Gita In Daily Life - Chapter-1 - Dharma - Example-1 - Kurukshetra -

[Guest guest]

Namaste All.

 

--- Raghava wrote:

> Between now and Saturday:-

> ---------------------------

> A few practical instances from daily life or the

> Mahabharata will be provided and we have to analyze

> as to what is dharma and adharma in them and why.

> I will work on it and post them by Thursday or

> Friday.

 

It was stated that the kurukshetra is dharma-kshetra,

in the very first sloka of the gIta.

The fact that Lord Krishna was with the pandavas, one

can thru inference conclude that dharma was in the

side of the pandavas. However, because pandavas were

with dharma, led in dharma by Yudhistara, who is none

other than the king-of-dharma, Lord Krishna came to

their side and was with them always because dharma was

upheld at all times by them. Any single moment, if

there were a minor relaxation on dharma, Lord Krishna

would have left instantaneously. However, being ever

kind, he would have come back when things again came

in order.

 

The question is, why is the war considered a

dharmic-war ?

Is it because that pandavas need to be given their

rightful share of the kingdom due to their father

being the king earlier ?

In my opinion, it is more than giving pandavas their

rightful share. Continuing the ruling by the adharmic

king (duryodhana) would have caused downfall for the

entire nation. Hence, the dharmic war of the

kurukshetra and the pandavas' victory with Lord

Krishna guiding them at all times.

 

Further comments are appreciated.

 

Love and kind regards,

Raghava

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

learned friends,

 

 

Yudhistira was the son of Lord Dharma. How could he indulge in a game

of dice? How could he not know that he would loose? How dare he lose

his brothers and wife? What kind of Dharmaraja was he? Those were the

asked about him. Those questions were even addressed to him. He

replied that when Rama the Avatar could not know that the golden deer

was false, there is no wonder in his own lapse at the dice game.

Surely this is complete justification, but cannot constitute an

answer. Rama was an avatar, i.e. an emanation of Vishnu, born as a

human mortal. Lord Shiva foolishly gave a boon to an asura who

attempted to test it on Shiva himself. Had he tested it, Shiva would

have been reduced to ashes. It was Vishnu's intervention and ruse

that made the Asura put his hand on his head and test its efficacy.

 

Well, if Yudhistira could lapse, an Avatar can go wrong, God himself

can be so trapped, then, of course, KARMA is too powerful. Or the

laws of the cosmos are inexorable. Krishna stands out from this net.

Perhaps he is outstanding. How to answer the question asked of

Yudhistira? You may be from any higher world, but when you are born

in earth, the laws of earth are binding on you. So also, the karma

that envelops the life of a divine being born on earth. Let us come

nearer home. Is that the end of Indian spirituality?

 

If you find yourself in such a position as Yudhistira or Shiva, feel

entirely helpless, and find the onset of Life is imminent, then think

of God and he will help you with his grace. Then you will see the

karma is not binding on you. Karma binds the hero of Mahabharata and

the hero of Ramayana, not one who relies on the force now on earth

active in the atmosphere.

 

pranams

 

cdr b vaidyanathan

[Guest guest]

Namaste all.

 

cdr b vaidyanathan ji's dialogue is interesting and

here are further thoughts.

Reference:

advaitin/message/26354

>Yudhistira was the son of Lord Dharma.

>How could he indulge in a game of dice?

 

As per the dharma of the kings of those days, when

invited, the kings must not refuse a game of dice of

fair-play.

>How could he not know that he would loose?

He did not know that he would lose because it was not

a fair play.

 

> How dare he lose his brothers and wife?

> What kind of Dharmaraja was he?

 

When nothing else he had, he had to continue with what

he had. Draupadi later demands an answer on the same

and asks, 'did he lose me first ?' or 'did he lose

himself first ?' Dharmaraja, was, of course knowing

better in aspects of dharma.

 

However, dharmaraja, whatever he did, had to lose this

game one way or other. Sakuni's determination was

such, exploiting the dharma aspect of the king. Who

knows, what dharmaraja had in mind. He knew that the

kauravas are bent on victory one way or other and so

dharmaraja wanted to perhaps avoid a large scale war

and settle it out this way by conceding.

Lord Krishna was cleverer in all such matters, as was

evident in the following context during the war -

"kunjarah" , "sikandi", "karna's fall", "jayadhrata",

etc.

 

Several times, the arrows of bhishma, drona etc would

have pierced Arjuna, but for the silent intervention

of Lord Krishna by diverting the chariot or pressing

it into the earth so that the arrows missed targets.

Once, Arjuna's crown falls. All these, look like

adharma but are dharma in the large-scale. When the

war was over, against the normal custom of dharma,

Lord Krishna asks Arjuna to get down first and after

Lord Krishna also gets off the chariot, it goes into

flames due to the power of the sastrAs of kauravas,

which were dormant so far. This is also dharma in the

larger context.

 

Love & Regards,

Raghava

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste Vaidyanathan Ji

 

A Humble request, as Hindus remarks such as "Lord Shiva foolishly gave a

boon to an asura who attempted to test it on Shiva himself."

in your posting are uncalled for and can be written in a more

considerate mannar.

Iswara(regardless of Shiva, Visnu etc.) is taken as Bhagavan. Bhagavan

meaning the one endowed with the six qualities. Of these six qualities one

is Sarva jnah(all knowing). Thus the comment of being foolish is wrong. It

is seen in the puranas that many people(asuras,devas, manusha) perform

tapas etc, iswara pleased with the tapas appears before them and very often

a boon is given. But if you see the puranas with a macro view it will be

noticed that, everything is weaved together and is linked together. There

is a bigger picture to the whole thing.

 

 

D Suneail

d.suneail

********************************

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "B VAIDYANATHAN"

<vaidyanathiyer> wrote:

>

> learned friends,

>

>

> Yudhistira was the son of Lord Dharma. How could he indulge in a

game

> of dice? How could he not know that he would loose? How dare he

lose

> his brothers and wife? What kind of Dharmaraja was he? Those were

the

> asked about him. Those questions were even addressed to him. He

> replied that when Rama the Avatar could not know that the golden

deer

> was false, there is no wonder in his own lapse at the dice game.

> Surely this is complete justification, but cannot constitute an

> answer. Rama was an avatar, i.e. an emanation of Vishnu, born as a

> human mortal. Lord Shiva foolishly gave a boon to an asura who

> attempted to test it on Shiva himself. Had he tested it, Shiva

would

> have been reduced to ashes. It was Vishnu's intervention and ruse

> that made the Asura put his hand on his head and test its efficacy.

>

> Well, if Yudhistira could lapse, an Avatar can go wrong, God

himself

> can be so trapped, then, of course, KARMA is too powerful. Or the

> laws of the cosmos are inexorable. Krishna stands out from this

net.

> Perhaps he is outstanding. How to answer the question asked of

> Yudhistira? You may be from any higher world, but when you are

born

> in earth, the laws of earth are binding on you. So also, the karma

> that envelops the life of a divine being born on earth. Let us

come

> nearer home. Is that the end of Indian spirituality?

>

> If you find yourself in such a position as Yudhistira or Shiva,

feel

> entirely helpless, and find the onset of Life is imminent, then

think

> of God and he will help you with his grace. Then you will see the

> karma is not binding on you. Karma binds the hero of Mahabharata

and

> the hero of Ramayana, not one who relies on the force now on earth

> active in the atmosphere.

>

> pranams

>

> cdr b vaidyanathan

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "B VAIDYANATHAN"

<vaidyanathiyer> wrote: (on 7th April)

>

> learned friends,

>

>

> Lord Shiva foolishly gave a boon to an asura who

> attempted to test it on Shiva himself.

 

Namaste

 

The word 'foolishly' used above by you in relation to Shiva has

raised objections from a reader. I inadvertently lost that message

in editing it. The objection is to the fact that the Puranas, while

dealing with various episodes about Gods like Shiva and Vishnu do

report anecdotes which puzzle us. But they have always a purpose. If

we do not understand it then we are missing the spirit of the

religion called Hinduism.

 

The reader who raised the objection (I am not able to recall his

name) may repost his mail if he thinks I have not brought out his

point effectively. I am sorry for the inadvertence in losing his

mail. There was another inadvertence which caused Mr. Vaidyanathan's

post appear again (today on 8th April, posted by me) without my

comments above.

 

PraNAms to all advaitins

profvk

[Guest guest]

Namaste ProfVK-Ji:

 

You are so correct in saying that not understanding the real meaning

behind the stories in puraaNa we tend to miss out on the essence of

our culture. It is our duty to understand the meaning and it's

associated significance.

 

It is only objection that becomes objectionable when one does not

understand the significance of the story. However, once' that

aspect is understood, then all the objections dissolve automatically.

 

Example - If Lord shiva did not behead the gaNa created by paarvati

then gjaanana would not have been born. It is only after he (shiva)

realized the significance of that creation by paarvati, he decided

to replace the head (with an elephant head), our culture got gaNesha.

 

That is why, vedavysaa recommends that upabR^ihaNa for Vedas need to

be performed with the help of puraaNa. It is said - that Veda is

afraid that it is being attacked.

 

itihaasapuraaNaabhyaa.m veda.m samupabR^i.mhayet .

bibhetyalpashrutaadvedo maamaya.m prahariShyati ma. bhaa. Adiparva

1.293.-294.

 

One of the primary purpose of shavagaNa, vinaayakagaNaa was to

create obstacles. This becomes very clear when we read

yaaj~navalkasmR^iti.

 

Further elaboration and discussion on this subject is beyond the

guidelines and the scope of this list.

 

 

Regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

 

advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk>

wrote:

>

> advaitin, "B VAIDYANATHAN"

> <vaidyanathiyer> wrote: (on 7th April)

> >

> > learned friends,

> >

> >

> > Lord Shiva foolishly gave a boon to an asura who

> > attempted to test it on Shiva himself.

>

> Namaste

>

> The word 'foolishly' used above by you in relation to Shiva has

> raised objections from a reader. I inadvertently lost that

message

> in editing it. The objection is to the fact that the Puranas,

while

> dealing with various episodes about Gods like Shiva and Vishnu do

> report anecdotes which puzzle us. But they have always a purpose.

If we do not understand it then we are missing the spirit of the

> religion called Hinduism.

>

>

> PraNAms to all advaitins

> profvk

[Guest guest]

hariH OM! vaidyanathanji, friends,

 

namaskaar.

 

you have raised a profoundly important point.

 

i have alluded to in the past what i'm about to divulge re my theory

of universal imperfection, applicable to not only jivas manifest in

brahman's leela, but even in seed form as the potential for

mayashakthi (power of desire) as mulaprakrit latent in the

parabrahmam Itself!

 

now, before the reader becomes philosophically outraged by what i'm

saying here, i only ask that they give it a chance and keep an open

mind. for, although i don't discount there's a possibility i could

be wrong, i really don't think i am...quite the contrary: i contend

that this pragmatic observation (i'll call a theory) is capable of

clearing so many doubts that plague almost everyone on the jnanamarg,

and--most importantly of all--can very much assist one to realize

their already present/innate state of moksha itself!

 

first and foremost, as rig veda reveals in no uncertain terms,

brahman, after unfathomable "ages" immersed in Its unmanifest

mahapralaya, eventually comes to develop a certain state of

restlessness which leads to the stirring of Its latent seed form of

desire, to therefore experience Itself within the multiplicity of

manifestation (manvantara). this dynamic of mayashakthi, as sankara

teaches, has no origin or termination. it is eternally cyclical.

therefore, the whole purpose of such manifestation is for the

existentially unsophisticated idea of *entertainment* of and by

brahman! this, in of itself, implicates a primal flaw existing in

the "vijnanakashic" paramartha of parabrahmam!

 

therefore, it stands to reason that avatars/jagat and sadgurus from

shiva as dakshinamurthy, subramanya, sankara, ramana, lord maitreya

[who overshadowed jesus], etc; and vishnu as rama, krishna,

vedavyasa, valmiki, ramakrishna, gotama buddha, lao tzu, etc are NOT

perfected beings! they have ALL been at times subject to varying

degrees of the gunas as well as occasionally being adversely affected

by asuras of different levels (which are, incidentally, vital to the

overall ineffable process of the divine Plan unfolding!). however,

relative to the jivas submerged in avidya in the forms of avarana and

vikshepa, as well as sadhakas and even sadhus and pakvas in the final

stages of the path leading to atmashakshatkara or Self realization,

[they] undoubtedly *appear* as perfected beings. now, there are

advantages and disadvantages to seeing them in such a light as well

as having such regard for them. the advantage is that they provide

solace and means for devotional worship [for the purpose of defusing

the separative ego-mind] for bhakthas as well as the bhakthi element

within jnanayogins.

 

the disadvantage however is a colossaly major one, which prevents the

aspirant, *especially* when having reached the threshold of breaking

the barrier of self-delusion (viz. that one is not a jnani), from

achieving jivanmukthi. and that is, since one cannot get over the

fact that the BMC (body-mind complex) is NOT perfect, the inevitable

conclusion that sticks like crazyglue in the form of a sustained self-

judgment, is "how can i possibly be a jnan if i have so immeasurably

far to go before i even *appraoch* the perfection of the

masters??!!"

 

much more needs be elaborated within this theory to make its

potential verity more palpable to the scrutinizing intellect;

however, unfortunately i'm not able to do so at this time.

 

OM shaanthipremananda!

 

frank

 

 

advaitin, "B VAIDYANATHAN"

<vaidyanathiyer> wrote:

>

> learned friends,

>

>

> Yudhistira was the son of Lord Dharma. How could he indulge in a

game

> of dice? How could he not know that he would loose? How dare he

lose

> his brothers and wife? What kind of Dharmaraja was he? Those were

the

> asked about him. Those questions were even addressed to him. He

> replied that when Rama the Avatar could not know that the golden

deer

> was false, there is no wonder in his own lapse at the dice game.

> Surely this is complete justification, but cannot constitute an

> answer. Rama was an avatar, i.e. an emanation of Vishnu, born as a

> human mortal. Lord Shiva foolishly gave a boon to an asura who

> attempted to test it on Shiva himself. Had he tested it, Shiva

would

> have been reduced to ashes. It was Vishnu's intervention and ruse

> that made the Asura put his hand on his head and test its efficacy.

>

> Well, if Yudhistira could lapse, an Avatar can go wrong, God

himself

> can be so trapped, then, of course, KARMA is too powerful. Or the

> laws of the cosmos are inexorable.