regulate our life

style to

> pursue the path of realisation....the provision of flexibility in

dharma

> shastra-s should not set a precedence to its followers who wants to

> contravene the injuctions on a regular basis.

>

> Thanks onceagain for the informative contrtibution on this thread.

>

> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

> bhaskar