Gita In Daily Life - Characteristics of a sthitaprajna

[Guest guest]

Dear KBS,

 

A couple of points.

 

If we view the teaching 'karmaNyevAdhikAraste..', we see that

KrishNa is asking us to do our duties without insisting on or

expecting a particular outcome. But He does not ask us *not to

enjoy* what comes. Essentially, He is asking us to accept whatever

the outcome maybe.

 

Enjoying what comes one's way is different from having a desire to

enjoy something. The latter is attachment and leads to selfish, ego-

centric actions. For most of us, enjoyment of what comes can

lead to attachment and a desire to have more of the same (or if it

is painful, a desire to avoid it in future).

 

A sthita.prajna on the other hand, is not overwhelmed by conducive

or non-conducive things. He maintains his equanimity. IMHO, the

sthitaprajna has cast off all desires because he is already

complete - AtmanyevAtmanA.tushta - nothing outside can add to his

bliss or disturb his equilibrium.

 

My 2 cents.

 

By the way, nice to see you here, KBS.

 

Harih Om!

Neelakantan

[Guest guest]

Respected members,

 

The following points may be of some consideration to elucidate further

what Mr. Neelkantan has said,

 

1. Bhagwan Bhashyakar has pointed out that the 'lakshyartha'

of what Lord Krishna advised in sloka " karmanyev Adhikaraste..."

is that the expectation of the results of karma may cause the

rebirth in case the results are not obtained during the life span in

the same birth. Hence, this is to avoid the possible rebirth as a

creature (which the form is unknown now).

 

2. Lord Krishna, while replying to question of Arjuna, "Jyayasi

chetkarmanaste....." (3-1) has clearly told about the two faiths

(Nishta) in sloka "Lokeasmin....." (3-3). First is the faith in "Dhnyanyoga"

and another the faith in "Karmayoga".

 

The second chapter deals in (is the prakaran of ) "Sankhyayoga" .

The subject of "dhnyanyoga" is therefore the main subject (pardhan),

and the subject or karma is secondary (gauna). He (Krishna) has advised

Arjuna to refrain from the 'trigunmayi maya' that includes veda,

"nistraigunyo bhavarjuna' in two previous sloka. This of course,

is the teaching for the "dhyanyogees", and not for

those who have the faith that they are doers.

 

Again after two slokas "Durena hyavram karma buddhiYogatDhananjay"

(2-49) lord Krishna has denounced the karma badly.

 

We can understand that the sloka from 45 to 49 are continuous teachings

for "Dhnyanyogees" and not for those who do not want to give up

their faith in "Karam" (or say Ahamkar). It is difficult to say that

45 to 49 are for the "Dhnyan Nishta" and only one sloka inbetween i.e.

"karmanye......" (47) is for all the people who perform karma which they

think proper.

 

This is my humble opinion that "KarmanyevaAdhikaraste....", as is genrally

understood by all to be the advise for all may not be correct. This may

be the special advise only for the seekers (sadhaka) of "dhnyanayoga".

How much serious could be the discussion on this sloka ("karmanye.....)

by those who do not want to give up karma, can be a question.

 

Politely,

 

"Aniljee"

[Guest guest]

Namaste, Anilji.

 

Thank you for the post. I must respectfully disagree with your view

that chapter 2 only deals with jnAna yoga. The third chapter opens

with Arjuna asking 'jyAysee cet karmaNaste...'. This very question is

possible only because Sri KrishNa has talked about both karma and

jnAna in the previous chapter. I believe 'karmaNyeva..' along with the

following verses do discuss karma yoga. 'samatvam yoga ucyate', 'yogah

karmasu kaushalam', etc. do refer to karma yoga. Sri KrishNa exhorts

us to be unattached to the karma phala (hence 'krpaNAh phala hetavah').

 

This is my understanding. Learned members may provide corrections, if

needed.

 

Harih Om!

Neelakantan

[Guest guest]

Namaste Shri Ramachandraji.

 

I agree with you.

 

The poet who knows the scientific explanation for the occurrence of a

rainbow still waxes eloquent about its beauty. He knows the truth of

the barrenness of the Moon. Yet, it doesn't fail to inspire his

poetry.

 

There is no harm in legitimate enjoyment of life as long as we are

rooted in Atma Dharma. But, if circumstances deny enjoyment, we have

to accept that denial as coming from the Lord without fretting about

it. There is no harm in legitimate desires too as long as we know

that the result-giver is the Lord and when the result comes, whatever

it is, negative or positive, we have to accept with prasAdabuddhi. I

am just echoing Sw. Dayanandaji here, whose explanations I have found

most acceptable.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

___________________

 

advaitin, "K.B.S. Ramachandra" <ram@m...>

wrote:

.....> No attachment is fine. But does it mean to forsake all desires?

I think

> not. Are we not to enjoy good food, good music, pleasing sights,

sweet

> scents, loving company? To negate these would be against the human

> nature. I don't think that is the message for a sthitaprajna. In the

> Gita itself, the lord tells Arjuna to win the war and enjoy (rule)

the

> earth.

>

> In my humble opinion, for a sthitaprajna, SriKrishna's life is the

best

> example. ...............

[Guest guest]

Here is my understanding.

 

When Krishna says - sarvaan kaamaan mano gataan prajahaati - ALL desires

in the mind one gives up - and the justification Krishna provides in the

next line - atmanyeva aatmanaa tushhTaH - saH sthitaprajnaH - because he

revels in himself.

 

Desire is a notion that I will be happy when that that desire is

fulfilled and unhappy when it is not. What one is giving up is all the

notions that I am going to be happy with this or with that - these

include all raaga and dveshhaas which are reflection of ones vasanaas.

 

You cannot giveup any desire - you may be able to suppress it but will

spring back with double force in the moment of weakness or it converts

in to anger - Krishna gives a psychological degradation of how desire

makes one to loose ones discrimination.

 

Desire can be sublimated by yoga and that is the teaching of Geeta.

Sthitaprajna is the one whose desires are sublimated at the alter of his

love. Hence he has understood that he can be happy without depending on

anything other than himself - hence he revels in himself by himself. But

the self that he revels is ananda swaruupa. Hence happiness that one

gains even by fulfilling any desire is only through one self. WE are

only tapping that happiness round about way by going after the desire,

while he found a direct source for happiness. Then where is the need to

go after anything object for happiness. He does not long for anything or

any person since he found peace with himself.

 

One can in fact live more beautifully if one does not depend on anything

other than oneself. When we depend on desires for happiness we become

slave to these (people or objects). A true freedom is freedom from

dependency. Then only Life becomes pure liila - fun to play knowing very

well that you do not depend on the play for your livelihood. It is not

that he becomes a stone with no fun! In fact he will have the most fun

in life. Look at any mahaatma - whether with langota or with all the

luxuries, he will be bubbling with joy. He is the only one who lives the

life fully and effectively. His prajnaa is sthitaH or firmly rooted and

it does not oscillate since he is never far away from himself, the very

source of ananda or happiness.

 

Hari OM!

Sadananda

 

 

 

--- Madathil Rajendran Nair <madathilnair wrote:

> There is no harm in legitimate enjoyment of life as long as we are

> rooted in Atma Dharma. But, if circumstances deny enjoyment, we have

> to accept that denial as coming from the Lord without fretting about

> it.

> advaitin, "K.B.S. Ramachandra" <ram@m...>

> wrote:

> ....> No attachment is fine. But does it mean to forsake all desires?

> I think

> > not. Are we not to enjoy good food, good music, pleasing sights,

> sweet

> > scents, loving company? To negate these would be against the human

> > nature. I don't think that is the message for a sthitaprajna. In the

> > Gita itself, the lord tells Arjuna to win the war and enjoy (rule)

> the

> > earth.

> >

> > In my humble opinion, for a sthitaprajna, SriKrishna's life is the

> best

> > example. ...............

>

>

>

>

 

What you have is destiny and what you do with what you have is self-effort.

Future destiny is post destiny modified by your present action. You are not only

the prisoner of your past but master of your future. - Swami Chinmayananda

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

Quite right Sadaji.

 

He eats, listens to music and pauses to return the smile of smiling

flower. He does all this not like an 'enjoyer' or 'doer' like other

ordinary mortals. The food and music enjoyed and the smiling flower

are no more other than him and their phenomenal presence or absence

does not add or take away even a wee-bit from the ocean of

contentment he is.

 

Thanks and praNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

___________________

 

advaitin, kuntimaddi sadananda

<kuntimaddisada> wrote:

> Here is my understanding.

>.....

> Desire can be sublimated by yoga and that is the teaching of Geeta.

> Sthitaprajna is the one whose desires are sublimated at the alter

of his

> love. Hence he has understood that he can be happy without

depending on

> anything other than himself - hence he revels in himself by

himself. But

> the self that he revels is ananda swaruupa. Hence happiness that

one

> gains even by fulfilling any desire is only through one self. WE are

> only tapping that happiness round about way by going after the

desire,

> while he found a direct source for happiness. Then where is the

need to

> go after anything object for happiness. He does not long for

anything or

> any person since he found peace with himself.

.....

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelu,

> ...

> My 2 cents.

> By the way, nice to see you here, KBS.

 

Thanks for your 2 Cents. They are worth much more.

Nice to be here too.

 

----

 

Dear Sri. Nair,

 

Thanks for your excellent posts on this thread. I enjoy your

articulation of these concepts.

 

----

 

Dear Sri. Sadananda,

 

Thanks for the lucid explanation. Your points are so apt.

 

----

 

Pranams and Best regards,

Ramachandra

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair"

<madathilnair> wrote:

>

>>

> There is no harm in legitimate enjoyment of life as long as we are

> rooted in Atma Dharma.

 

Namaste, Nair-ji and all.

 

Well said. You have hit the nail on the head. This is the point

which many critics of Vedanta miss to comprehend. Let me add a few

supplementary remarks to strengthen your statement.

 

*bhunjIthAH* : 'May you experience, enjoy' says the Ishopanishat in

its very first shloka. Of course it qualifies it by saying *tena

tyaktena bhunjIthAH* : 'Enjoy (the universe) by renouncing it'. The

enjoyment is in the establishing of oneself in the bliss of the

Atman.

 

Only in Vedanta does renunciation reach such a purposeful

consummation. This renunciation is not an alibi for indifference or

negligence of duties. Renunciation is of desires and of attachment

to the objects of desire. Krishna makes it very clear right in the

second chapter itself, though he speaks about renunciation later

more elaborately. *prajahAti yadA kAmAn* (II – 55) – one of Swami

Dayanandaji's ten key shlokas of the Gita. Renunciation is not

necessarily a physical renunciation of one's posssessions or

obligations. Possessions are by themselves not wrong; only

attachment to them is wrong. One who is attached to his desires, one

who hugs his desires, one who is overwhelmed by a desire for

desires, is called a kAma-kAmI in the Gita. A kAma-kAmI does not

obtain peace (II – 70). He goes again and again into the circle of

samsAra (IX – 21).

 

This subtle point of enjoyment through renunciation has to clearly

sink into our system, if we are to absorb anything from the Gita.

Renunciation is an attitude. Attitude is more important than the

physical act. The `enjoyment' mentioned in *bhunjIthAH* comes

*after* renunciation of attachment to the desires. How is this so?

 

This is so because, everything is His, there is nothing that is

ours. So there is nothing that we can call or covet as ours. That is

the `covet' idea referred to in the last quarter of the same shloka

in the Ishopanishat. The very idea of possession by us insignificant

mortals is ludicrous. In fact even saying that it is His is wrong.

It is He, precisely; not `His'! *IshA-vAsyaM idaM sarvaM*.

Everything is the Lord. *sarvaM khal-vidaM brahma*: Indeed all this

is brahman. This oftquoted truism from the upanishat is to be felt

in the bones and perceived as a way of life. The three steps of

shravaNa, manana and nidhidhyAsana are proposed so that this

theoretical knowledge may result in application. What this

application is, is what is said in the third and fourth quarters of

the same shloka of the Ishopanishat: *tena tyaktena bhunjIthAH* and

*mA gRRidhaH kasyasvit dhanaM : `Enjoy by renouncing it' and `Do

not covet another's wealth'.

 

Thus the two cornerstones (whether we learn it from the Gita or from

the Ishopanishat) of application to `enjoyment' of daily life are:

 

1. Renunciation of attachment and desire.

2. Non-covetousness of another's wealth.

 

PraNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

[Guest guest]

Namaste Madathil-Ji and Sada-JI:

 

In this context of "kaama" meaning "desire" - one can get a another

interesting example from Rg Veda's naasadiiya suukta -

 

kaamasdagre samavartataadhi | manaso retaH pratham.m yadaasiit ||

R^i. 129.4 ||

 

Meaning - First kaama gets formed as the seed in the mind.

 

Whether we apply this concept to towards global creation or use this

to explain someone's behavior.

 

Lord kR^iShNa gave all his explanation to arjuna just to remove his

doubts "to Do" or "not to do". That is why he asks him at the end

accidaj~naanasammohohaH prnaShTe dana.njaya || 18.72 || and arjuna

agree with a statement "nashTo mohaH" || 18.73 ||

 

Now just imagine if brahmaa never had a desire to create then

nothing could have been created. If arjuna was not confused and

kR^iShNa did not get the "DESIRE" to explain we would not have had

the "giitaa".

 

IMHO - Trying to understand and recognize what is at the root is the

most important thing or us as human beings. Interestingly the root

for everything is the "kaama - as that desire to find" !! All of

us have that "desire to share" what we believe to have understood

and then deliberate on it. If we loose that desire then there will

be no discussion and no satsaNga !

 

Regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

 

 

 

 

advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair"

<madathilnair> wrote:

>

> Namaste.

>

> Quite right Sadaji.

>

> He eats, listens to music and pauses to return the smile of

smiling

> flower. He does all this not like an 'enjoyer' or 'doer' like

other

> ordinary mortals. The food and music enjoyed and the smiling

flower

> are no more other than him and their phenomenal presence or

absence

> does not add or take away even a wee-bit from the ocean of

> contentment he is.

>

> Thanks and praNAms.

>

> Madathil Nair

> ___________________

>

> advaitin, kuntimaddi sadananda

> <kuntimaddisada> wrote:

> > Here is my understanding.

> >.....

> > Desire can be sublimated by yoga and that is the teaching of

Geeta.

> > Sthitaprajna is the one whose desires are sublimated at the

alter

> of his

> > love. Hence he has understood that he can be happy without

> depending on

> > anything other than himself - hence he revels in himself by

> himself. But

> > the self that he revels is ananda swaruupa. Hence happiness

that

> one

> > gains even by fulfilling any desire is only through one self. WE

are

> > only tapping that happiness round about way by going after the

> desire,

> > while he found a direct source for happiness. Then where is the

> need to

> > go after anything object for happiness. He does not long for

> anything or

> > any person since he found peace with himself.

> ....

[Guest guest]

Thanks Yaduji

 

We need to look at this from three levels.

>From Brahman's point it is absolute undifferentiated a sold mass of

consciousness-existence-bliss and there are no internal differences -

since having kama itself is a vikalpa as you said with the mind and

thought of desire etc.

 

At the second level when we bring in creation (which is in reality not

there) then we bring a total consciousness and total mind that it is

conscious of - That is the level of Iswara and with maaya shakti . That

is the level that is being referred in the desire for creation. -

tadaikshata - so2kaamayata - sa tapo2tapyata - He saw - He desired - He

performed penance before creation etc ) all are at the level of Iswara.

He himself has no desire for fulfillment but for fulfillment of the

totality. The samashhTi vasanaas propel the desire in the totality -

the seed for creation. The samashhTi vaasanas come from previous

creation-annihilation cycle, which has no beginning.

 

The third level is at jiiva level with ignorance - that is the where the

desire causes a problem of dependency of happiness on something other

than himself - And there exists the slavery and bondage. sarvaan kaamaan

prajahaati here refers to those kind of desire that enslave the

individual.

 

 

Hari OM!

Sadananda

 

--- ymoharir <ymoharir wrote:

>

> Namaste Madathil-Ji and Sada-JI:

>

> In this context of "kaama" meaning "desire" - one can get a another

> interesting example from Rg Veda's naasadiiya suukta -

>

> kaamasdagre samavartataadhi | manaso retaH pratham.m yadaasiit ||

> R^i. 129.4 ||

>

> Meaning - First kaama gets formed as the seed in the mind.

>

 

What you have is destiny and what you do with what you have is self-effort.

Future destiny is post destiny modified by your present action. You are not only

the prisoner of your past but master of your future. - Swami Chinmayananda

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

Kalidasa's description of the characteristics of Raja Dileepa (a

forefather of SriRama) in Raghuvamsha seem to describe a sthithaprajna.

Here are the 2 verses from the 1st chapter:

 

jugOpAtmAnamatrastO BEjE dharmamanAturah

agridhnurAdadE sOrthamasaktah suKamanvaBUt ||21||

 

Crude translation: While not being afraid, he used to protect himself.

Without disease, he served dharma-kIrti. While not being greedy, he

collected wealth (built up the treasury). While being disinterested, he

enjoyed the pleasures.

 

jnAnE mounam kshamA shaktou tyagE shlAGaviparyayah

guNA guNanubandhitvAt tasya saprasavA iva || 22 ||

 

Crude translation: While being wise, he would remain silent. While being

strong he would forgive others' mistakes. While being generous, he wasn't

interested in praises. This way gunas like jnana were together with

opposite gunas like mouna as if they were born together.

 

Best regards,

Ramachandra

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Interestingly the root

> for everything is the "kaama - as that desire to find" !! All of

> us have that "desire to share" what we believe to have understood

> and then deliberate on it. If we loose that desire then there will

> be no discussion and no satsaNga !

 

Namaste Yaduji,

Sri Ramakrishna used to say 'All desires are not kaama. As Gangajal is not

to

be equated with ordinary water, or lump-sugar not to be equated with

ordinary sweets ( It is crystal clear and leaves no residue), similarly the

desire for liberation is not a desire in the ordinary sense.'

Nothing wrong in having Sattvik desires.

 

Pranams to all advaitins

Ravi Shivde

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

maybe the Gita exist because the "Desire" to read it exist...to study

it...

maybe so, the "Desire" exist because the Gita exist....

 

Maybe Krishna exists because of Arjuna....

maybe Arjuna exist because there Is Krishna...

 

what if there is no (more) Desire....?

 

....maybe "everything" disappear in a "Nothingness".....?....

....out of an illusion?

 

wish you a desireless Being...

 

love and peace

 

Marc

[Guest guest]

namaste. arjuna's question in 2.54 how a sthitaprajna lives

and behaves, and Lord Krishna's answer to this question from

2.55 to 2.72 is of great importance to the whole humanity.

shri shankara used the word jIvanmukta and described both

in Atmabodha and VivekacUDAmaNi how such a person moves

around in the world. Vinoba Bhave, while discussing gItA,

said the whole essence of bhagavadgItA is in these 18 verses

(2.55 to 2.72). Many teachers of gItA suggest that even if

one cannot get to memory the whole of gItA, one should memorize

at least these eighteen verses and chant them regularly.

 

Because of the importance of the recognition of such a person,

Lord krishna came back again and again to this topic throughout

the gItA. BhagavadgItA may generally be divided into three ShaTkA-s

(three sections of six chapters each) dealing with karma (chapters

1 to 6), bhakti (chapters 7 to 12) and jnAnam (chapters 13 to 18).

In each section, Lord Krishna discusses the nature of sthitaprajna

in various contexts. In the first ShaTka, sthitaprajna is discussed

in 2.55 to 2.72. In the second ShaTka, discussion is about bhakta

from 12.13 to 12.20. In the third ShaTka, Lord Krishna discusses

what He calls triguNAtIta in 14.22 to 14.27. Still, it seems Lord

Krishna felt this may not be sufficient emphasis. He explains

jIvanmukti lakshaNa in chapter 5 (5.18 to 5.28), yogi lakshaNa

in chapter 6, and what is jnAnam in 13.8 to 13.13. Thus, we will

not be wrong in concluding that sthitaprajna lakshaNa is the main

topic of bahgavdgItA. Lord Krishna calls such a person by various

names - sthitaprajna, jnAni, bhakta, sannyAsi, yogi, jIvanmukta,

triguNAtIta, sAdhu, karmayogi - all carrying the same meaning.

 

regards

gummuluru murthy

--