Heaven and Hell - earlier - why we need to pray to GOD

[Guest guest]

Sridhar-ji,

 

> The only description of heaven and hell i can recall is from

> mahabharatha. In mahabaratha, towards the end, Yudishtira is taken

> through a place which i believe is described as hell where he finds

> his brothers undergoing a bit of expiating experiences . The

> description of the place as having abominable stench, wailing

soulds

> etc.- sounds a lot like hell!

 

 

Please note the description of various hells that occurs in the

purANas and some other smritis. As an example, the vishNu purANa,

vAmana purANa, bhAgavata purANa etc. describe various hells. Some of

the names of the hells are tamisra, andhatamisra, raurava,

maharaurava, kumbhipaka, kalasutra, asipatravana, sukara-mukha,

andhakupa etc. In each hell, the jIva undergoes specific type of

sufferings which are described in detail.

 

> On BG you refer to ,bhagwan Sri Krishna at one point says that

those

> steeped in Tamas only go down further in evolution- one could

become

> an animal or a stone.I do not recollect any verse that speaks about

> deadly suffering in hell.

 

 

There is no detailed description of hell in the BG. However, my

point was that the concept of eternal damnation and hell occur

(atleast apparently) in the BG. Please go through chapter 16. I dont

remember what Sankara says on this.

 

 

> Otherwise I grew up being told that heaven and hell are in this

life

> only!.

 

 

Your information is not incorrect. After describing various hells in

detail, the vishNu purANa mentions that hell and heaven are various

states of mind. I dont know about the position of other purANas or

smritis here.

[Guest guest]

Hari OM!

 

Dear Sridharji,

 

Please do not americanise Srimad Bhagavad Geetha by calling the

abbreviation, Please write Srimad Bhagavad Geetha, these are the small

small things, we without our knowledge follow.

 

With Love & OM!

 

Krishna Prasad

 

 

On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 09:25:44 -0000, asridhar19 <asridhar19 wrote:

>

>

> Namaste shri Narayana ji , jayramji and all

> narayanaji- Reference to your question, I believe jayaramji has

> conveyed the perspective nicely. Your question has provoked a train of

> thoughts and

> let me present them with an open-mind.

>

> Even outside of Advaita,the concepts of Dharma, karma etc. are common

> across most schools of hinduism. There is only action and reaction

> and cause and effect. Good and bad,virtuous act and sinful acts,

> pleasure and suffering are labels applied by us according to most

> schools.

>

> On BG you refer to ,bhagwan Sri Krishna at one point says that those

> steeped in Tamas only go down further in evolution- one could become

> an animal or a stone.I do not recollect any verse that speaks about

> deadly suffering in hell.

>

> The only description of heaven and hell i can recall is from

> mahabharatha. In mahabaratha, towards the end, Yudishtira is taken

> through a place which i believe is described as hell where he finds

> his brothers undergoing a bit of expiating experiences . The

> description of the place as having abominable stench, wailing soulds

> etc.- sounds a lot like hell!

>

> Otherwise I grew up being told that heaven and hell are in this life

> only!. The condition of a person with extreme illness or that of

> someone who is buffeted severely by misfortunes can be construed as

> experience in hell? These again can be related to cause - effect

> relationship that jayramji talks about.

>

> thanks for some interesting nudging- it has gotten me thinking that

> much more

> Many namaskarams to all

> sridhar

>

> advaitin, "Jayaram Thiagarajan"

> <jayaram_t> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Namaste Sri Narayana,

> >

> >

> > Hinduism appeals more as a way of life than as a religion.

> > Practically, one can lead a very righteous life using the Bhagavath

> > Gita without wearing the outlook of a Hindu in any manner. Hinduism

> > is very flexible and adaptable. The Manusmrithi and the bhavath gita

> > are about enough scriptures for someone to lead a very righteous,

> > civilized life.

>

> >

> > Regards,

> > Jayaram

> >

> > advaitin, "narayana_kl_71"

> > <narayana_kl_71> wrote:

> > >

>

> > > Sridhar-ji,

> > >

> > >

> > > You say -

> > >

> > > > One reason why I was drawn to the spiritual approach of hinduism

> > is

> > > > that there is no labelling of the aspirant as a confirmed sinner

> > > with

> > > > hellfire and damnation awaiting him from a 'god' 'out there'

> > > > alternatively 'rewarding' and 'punishing'.

> > >

> > >

> > > What you said above is mostly true for advaita vedAnta and some

> > > other hindu schools, but not for hinduism in general. There is a

> > > vivid description of various kinds of hells, punishments, and

> > > rewards in some hindu scriptures. Even the bhagavad gIta talks of

> > > eternal damnation in one of the verses, though I dont know what

> > > exactly is

>

> advaita's explanation of this verse.

>

>

> Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman

and Brahman.

> Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/

> To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

> Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

>

>

> Links

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namasté,

I believe Sri Krishna Prasad is referring to the Sanskrit spelling: shrImad

bhagavad-gItA, with reference to the "bh" which is an aspirated (breath comes

through with the 'b') letter, quite separate to the letter 'b' which has a

much harsher, plosive sound.

One sympathises with this point. If it is worth spending the trouble making a

post about our Bhagavan Sri Krishna's divine words, it is equally worth

attempting to show an awareness of the original language when making

transliterations (spelling the Devanagari into Roman or ABC letters).

 

anbudan

john

Siva-Siva

-

Krishna Prasad

 

Dear Sridharji,

 

Please do not americanise Srimad Bhagavad Geetha by calling the

abbreviation, Please write Srimad Bhagavad Geetha, these are the small

small things, we without our knowledge follow.

 

With Love & OM!

 

Krishna Prasad

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Narayana,

 

The purANAs do carry vivid descriptions of various hells. These are

sufferings that the jIva undergoes, as you put it right. Just as the

jIva experiences happiness through karma, it also suffers through

karma. Thoughts and intentions cause the jIva to go through these

experiences.

 

Thoughts translate into three types of Karmas - sancita, prArabDa

and Agami. sancita karma is all the karma accumulated from past

actions. prArabDa is the karma that is reposnible for the experience

as the jIva goes through it in its current birth. Agami is the karma

that the jIva would accumulate as it go through its prArabDa

experience.

 

All our scriptures seem to agree upon the fact that while sancita

and Agami karmas can be nullified, the prArabDa has to be exhausted

by experience and experience alone. An interesting analogy to

understand this is using an archer who has just shot an arrow and is

ready to shoot another, while having a few more arrows in his

quiver. The arrow he just shot is the prArabDa. He can no longer

control it and can only experience its travel. The arrow he has

readied to shoot is his sancita and those in his quiver are his

Agami. He has control over both these.

 

So, this damnation or hell we are talking about is "earned" by the

jIva in its previous prArabDa experience.

 

I find Shankara's approach aligned very closely to the direction of

the upanishads and vedas and am really impressed.

 

To the learned scholars in this form : Please correct me if I seem

to be saying something wrong.

 

Regards,

Jayaram Thiagarajan

 

advaitin, "narayana_kl_71"

<narayana_kl_71> wrote:

>

> Sridhar-ji,

>

>

> > The only description of heaven and hell i can recall is from

> > mahabharatha. In mahabaratha, towards the end, Yudishtira is

taken

> > through a place which i believe is described as hell where he

finds

> > his brothers undergoing a bit of expiating experiences . The

> > description of the place as having abominable stench, wailing

> soulds

> > etc.- sounds a lot like hell!

>

>

> Please note the description of various hells that occurs in the

> purANas and some other smritis. As an example, the vishNu purANa,

> vAmana purANa, bhAgavata purANa etc. describe various hells. Some

of

> the names of the hells are tamisra, andhatamisra, raurava,

> maharaurava, kumbhipaka, kalasutra, asipatravana, sukara-mukha,

> andhakupa etc. In each hell, the jIva undergoes specific type of

> sufferings which are described in detail.

>

>

> > On BG you refer to ,bhagwan Sri Krishna at one point says that

> those

> > steeped in Tamas only go down further in evolution- one could

> become

> > an animal or a stone.I do not recollect any verse that speaks

about

> > deadly suffering in hell.

>

>

> There is no detailed description of hell in the BG. However, my

> point was that the concept of eternal damnation and hell occur

> (atleast apparently) in the BG. Please go through chapter 16. I

dont

> remember what Sankara says on this.

>

>

>

> > Otherwise I grew up being told that heaven and hell are in this

> life

> > only!.

>

>

> Your information is not incorrect. After describing various hells

in

> detail, the vishNu purANa mentions that hell and heaven are

various

> states of mind. I dont know about the position of other purANas or

> smritis here.

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri John,

 

I totally agree with you on this.

 

In my experience, words carry meanings and "feelings". When we utter

a word, it causes the associated feeling in the mind and this gives

the joy and the experience.

 

This is how it is to a child. To us grown-ups, the words have been

heard and uttered so many times over and over that the feeling is

brushed aside and the meaning alone is sounding of interest. To a

child, a toffee isn't "something small made of sugar that is wrapped

in a decorative paper", but is "something sweet and tasty that can

last for sometime". This is the difference between meaning and

feeling.

 

I really experienced this when I started analyzing the meaning of

the Sanskrit words; in particular, the word "shridhara". A simple

careless dictionary could interpret this as "one who's consort is

Shri" or "a name of Lord Vishnu". But careful analysis of the word

gives us the meaning "Shri + Dhara" or "the one who wears/bears

Lakshmi". How intimate should the loved one "Shri" be, in order to

be worn by the Lord? And how fortunate should the Lord be in order

to be wearing/ bearing "Shri" right on his chest? This is the

feeling that words can give when we utter them.

 

I don't know if I over-emphasized something that probably didn't

require so much explanation. But I definitely hope it helps.

 

Regards,

Jayaram Thiagarajan

 

advaitin, "John Champneys" <ramanachala@o...>

wrote:

>

> Namasté,

> I believe Sri Krishna Prasad is referring to the Sanskrit

spelling: shrImad bhagavad-gItA, with reference to the "bh" which is

an aspirated (breath comes through with the 'b') letter, quite

separate to the letter 'b' which has a much harsher, plosive sound.

> One sympathises with this point. If it is worth spending the

trouble making a post about our Bhagavan Sri Krishna's divine words,

it is equally worth attempting to show an awareness of the original

language when making transliterations (spelling the Devanagari into

Roman or ABC letters).

>

> anbudan

> john

> Siva-Siva

> -

> Krishna Prasad

>

> Dear Sridharji,

>

> Please do not americanise Srimad Bhagavad Geetha by calling the

> abbreviation, Please write Srimad Bhagavad Geetha, these are the

small

> small things, we without our knowledge follow.

>

> With Love & OM!

>

> Krishna Prasad

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Jayaram Thiagarajan"

<jayaram_t> wrote:

>

> Dear Sri Narayana,

>

> The purANAs do carry vivid descriptions of various hells. These

are

> sufferings that the jIva undergoes, as you put it right. Just as

the

> jIva experiences happiness through karma, it also suffers through

> karma. Thoughts and intentions cause the jIva to go through these

> experiences.

>

>

> Jayaram Thiagarajan

>

> advaitin, "narayana_kl_71"

> <narayana_kl_71> wrote:

> >

>

 

Namaste Jayram-Ji:

 

The vivid description in puraaNa was most probably designed for

improving one's understanding. But the problem creeps up when we

start accepting the principles at their face value.

 

Kaplimuni (samkhaya propponant) when discussing the relationship of

attachment with his mother devahuti says -

 

ataiva narakaH svrga iti maataH pracaxate | yaa yaatanaa vai

naakyastaa ihaapyupalaxitaaH || bhaagavata 3.30.29 |

 

meaing (liberal) - Oh Mother! svarga and narakaa is right here.

 

The take home message was that we are responsible for creating them

(heaven or Hell).

 

In moxa giitaa explains to arjuna -

 

moxasya na hi vaaso.asti na graamantarameva . adnyaana

hR^idayagranthinaasho moxa iti smR^ita .. shivagiitaa 13\.32 ..

 

Meaning - moxa is not going from one place to another (Mumbai to

Delhi or vaiku.nTha) but the amputation of the glands that secrete

ignorance.

 

vij~naate saaxipuruShe paramaatmani ceshvare |

nairaashye bandhamoxe ca na cintaamuktaye mama || aShTaavakra giitaa

14\.3 ||

 

Meaning - Once haing realized the significance of "saaxi puruSha", a

real J~naani does not even have the desire (kaamanaa) for moxa

either.

 

Now if we take the overall picture at individual or social

vyavahaarikaa or paramaarthikaa level.

 

Accepting the puraaNika concepts at face value as being absolute

true; the only folks who have suffered were no body else but us.

Could the daaasya-bhaava be the real cause of our peasent day

suffring as well!!??

 

Regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

[Guest guest]

Sri Jayaram ji,

 

 

I dont disagree with you on most of these fundamental issues.

However I was merely pointing out that heaven and hell are viewed

differently in different schools or branches of hinduism. I

mentioned in the beginning itself that what Sridhar-ji thinks about

heaven and hell are mostly true for advaita vedAnta. But some

schools of hinduism and some scriptures too take these concepts more

literally and that is all I wanted to point out. Of course, even the

vishNu purANa, which gives these concepts in detail, ultimately

mentions that heaven and hell are various states of mind. Do the

other such scriptures which talk about heaven and hell in detail

also mention that? I have no idea.

 

 

 

 

advaitin, "Jayaram Thiagarajan"

<jayaram_t> wrote:

>

>

>

> Dear Sri Narayana,

>

> The purANAs do carry vivid descriptions of various hells. These

are

> sufferings that the jIva undergoes, as you put it right. Just as

the ..........