Gita In Daily Life - Ch1 Summary - Part1 - On Handling of grief due to death -

[Guest guest]

Namaste All.

 

Shree Murthy Ji wrote:-

http://www.escribe.com/culture/advaitin/m25447.html

>And the root cause for this is the attachment.

>Also, please note that it is not the death that

>causes the grief.

>It is the attachment that causes the grief.

 

This is wonderfully stated.

 

This is to put in some thoughts on dealing with the

grief due to death.

A solution to solving grief due to 'death' lies in

'life' lived well, in my humble opinion, like coolness

being a remedy to hotness in summer.

 

Of a dead person, questions may be asked by the near

and dear: where is the consciousness that was present

yesterday gone ? We will be happy if we know that the

person is doing fine and will not ask more questions.

And likewise, many other questions which may have no

direct answers.

 

For the person-1, whose life is lived well with joy,

contentment and happiness with a person-2, during the

time that both are alive, it will be like one

consciousness living two lives. So with many persons,

in the manner of the upanishadic statement "it is due

to the consciousness in a person that the person is

dear". Hence, death really does not separate; ideally.

 

Long time ago, I read from Richard Bach- "if you want

to be there, are you not already there". Death does

not seem to limit this awareness; ideally.

 

Love & Regards,

Raghava

 

 

 

 

______________________

India Matrimony: Find your partner online.

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[Guest guest]

advaitin, Raghavarao Kaluri

<raghavakaluri> wrote:

>

> This is to put in some thoughts on dealing with the

> grief due to death.

> A solution to solving grief due to 'death' lies in

> 'life' lived well, in my humble opinion, like coolness

> being a remedy to hotness in summer.

>

>[...]

 

namaste. Just to continue on this topic and give a different

perspective.

 

Lord Krishna says in Bg2.11, and this is one of the important

verses of chapter 2 in the context of gItA in daily life.

 

ashocyAnanvashocastvaM prajnAvAdAMshca bhAShase

gatAsUnagatAsUMshca nAnushocanti panDitAH

 

You grieve for those whom you should not grieve for and yet

you speak words about wisdom. Wise men do not grieve for the

dead or for the living.

 

I give below some examples from the literature expressing the

same point.

 

1. from rAmAyaNa: RAma (along with LakshmaNa and SItA) left

Ayodhya for his stay in the forests. King Dasharadha died in

Ayodhya not being able to bear the separation from his beloved

RAma. Bharata visits RAma on the ChitrakUta mountain bearing the

bad news of Dasharadha's death, conveys that news to RAma and

Bharata starts crying at the death of the father. RAma consoles

Bharata in the following words: "Dear Bharata, why do you grieve?

As waters in a river flow, two pieces of log carried by the

water happen to get together for a few moments. Because of the

river currents, in a few moments, the two logs get separated

again. In the same way, during the flow of saMsAra, children,

friends, spouse, relatives get related and get to know each

other by the previous karmaphala of the various people involved.

As the (prArabdha)karmaphala expires (of the people involved),

they go in their own way. When we are born, we know we die one

day. The one who knows this and walks the path of dharma, he

would not grieve for anything.

 

2. from bhajagovindam: shri shankara says

 

kAte kAntA kaste putraH saMsAroyamatIva vicitraH .

kasya tvaM kaH kuta AyAtaH tattvaM cintaya tadiha bhrAtaH

 

Who is your wife? Who is your son? Strange is this samsAra.

Of whom are you? From where have you come? Brother, ponder

over these truths here.

 

3. Lord KrishNa says in bhagavadgItA in another context (9.33)

 

anityam asukham lokam imam prApya bhajaswa mAm

 

arjuna (and through arjuna, Lord krishna addressing the whole

humanity), this world is impermanent, and is full of sorrow.

Having entered this sorrowful world, worship Me by adhering

to so'ham bhAva and attain the Self.

 

4. In yet another context in bhagavgItA (2.28), Lord Krishna

says:

 

avyaktAdIni bhUtAni vyaktamadhyAni bhArata

avyaktanidhanAnyeva tatra kA paridevanA

 

Beings are unmanifest in their beginnings, manifest in the

middles and unmanifest again in their ends. O Bharata, what

is there in this for lamentation?

 

re the spouse or child or relative (whose death we mourn),

we do not know who that person was in his/her previous life.

We do not know whether a male or a female, or whether a human

or an insect or an animal or a tree, whose spouse he/she was.

We do not know what happens after death, whether he/she will

be human, or what type of life-form will be taken. We just

came across that person only in this life which is a very brief

period of our spiritual journey. The death is inescapable.

Then why worry?

 

5. The Indian train journey is another good analogy. As we

travel in the train, different people get on the train at

different stations, make a brief acquiantance during the

journey and get off the train at their destinations. We

do not grieve when they get off the train. Similarly, there

is no reason to grieve at the death of a person after making

acquantance with us for a brief period which is this life.

 

 

regards

gummuluru murthy

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

I hope that this doesn't apear to reek of sarcasm since the below quote

has given me a perspective that I should have had long ago. I lost a

house, all my savings, and friends when I divorced that log. The log

has since joined with another log with cowboy boots, and I don't care.

 

Thank you; this was helpful,

 

Bob Freedman

gmurthy_99 wrote:

 

RAma consoles

> Bharata in the following words: "Dear Bharata, why do you grieve?

> As waters in a river flow, two pieces of log carried by the

> water happen to get together for a few moments. Because of the

> river currents, in a few moments, the two logs get separated

> again.

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "gmurthy_99" <gmurthy@m...> wrote:

>

>

>

> You grieve for those whom you should not grieve for and yet

> you speak words about wisdom. Wise men do not grieve for the

> dead or for the living.

>

> I give below some examples from the literature expressing the

> same point.

>

> 1. from rAmAyaNa: RAma (along with LakshmaNa and SItA) left

> Ayodhya for his stay in the forests. King Dasharadha died in

> Ayodhya not being able to bear the separation from his beloved

> RAma. Bharata visits RAma on the ChitrakUta mountain bearing the

> bad news of Dasharadha's death, conveys that news to RAma and

> Bharata starts crying at the death of the father. RAma consoles

> Bharata in the following words: "Dear Bharata, why do you grieve?

> As waters in a river flow, two pieces of log carried by the

> water happen to get together for a few moments. Because of the

> river currents, in a few moments, the two logs get separated

> again. In the same way, during the flow of saMsAra, children,

> friends, spouse, relatives get related and get to know each

> other by the previous karmaphala of the various people involved.

> As the (prArabdha)karmaphala expires (of the people involved),

> they go in their own way. When we are born, we know we die one

> day. The one who knows this and walks the path of dharma, he

> would not grieve for anything.

>

>

 

Namaste, Murthygaru and all

 

The episode from Ramayana that you brought out is very apt at this

point. I am happy that you referred to it now. The corresponding

sermon that Rama gives to Bharata in that context is known also

as 'Rama Gita' (though there is a larger Rama Gita where Rama

preaches Vedanta to Lakshmana). For the benefit of the readers I am

giving below a reference to one of my web pages, which is relevant

in the same context. The webpage is an answer to a question: Why

does Hinduism spiritualise every problem of life?

 

http://www.geocities.com/profvk/HNG/FAQpage3.html

 

PraNAms to all advaitins

profvk

[Guest guest]

Dear Bob,

 

Just further along your own perspective:

 

You wrote:

I lost a house, all my savings, and friends when I divorced that log. The log

has since joined with another log with cowboy boots, and I don't care.

 

Venkat - log:

 

You, Your house, your savings and your freinds are again all logs brought

briefly together by the current of the river of life only to drift apart later

carried by the same current. The 'care-log' which had come close to the log that

you call 'me' has now drifted afar.

 

 

Regards,

 

Venkat

 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste All.

 

This is to continue the thread, which is becoming

interesting with Shree Murthy-Ji's insights.

 

Raghava wrote:-

>

> A solution to solving grief due to 'death' lies in

> 'life' lived well, in my humble opinion, like

> coolness being a remedy to heat in summer.

>Shree Murthi Ji:-

>0. From gItA: "ashocyAnanvashocastvaM.."

>1. From rAmAyaNa:

>Rama: "Dear Bharata, why do you grieve?.."

 

Raghava:-

Respectfully, I would like to convey that, the two

persons(krishna,rAma) who commaded Arjuna and Bharata,

lived life fully and with dharma. They themselves

never grieved for anything. The people who actually

grieved - Arjuna and Bharata, did not yet reach the

state of equanimity and fullness (sthita-prajna) and

that is why they grieved.

Thus, in my humble opinion, when one lives life fully

and with dharma, like Lord Krishna and Lord rAma, one

would be able to reconcile with,

"ashocyAnanvashocastvaM..". Hence, it seems to me that

through many sAdhanAs pointed out in Ch:2, the

solution to grief lies in life living well like a

sthita-prajna.

 

Now, with the above, it is further interesting on the

quote from

> from bhajagovindam:

>kAte kAntA kaste putraH saMsAroyamatIva vicitraH.

>kasya tvaM kaH kuta AyAtaH tattvaM cintaya tadiha

bhrAtaH

>Who is your wife? Who is your son?

>Strange is this samsAra.

>Of whom are you? From where have you come?

>Brother, ponder over these truths here.

 

As we can see from the life of Lord Krishna and Lord

rAma, they both had perfect understanding on 'who is

spouse?', 'who is child?', 'who am i ?'

With the correct understanding that, the spouse or

child are dear because of the Atma in them due to

which they are dear, they led full lives and we can

see the same example of siva and pArvati as

ardha-nArEswara.

 

Love and Kind Regards,

Raghava

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

______________________

India Matrimony: Find your partner online.

http://.shaadi.com/india-matrimony/

[Guest guest]

Namaste all.

 

I recall having narrated this incident earlier here. I am repeating

it now in the hope of rendering a new perspective to

gatAsUnagatAsuMca…, where we give consideration to only the dead and

living.

 

This dates back to the eighties. One of my colleagues had an

epileptic daughter, who used to get as many as over one hundred petit

mal fits every day. The retarded child was on a heavy dose of

sedatives like barbiturates and valium. She was a virtual liability.

Yet, my colleague was very much attached to her. Anyone would be,

because she was an angel to look at. Due to some other

complications, the doctors were compelled to withdraw the sedatives

and the child died of cardiac arrest.

 

On hearing the sad news, I paid a visit to my friend's household. He

was in a state of shock. I didn't have words to console him. I sat

with him for a few minutes and left pondering.

 

His attachment to the child and the guilt over withdrawing the drugs

were grieving him. The attachment, as we now know, was due to

nascent ignorance. The guilt was due to a sense of agency in the

tragedy, although he was simply following the doctors' advice and

couldn't help the medical circumstances of the case in any way.

 

The girl's condition was a source of daily torment to him. Supposing

the girl was quite well. Would he have lived happily? Most

probably, yes. But, even then, she would grow up from a delightful

tiny totter to a full-fledged woman, get married and might cause a

lot of torment to the father through her antagonistic behaviour. He

was grieving the loss of a `darling child', whom he was any way going

to lose as she grows up. That beautiful girl was a very changing

thing as ephemeral as the rose in his garden. He couldn't reasonably

hope to cling to such a changing thing. Yet, he was attached and,

therefore, utterly lost on her passing away!

 

Everything in life is thus momentary. We are all gatAsUs even while

we are living. I look at `this thing' called myself. He was a

teenager who used to scale the neighbourhood hill at night with a

star map and torch in hand to locate and gaze at the distant

constellations. He wrote his first amorous note to the girl next

doors. Unfortunately, a school teacher intercepted the message and

passed it to his reprimanding mother. Then, over the years, he grew

up into a youth leaving the teenager dead and gone and got married

to become the proud father of two girls. He used to carry his

wheezing baby daughter all night ceaselessly chanting the Hanuman

chalisa hoping that would grant her miraculous relief. She has now

grown into a young girl wanting to do medicine. There are no more

any babies in the household. The babies are gatAsUs. Their father has

grayed and wrinkled in a city many thousands of miles away from his

enchanting village hill. His village beauty, who never had a chance

to read the first love letter addressed to her, the spying school

teacher and the anxious mother have all entered the folds of

oblivion. The city lights have robbed the teenager of the starry

night skies. Where is that boy and the later young father now? Gone

with the wind. An unending procession of gatAsUs is all that we have!

 

A Malayalam poetess once sang:

 

"Back leaning over a pillar

Right outside my house,

Immersed in gloomy thoughts I sit.

Time spreads around and carries by

Tears and laughter in her rush."

 

Having read Chapter 2 repeatedly, I have no reason for gloominess.

Yet, like the poetess, I am sitting and witnessing - a `continuity'

in the ever-shining light of which the teenager, his girl-friend,

mother, teacher and babes have come and gone like the players on a

stage. The graying, wrinkled player now on stage will also exit

after mouthing his dialogue. All gatAsUs! Who cares as long as the

Light shines on?

 

Apologies for this nostalgic indulgence. I couldn't simply resist it.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

________________________

 

 

advaitin, S Venkatraman <svenkat52> wrote:

> Dear Bob,

>

> Just further along your own perspective:

>

> You wrote:

> I lost a house, all my savings, and friends when I divorced that

log. The log has since joined with another log with cowboy boots,

and I don't care.

>

> Venkat - log:

>

> You, Your house, your savings and your freinds are again all logs

brought briefly together by the current of the river of life only to

drift apart later carried by the same current. The 'care-log' which

had come close to the log that you call 'me' has now drifted afar.

[Guest guest]

> I recall having narrated this incident earlier here. I am repeating

>it now in the hope of rendering a new perspective to

>gatAsUnagatAsuMca., where we give consideration to only the dead and

>living.

>He was grieving the loss of a `darling child', whom he was any way going

>to lose as she grows up. That beautiful girl was a very changing

>thing as ephemeral as the rose in his garden. He couldn't reasonably

>hope to cling to such a changing thing. Yet, he was attached and,

>therefore, utterly lost on her passing away!

> Everything in life is thus momentary. We are all gatAsUs even while

>we are living.

>Where is that boy and the later young father now?

 

Excellent, Nairji! In a very poetic manner you have stated greatest Vedantic

truths - this Loka is indeed anitya.

 

anityam asukham lokam imam prApya bhajasva mAm.- BG 9:33

 

The same strain is found very often in Urdu poetry.

 

is Khana-e-hastee se guzar jAuungA be-laus

sAyA huun faqat naksh-e-deevAr naheen huun -Akbar Ilahabadi

 

( I shall pass untainted through this house of existence. I am but a shadow;

not a writing on the wall)

 

Humble pranam to all advaitins.

 

Ravi Shivde