Guest guest Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 advaitajnana, "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote: Namaste, As I understand it, Consciousness as the Atma has become associated with the aggregates known as the body/mind/ego. I could never for the life of me understand how 'God' could get so confused, with this illusion, and for what purpose. Until the penny dropped, and it became clearer. The idea of 'God' or Saguna is in itself also illusion. So we have illusion identifying with illusion. This can only happen within illusion, and as there is no illusion for Brahman it must never have happened at all..........ONS...Tony. --- End forwarded message --- Note from the list moderator: First, please note that the Sanskrit term, 'mAyA' is not equivalent to the English Translation of 'illusion.' You are right, that the Brahman is free from His own spell of mAyA. However, you and I are very much affected by the spell of mAyA! In total darkenss, everything is unclear, with a small candle light, we can see some but not very clear, but with bright sun light, everything becomes crystal clear! With our spiritual maturity, we do indeed can get the power of sun light to get clear vision! We are the like the blind man who can't see and we need the guidance and that guidance comes from Ishwara, my friend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 > > Note from the list moderator: > First, please note that the Sanskrit term, 'mAyA' is not equivalent to the English Translation of 'illusion.' You are right, that the Brahman is free from His own spell of mAyA. However, you and I are very much affected by the spell of mAyA! In total darkenss, everything is unclear, with a small candle light, we can see some but not very clear, but with bright sun light, everything becomes crystal clear! With our spiritual maturity, we do indeed can get the power of sun light to get clear vision! We are the like the blind man who can't see and we need the guidance and that guidance comes from Ishwara, my friend! Namaste,IMO, The guidance of Ishwara is also illusion, in as much as Iswara is the sum total of all the jivas. Yes Maya is projector not the projectee. Our spiritual vision of seing things with clear vision can only go so far. If one destroys the idea of illusion,lifts the veiling ignorance, one can be in a state of Moksha. In this state one sees all as Brahman, however when the prarabda karma runs its course the body drops and so does all illusion including Maya herself. What is left is what it always was Nirguna Brahman. Ramana's enquiry needs no guidance from an 'Iswara or Personal God', just Who am I?. One will then realise the truth or real I and become a realised body/mind, with a purified vijnanamayakosa. One is aware at this time of both Nirguna and Saguna until the body drops. Guidance is not external to oneself, and I personally don't divide it up into Jiva and Iswara for they are both part of the same projection. Otherwise one gets into the realm of dvaita rather than advaita....This entails a difficult decision to drop attachments to an Ishtadevata or Iswara, and realise this is all the time one's Self...........ONS..........Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Namaste All. About Shree Tony-Ji's post:- advaitin/message/25897 This is wonderful in its conviction about guidance of Ishwara being an illusion and therefore needing no guidance from an 'Iswara or Personal God'. Further, Shree Tony-Ji stated:- >I personally don't divide >it up into Jiva and Iswara for they are both >part of the same projection. >Otherwise one gets into the realm of dvaita >rather than advaita.... >This entails a difficult decision to drop >attachments to an Ishtadevata or Iswara, >and realise this is all the time one's Self Dear Shree TonyJi, When you say, "I personally do not divide....", it is possible that you already have created an attachment against something. This attachment towards detachment itself may be an attachment, Sir, in my humble opinion. Making choices before the unfoldment of mystery creates as much limitation in the infinite unfoldment of the mystery. Chocies make it finite whereas letting its free flow without jiva's own resistance retains its reality. While digging a canal is done using knowledge and methods, unless water flows thru it, it is very dry and this water is like Iswara in one's spiritual pursuit, IMHO. Love & Kind Regards, Raghava ______________________ India Matrimony: Find your partner online. http://.shaadi.com/india-matrimony/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 advaitin, Raghavarao Kaluri <raghavakaluri> wrote: > About Shree Tony-Ji's post:- > advaitin/message/25897 > > While digging a canal is done using > knowledge and methods, unless water flows > thru it, it is very dry and this water is > like Iswara in one's spiritual pursuit, IMHO. Namaste R, > > > > However if one is the water and the knowledge and > methods just > > illusionary thoughts; what then? > > > > If even the water rushing through is also > illusionary; what then? > > > > I see no attachment to detachment or detachment to > attachment in my > > thinking. Why should I wait for the unfolding of > the mystery? What > > is the mystery but 'Who am I?'. > > > > In Self enquiry one goes directly to the point and > realises there > is > > only water. Then one becomes the water(Maharaj > says we are > > Praneaswara), and then on bodiless moksha the > water is found never > > to have existed?...........ONS.Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Namaste Tony,Raghavarao and all, advaitin, "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote: > > > advaitin, Raghavarao Kaluri > <raghavakaluri> wrote: > > > > About Shree Tony-Ji's post:- > > advaitin/message/25897 > > > > While digging a canal is done using > > knowledge and methods, unless water flows > > thru it, it is very dry and this water is > > like Iswara in one's spiritual pursuit, IMHO. > > > Namaste R, > > > > > > However if one is the water and the knowledge and > > methods just > > > illusionary thoughts; what then? > > > > > > If even the water rushing through is also > > illusionary; what then? > > > > > > I see no attachment to detachment or detachment to > > attachment in my > > > thinking. Why should I wait for the unfolding of > > the mystery? What > > > is the mystery but 'Who am I?'. > > > > > > In Self enquiry one goes directly to the point and > > realises there > > is > > > only water. Then one becomes the water(Maharaj > > says we are > > > Praneaswara), and then on bodiless moksha the > > water is found never > > > to have existed?...........ONS.Tony interesting talk going on here... the effort of "digging a canal" need some spiritual success... and is validated by the water.... there will be water because of the canal....and there is canal because of water.... ....the words of Tony sound like the water..... a picture of the water.....which will flow once through the canal... love and peace Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 advaitin, Raghavarao Kaluri <raghavakaluri> wrote: > About Shree Tony-Ji's post:- > advaitin/message/25897 > > While digging a canal is done using > knowledge and methods, unless water flows > thru it, it is very dry and this water is > like Iswara in one's spiritual pursuit, IMHO. Shree Tony Ji replied:- advaitin/message/25906 > > In Self enquiry one goes directly to the point and > realises there > is > > only water. Then one becomes the water(Maharaj > says we are > > Praneaswara), and then on bodiless moksha the > water is found never > > to have existed?...........ONS.Tony ------------- Namaste Shree Tony Ji. On achiveing bodiless moksha, if water is found never to have existed, it is all fine... But, at the current bodily state, water is ever present, if only one cares to look beyond the appearance of illusion. Love & Regards, Raghava ______________________ India Matrimony: Find your partner online. http://.shaadi.com/india-matrimony/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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