Guest guest Posted April 18, 2005 Report Share Posted April 18, 2005 Hello, Thought I would share this one. Namaste Om Namah Shivaya Jason James Morgan The Official Web Site of the Shri Kanchi Kamakoti Peetham. Shri Kanchi Kamakoti Peetham was established by Sri Adi Sankara in the year 482 B.C. (see About and History) and has the distinction of an unbroken line of 70 Acharyas (spiritual leaders). On this web site, we present you with several aspects of Sanatana Dharma, Hinduism and Advaita Vedanta (running into several thousands of pages). www.kamakoti.org Part 22 of Hindu Dharma You may also like to look at the Hindu Dharma mailing service which emails a page from Hindu Dharma on a daily or weekly basis, and which would commence from a particular chapter/page of your preference. Truthfulness means mind and speech being well integrated. The wise say that speech being at variance with the mind is untruthfulness. Vangmanasyoh aikarupyam satyam God has given man the gift of speech so that he may give expression to his thoughts and feelings. If what we speak is at variance with what we think (with our mind) God will take away the faculty of speech from us in our next birth- that is we will be born in the animal kingdom. There are, as we have seen before, exceptions made in our sastras to the rule of absolute non-violence: in waging a war to preserve dharma, in offering animals in sacrifice. Are there similar exceptions to the rule of truthfulness? You will perhaps say none. But, as a matter of fact, there are. In a locality there must be a number of undesirable characters. Let us suppose that a certain citizen is annoyed with such characters and gives open expression to his anger. "He committed this outrage. That other man is guilty of such and such a crime, " he keeps recounting the misdeeds of the bad elements. In doing so he is being truthful, that is his speech and mind are in accord. But by giving expression to his feelings no purpose is served for neither he not the community is benefited. It is a futile kind of accord - that of his speech and mind - and it cannot be called truthfulness. Take the example of another person. He is full of evil thoughts and, if he gives expression to them, can he be called truthful? No. So truthfulness, now we see, is not merely accord between mind and speech. It means voicing good thoughts, thoughts that are beneficial and are liked by people: "Satyr bhuahitam priyam." Doing good through thought, word and deed is truthfulness. All that does ill is untruthfulness. It is not enough that you speak to a man what is good for him. You must speak with affection and the one to whom your words are addressed must find them acceptable. If you speak harshly nobody will listen to you even if you mean well. Thus words that serve no purpose do not constitute a truth. Your speech must be beneficial and, at the same time, capable of bringing happiness to the man to whom it is addressed. This is truthfulness. The wise say: "May he speak the truth. May his speech be pleasing. May he not speak the truth that is unpleasing. And may he not speak an untruth that is pleasing." Satyam brutapriyam bruyan- Na bruyatsatyamaptiyam Priyam ca nanrtam bruyad- A mind that is subject to desire and anger will not give rise to words that bespeak affection and cause well-being. Truthful words that create good are the product of a mind free from desire and anger. What is truth then? Thought and speech must be in accord; the mind must be serene; and the words spoken must do good to the speaker as well as the listener. For a man rooted in truth there is an avantara prayojana, an incidental benefit, gained from his speech. Since such a person habitually speaks the truth, his words will become the truth. Such a man will never deliberately utter a lie. But, if unwittingly or out of ignorance, he commits an error while speaking, that error will turn out to be the truth. I will tell you a story to illustrate this. In Tirukkadavur, in Tanjavur district, there was a great devotee of Amba called Abhiramibhatta. He would often go into an ecstasy of devotion to the goddess. During such times he would speak like one mad. Someone poisoned the ears of the raja Sarabhoji against him. "Abhiramibhatta is a drunkard," he told the ruler. "His devotion is a mere pretence." Sarabhoji wanted to find out the truth. So he went to see Abhiramibhatta in Tirukkadavur and asked him: "What day of the moon is it today?" The Bhatta was then lost in devotional joy and, thinking only of the radiant face of Amba which was like the moon, said that it was a full moon day. Actually it was the new moon. The raja concluded that what he had heard about the Bhatta must be true and said scornfully: "Is that so? Let us look up and see whether the full moon has risen." At that very moment the full moon did appear in the sky. Abhiramibhatta was steeped in truthfulness. By mistake he had spoken an untruth but Amba made it the truth by hurling her ear stud into the sky causing it to shine like the full moon. The blessings as well as the curses of great men come true because of the force of their innate and habitual truthfulness. This is the "incidental benefit" they derive from their habit of truthfulness. But truthfulness must not be practised with the deliberate intention that what one speaks must come true. Power such as this is earned unintentionally and unconsciously. A man will purify himself completely if he performs the forty samskaras and adheres to principles like non-violence, truthfulness, non-covetousness, cleanliness and also controls his senses. He will then develop the maturity and wisdom to find out who in truth he is, who Isvara is and what the Ultimate Reality is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2005 Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 Namaste Jason James Morgan, thank you for your message..... as far i know and feel is, that "truthfulness" is not so much related to time.... means...to a time-related-mind... as long one make identification with the body-mind- intellect....the "truthfulness" talk and words are related to the "individual" being.....and so...to a "dual world" you wrote: "God has given man the gift of speech so that he may give expression > to his thoughts and feelings. If what we speak is at variance with > what we think (with our mind) God will take away the faculty of > speech from us in our next birth- that is we will be born in the > animal kingdom." maybe doesn't matter how much this "variance of speach with what we think" is......as long there is a dual ego mind "thinking and talking"....there is a "relative" truthfulness only... ....i thought that for an advaitin....there is only one "kingdom".... ......the Self....Brahman.... Regards love and peace Marc -- In advaitin, "Jason James Morgan" <jasonjamesmorgan@d...> wrote: > > > Hello, > > Thought I would share this one. > > Namaste > Om Namah Shivaya > Jason James Morgan > > > The Official Web Site of the Shri Kanchi Kamakoti Peetham. > Shri Kanchi Kamakoti Peetham was established by Sri Adi Sankara in > the year 482 B.C. (see About and History) and has the distinction of > an unbroken line of 70 Acharyas (spiritual leaders). On this web > site, we present you with several aspects of Sanatana Dharma, > Hinduism and Advaita Vedanta (running into several thousands of > pages). > > > www.kamakoti.org > > Part 22 of Hindu Dharma > > You may also like to look at the Hindu Dharma mailing service which > emails a page from Hindu Dharma on a daily or weekly basis, and which > would commence from a particular chapter/page of your preference. > > Truthfulness means mind and speech being well integrated. The wise > say that speech being at variance with the mind is untruthfulness. > Vangmanasyoh aikarupyam satyam > > God has given man the gift of speech so that he may give expression > to his thoughts and feelings. If what we speak is at variance with > what we think (with our mind) God will take away the faculty of > speech from us in our next birth- that is we will be born in the > animal kingdom. > > There are, as we have seen before, exceptions made in our sastras to > the rule of absolute non-violence: in waging a war to preserve > dharma, in offering animals in sacrifice. Are there similar > exceptions to the rule of truthfulness? You will perhaps say none. > But, as a matter of fact, there are. > > In a locality there must be a number of undesirable characters. Let > us suppose that a certain citizen is annoyed with such characters and > gives open expression to his anger. "He committed this outrage. That > other man is guilty of such and such a crime, " he keeps recounting > the misdeeds of the bad elements. In doing so he is being truthful, > that is his speech and mind are in accord. But by giving expression > to his feelings no purpose is served for neither he not the community > is benefited. It is a futile kind of accord - that of his speech and > mind - and it cannot be called truthfulness. > > Take the example of another person. He is full of evil thoughts and, > if he gives expression to them, can he be called truthful? No. > So truthfulness, now we see, is not merely accord between mind and > speech. It means voicing good thoughts, thoughts that are beneficial > and are liked by people: "Satyr bhuahitam priyam." > > Doing good through thought, word and deed is truthfulness. All that > does ill is untruthfulness. It is not enough that you speak to a man > what is good for him. You must speak with affection and the one to > whom your words are addressed must find them acceptable. If you speak > harshly nobody will listen to you even if you mean well. Thus words > that serve no purpose do not constitute a truth. Your speech must be > beneficial and, at the same time, capable of bringing happiness to > the man to whom it is addressed. This is truthfulness. > > The wise say: "May he speak the truth. May his speech be pleasing. > May he not speak the truth that is unpleasing. And may he not speak > an untruth that is pleasing." > > Satyam brutapriyam bruyan- > Na bruyatsatyamaptiyam > Priyam ca nanrtam bruyad- > > A mind that is subject to desire and anger will not give rise to > words that bespeak affection and cause well-being. Truthful words > that create good are the product of a mind free from desire and > anger. > > What is truth then? Thought and speech must be in accord; the mind > must be serene; and the words spoken must do good to the speaker as > well as the listener. > > For a man rooted in truth there is an avantara prayojana, an > incidental benefit, gained from his speech. Since such a person > habitually speaks the truth, his words will become the truth. Such a > man will never deliberately utter a lie. But, if unwittingly or out > of ignorance, he commits an error while speaking, that error will > turn out to be the truth. I will tell you a story to illustrate this. > > In Tirukkadavur, in Tanjavur district, there was a great devotee of > Amba called Abhiramibhatta. He would often go into an ecstasy of > devotion to the goddess. During such times he would speak like one > mad. Someone poisoned the ears of the raja Sarabhoji against > him. "Abhiramibhatta is a drunkard," he told the ruler. "His devotion > is a mere pretence." Sarabhoji wanted to find out the truth. So he > went to see Abhiramibhatta in Tirukkadavur and asked him: "What day > of the moon is it today?" The Bhatta was then lost in devotional joy > and, thinking only of the radiant face of Amba which was like the > moon, said that it was a full moon day. Actually it was the new moon. > The raja concluded that what he had heard about the Bhatta must be > true and said scornfully: "Is that so? Let us look up and see whether > the full moon has risen." > At that very moment the full moon did appear in the sky. > > Abhiramibhatta was steeped in truthfulness. By mistake he had spoken > an untruth but Amba made it the truth by hurling her ear stud into > the sky causing it to shine like the full moon. The blessings as well > as the curses of great men come true because of the force of their > innate and habitual truthfulness. This is the "incidental benefit" > they derive from their habit of truthfulness. But truthfulness must > not be practised with the deliberate intention that what one speaks > must come true. Power such as this is earned unintentionally and > unconsciously. > > A man will purify himself completely if he performs the forty > samskaras and adheres to principles like non-violence, truthfulness, > non-covetousness, cleanliness and also controls his senses. He will > then develop the maturity and wisdom to find out who in truth he is, > who Isvara is and what the Ultimate Reality is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Hello, I find that savikalpa samdhi is to me the movie screen, and not and actor on the screen. As such, one can be without thought and the movie goes on. Or one can use discrimination, and play the role, adopt and ego, and not be decived be the suspension of disbelief. This is not being decieved by parabdha, and the destruction of vasanas, thus the "sage with no mind" in savikalpa samdhi, and not aware of thoughts. Adopting an ego is the utilization of discrimation as rightly taught by gnani. Parabdha or momentum is like the weather(group momentum). Discrimination is the choosing of garments to suite that weather. The allegory of the elephant master and the disciple. The disciple learnt the non-dual truth from his Guru. The guru told the realization, that everything is God. And to see God in everything. The disciple was thus doing sadhana along a small, secluded road one day. In a wild dash, this elephant master comes running down the road. As the elephant master runs by the disciple, he shouts to run for your life, as his elephant is throwing a tentatantrum. The disciple lazily opens his eyes and thinks it is just God chasing the elephant master, and figures his sadhana is more important, and will of course be seen such by God. The elephant bull comes galloping down the road, and promptly grabs the disciple and tosses him into a tree. The elephant resumes his activity galloping down the road. The disciple is soon rescued from his unconsciousess state and brought to a hut in the village. He calls for his master, and a messenger goes to find the reputed Guru. The Guru soon comes for the disciple. The Guru asks what happen, and the disciples relates all. The Guru, takes on a fatherly compationate roll and says "You hear well what I said about God being all. So why did you not listen to the Elaphant Master God, and run?". The disciple had lots of time in his recovery, to think about this valuable, hard fought lesson he had learned, regarding discrimination. Namaste Om Namah Shivaya Jason James Morgan advaitin, "dennis_travis33" <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > > Namaste Jason James Morgan, > > thank you for your message..... > > as far i know and feel is, that "truthfulness" is not so much > related to time.... > means...to a time-related-mind... > > > as long one make identification with the body-mind- > intellect....the "truthfulness" talk and words are related to > the "individual" being.....and so...to a "dual world" > > you wrote: > "God has given man the gift of speech so that he may give expression > > to his thoughts and feelings. If what we speak is at variance with > > what we think (with our mind) God will take away the faculty of > > speech from us in our next birth- that is we will be born in the > > animal kingdom." > > maybe doesn't matter how much this "variance of speach with what we > think" is......as long there is a dual ego mind "thinking and > talking"....there is a "relative" truthfulness only... > > ...i thought that for an advaitin....there is only one "kingdom".... > .....the Self....Brahman.... > > Regards > > love and peace > > Marc -- In advaitin, "Jason James Morgan" > <jasonjamesmorgan@d...> wrote: > > > > > > Hello, > > > > Thought I would share this one. > > > > Namaste > > Om Namah Shivaya > > Jason James Morgan > > > > > > The Official Web Site of the Shri Kanchi Kamakoti Peetham. > > Shri Kanchi Kamakoti Peetham was established by Sri Adi Sankara in > > the year 482 B.C. (see About and History) and has the distinction > of > > an unbroken line of 70 Acharyas (spiritual leaders). On this web > > site, we present you with several aspects of Sanatana Dharma, > > Hinduism and Advaita Vedanta (running into several thousands of > > pages). > > > > > > www.kamakoti.org > > > > Part 22 of Hindu Dharma > > > > You may also like to look at the Hindu Dharma mailing service which > > emails a page from Hindu Dharma on a daily or weekly basis, and > which > > would commence from a particular chapter/page of your preference. > > > > Truthfulness means mind and speech being well integrated. The wise > > say that speech being at variance with the mind is untruthfulness. > > Vangmanasyoh aikarupyam satyam > > > > God has given man the gift of speech so that he may give expression > > to his thoughts and feelings. If what we speak is at variance with > > what we think (with our mind) God will take away the faculty of > > speech from us in our next birth- that is we will be born in the > > animal kingdom. > > > > There are, as we have seen before, exceptions made in our sastras > to > > the rule of absolute non-violence: in waging a war to preserve > > dharma, in offering animals in sacrifice. Are there similar > > exceptions to the rule of truthfulness? You will perhaps say none. > > But, as a matter of fact, there are. > > > > In a locality there must be a number of undesirable characters. Let > > us suppose that a certain citizen is annoyed with such characters > and > > gives open expression to his anger. "He committed this outrage. > That > > other man is guilty of such and such a crime, " he keeps recounting > > the misdeeds of the bad elements. In doing so he is being truthful, > > that is his speech and mind are in accord. But by giving expression > > to his feelings no purpose is served for neither he not the > community > > is benefited. It is a futile kind of accord - that of his speech > and > > mind - and it cannot be called truthfulness. > > > > Take the example of another person. He is full of evil thoughts > and, > > if he gives expression to them, can he be called truthful? No. > > So truthfulness, now we see, is not merely accord between mind and > > speech. It means voicing good thoughts, thoughts that are > beneficial > > and are liked by people: "Satyr bhuahitam priyam." > > > > Doing good through thought, word and deed is truthfulness. All that > > does ill is untruthfulness. It is not enough that you speak to a > man > > what is good for him. You must speak with affection and the one to > > whom your words are addressed must find them acceptable. If you > speak > > harshly nobody will listen to you even if you mean well. Thus words > > that serve no purpose do not constitute a truth. Your speech must > be > > beneficial and, at the same time, capable of bringing happiness to > > the man to whom it is addressed. This is truthfulness. > > > > The wise say: "May he speak the truth. May his speech be pleasing. > > May he not speak the truth that is unpleasing. And may he not speak > > an untruth that is pleasing." > > > > Satyam brutapriyam bruyan- > > Na bruyatsatyamaptiyam > > Priyam ca nanrtam bruyad- > > > > A mind that is subject to desire and anger will not give rise to > > words that bespeak affection and cause well-being. Truthful words > > that create good are the product of a mind free from desire and > > anger. > > > > What is truth then? Thought and speech must be in accord; the mind > > must be serene; and the words spoken must do good to the speaker as > > well as the listener. > > > > For a man rooted in truth there is an avantara prayojana, an > > incidental benefit, gained from his speech. Since such a person > > habitually speaks the truth, his words will become the truth. Such > a > > man will never deliberately utter a lie. But, if unwittingly or out > > of ignorance, he commits an error while speaking, that error will > > turn out to be the truth. I will tell you a story to illustrate > this. > > > > In Tirukkadavur, in Tanjavur district, there was a great devotee of > > Amba called Abhiramibhatta. He would often go into an ecstasy of > > devotion to the . During such times he would speak like one > > mad. Someone poisoned the ears of the raja Sarabhoji against > > him. "Abhiramibhatta is a drunkard," he told the ruler. "His > devotion > > is a mere pretence." Sarabhoji wanted to find out the truth. So he > > went to see Abhiramibhatta in Tirukkadavur and asked him: "What day > > of the moon is it today?" The Bhatta was then lost in devotional > joy > > and, thinking only of the radiant face of Amba which was like the > > moon, said that it was a full moon day. Actually it was the new > moon. > > The raja concluded that what he had heard about the Bhatta must be > > true and said scornfully: "Is that so? Let us look up and see > whether > > the full moon has risen." > > At that very moment the full moon did appear in the sky. > > > > Abhiramibhatta was steeped in truthfulness. By mistake he had > spoken > > an untruth but Amba made it the truth by hurling her ear stud into > > the sky causing it to shine like the full moon. The blessings as > well > > as the curses of great men come true because of the force of their > > innate and habitual truthfulness. This is the "incidental benefit" > > they derive from their habit of truthfulness. But truthfulness must > > not be practised with the deliberate intention that what one speaks > > must come true. Power such as this is earned unintentionally and > > unconsciously. > > > > A man will purify himself completely if he performs the forty > > samskaras and adheres to principles like non-violence, > truthfulness, > > non-covetousness, cleanliness and also controls his senses. He will > > then develop the maturity and wisdom to find out who in truth he > is, > > who Isvara is and what the Ultimate Reality is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.