Guest guest Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 advaitajnana, "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote: Namaste, This is a strange question. Why pray to a Being instead of God? Very simply 'God' is a concept and cannot hear or help you. God is the energy, karma is the drive. So as a friend can help you here in this plane of delusion so a Deva can help you as well. 'God' doesn't get involved, the delusion of love energy is there, but even that Saguna conscept is untrue. For ultimately we can only infer Nirguna..This is why people pray to superior beings, because they can aid one, in delusion..ONS..--- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Tonyji wrote : > Very simply 'God' is a concept and cannot hear or help you. God is > the energy, karma is the drive. For ultimately we can only infer >Nirguna. Namaste Tonyji, There is a contradiction in your statements above. In one statement you say God is a concept and in the very next one you say it is energy. If God is a concept, then even non duality is a concept because we live in a world of 6 billion people and no matter what we say, read or declare, Jnani or Ajnani, we continue to perceive plurality. God is sort of a reconciliator between Truth and error. The Truth is absolute non-duality or Atman and this material life or mortality is the error. It is only by God's grace that you learn and understand the Truth. He will propel you in that direction. regards, Shailendra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Namste Shailendra-JI: I do not see any problem with what Toni-Ji has said: >> For ultimately we can only infer Nirguna..This is why people pray to superior beings, because they can aid one, in delusion..ONS..Tony<< That why gita 4.34 advises us to approach the knowledgeable folks with humility. After all it is all just about realization. >>>> He will propel you in that direction <<<< This "HE" is no one but you yourself. Who finally does the evaluation and realize? And then make the necessary changes! It no one else but you yourself. The Guru is in you. One may call it inner voice, the gut feeling the revelation. Searching outside is the real problem and IMHO that is what advaita really teaches us. That why raamadaasa svaami advices his own mind - bahu hiNDtaa saukhya hoNaara naahi | vicaare paNe tuuca shodhoni paahe || or/and tasmaata vicaara karaava | deva kona to vo Lakhaava || aapalyaa maapaNa shodha ghyaavaa | antarayaami || Overall take home message was to think for you yourself and then decide for yourself what is the real in the apparent reality. Regards, Dr. Yadu advaitin, Shailendra Bhatnagar <bhatnagar_shailendra> wrote: > Tonyji wrote : > > Very simply 'God' is a concept and cannot hear or help you. God is > the energy, karma is the drive. For ultimately we can only infer >Nirguna. > > Namaste Tonyji, There is a contradiction in your statements above. In one statement you say God is a concept and in the very next one you say it is energy. If God is a concept, then even non duality is a concept because we live in a world of 6 billion people and no matter what we say, read or declare, Jnani or Ajnani, we continue to perceive plurality. God is sort of a reconciliator between Truth and error. The Truth is absolute non-duality or Atman and this material life or mortality is the error. It is only by God's grace that you learn and understand the Truth. He will propel you in that direction. > > regards, > Shailendra > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 advaitin, Shailendra Bhatnagar <bhatnagar_shailendra> wrote: > Tonyji wrote : > > Very simply 'God' is a concept and cannot hear or help you. God is > the energy, karma is the drive. For ultimately we can only infer >Nirguna. > > Namaste Tonyji, There is a contradiction in your statements above. In one statement you say God is a concept and in the very next one you say it is energy. If God is a concept, then even non duality is a concept because we live in a world of 6 billion people and no matter what we say, read or declare, Jnani or Ajnani, we continue to perceive plurality. Namaste Shailendra-ji, Sankara said it is real whilst we are in it. Yes words in themselves are a problem. Without getting into Madhyamika etc, let me say this. Yes God and God as energy are a concept, everything but Nir guna is a concept, for it is within Mahat or mind. Even attributing some obvious validity to 'creation', which you do with your remark on 6 billion people, doesn't mean that the concept of Saguna does hear us as such. A sadist who gets his pleasure from torture is enjoying the same energy of the Goddess as one who is praying. There is no discrimination. So if we are unrealised we seem to be real, as real as the Devas. So as a human being can help us, so can a Deva or whatever. ( There is only one mind). A Deva may help with manipulating thought or whatever, an Avatar may manipulate matter etc. Brahman in any concept is not involved except in supplying the energy. If this were not so, there would be no need for Avatars, and teaching Muktas etc. What is an Avatar but a descended Deva? A Mukta is more 'advanced' than that, being in Moksha. IMHO. I have a sneaky suspicion many Avatars become Muktas in their lifetimes. So what I am saying is that religions that pray for intercession from Devas and Saints may in fact be more on the ball than someone trying to pray to the Universal for help. Going within is the best help but most don't do that, or cannot comprehend it.....ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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