Fwd: Nirvikalpa Samadhi and Yoga Nidra etc

[Guest guest]

Tony OClery wrote:

>

> advaitajnana, "Tony OClery" <aoclery>

> wrote:

>

> How can you tell if your samadhi was Nirvikalpa or Yoga Nidra? In one

> there is no mind operating and in the other it is in abeyance. As

> there is no memory associated with either it is no doubt hard to

> tell.

 

It is simple Tony. Coming out of Yoga Nidra, you are awake to the world

seeing the yoga nidra as a separate experience that happened to you.

When you come out of Nirvikalpa Samadhi, you see that you are still in

Nirvikalpa Samadhi! :-).

 

Oh my God! It is only Me!

 

Nirvikalpa is not separate from you, it is you. Our nature is

Nirvikalpa. What is Nirvikalpa Samadhi? It is a fancy term for

Self-Knowledge, Self-Realization, Self-Recognition, etc. In the absence

of thoughts, when the mind is merged in the Heart, the state is pure

Sat-Chit-Ananda. Beyond memory, beyond the world, pure in itself,

Self-Knowing. Coming out, still the same essential being...except for

thoughts, perceptions, experiences, etc. The mind rooted in the

essential being is really the essential being rooted in itself.......the

samadhi then becomes Sahaj, despite the appearance of contamination with

thoughts.

[Guest guest]

advaitin, Harsha wrote:

>>

> It is simple Tony. Coming out of Yoga Nidra, you are awake to the

world

> seeing the yoga nidra as a separate experience that happened to

you.

> When you come out of Nirvikalpa Samadhi, you see that you are

still in

> Nirvikalpa Samadhi! :-).

>

> Oh my God! It is only Me!

>

> Nirvikalpa is not separate from you, it is you. Our nature is

> Nirvikalpa. What is Nirvikalpa Samadhi? It is a fancy term for

> Self-Knowledge, Self-Realization, Self-Recognition, etc. In the

absence

> of thoughts, when the mind is merged in the Heart, the state is

pure

> Sat-Chit-Ananda. Beyond memory, beyond the world, pure in itself,

> Self-Knowing. Coming out, still the same essential being...except

for

> thoughts, perceptions, experiences, etc. The mind rooted in the

> essential being is really the essential being rooted in

itself.......the

> samadhi then becomes Sahaj, despite the appearance of

contamination with

> thoughts.

 

Namaste H,

 

This is where I differ in opinion. Sat-Cit-Ananda are to

me 'qualities' as Ramana would say and does say. Qualities and

attributes are the same, so we are talking of something experiential

whether it seems to be universal or not. i.e. Saguna Brahman.

 

Whereas with me I consider Saguna Brahman, The Self, Sat-Cit-Ananda

or anything to do with this creation, as unreal and never having

ever happened, even in appearance.

 

So to me the rope and snake is total unhappening, both didn't happen

in the first place...Saguna is Self Knowing and therefore is

unreal.......Just Nir guna........I suppose the problem lies in that

we attribute validity to the world and what we sense. Sankara

says 'it is real whilst one is in it', but one doesn't really have

to believe it is real. Even though it seems very painful at times.

 

As you know even early on I was impressed with Ramana's Ajata

theory, which he says is the most truthful. However reading the

Sages, who say it all disappears on bodiless moksha-it can never

have happened. It is inexplicable or even understandable with a

mind......Yes we are always in Nirvikalpa Samadhi....ONS...Tony.

[Guest guest]

_____

 

advaitin [advaitin] On Behalf

Of Tony OClery

Wednesday, April 20, 2005 4:55 PM

advaitin

Re: Fwd: Nirvikalpa

Samadhi and Yoga Nidra etc

 

 

 

Namaste H,

 

This is where I differ in opinion. Sat-Cit-Ananda are to

me 'qualities' as Ramana would say and does say. Qualities and

attributes are the same, so we are talking of something experiential

whether it seems to be universal or not. i.e. Saguna Brahman.

 

 

 

******************************************************************

 

These are all debates for scholars Tony. Saguna and Nirguna are the same

thing. The so called “Impersonal Brahman” turns out to be one’s very own

being. One can’t get anymore personal than that!

Sat-Chit-Ananda-Nityam-Poornum. One without a second, whose nature is that

of Existence, Consciousness, Ananda. That which is Whole, Complete, and

Eternal, that is our nature, not something to be observed by the mind as a

separate thing, but That which shines through the mind, that which is

Self-Existent in the absence of mind and the presence of mind. That which

Knows It Self, not as one knowing another but as One whose very nature is

that of Self-Knowing. That is our nature. Self is devoid and empty of all

things, thoughts, concepts, perceptions, experiences, possibilities. This is

indicated by the Ajatavada doctrine. Yet, the nature of the Self is that of

utter and complete fullness. That is indicated by the terms

Sat-Chit-Ananda-Nityam-Poornum. Because the mind cannot fully grasp it,

different perspectives are given in the scriptures. These perspectives have

meaning only in relationship to each other. Because Self truly has no frame

of reference, being One without a second, all doctrines are essentially

empty of meaning.

 

 

 

Love to all

 

Harsha

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Harsha" wrote:

> _____

> These are all debates for scholars Tony. Saguna and Nirguna are

the same

> thing. The so called "Impersonal Brahman" turns out to be one's

very own

> being. One can't get anymore personal than that!

 

 

Namste Harsha,

 

I agree that Saguna and Nirguna are the same thing, for Nirguna is

the truth. There is no Saguna or manifestation of mind or creation.

There is no 'Being', for that is a modification, and there is no

being that is our inner being. All this didn't happen, for where is

it on bodiless moksha or deep sleep? Sat-Cit-Ananda is Saguna, which

doesn't exist for they are descriptive attributes, as with purna.

There is nothing to be full, full of what? There is,( a bad verb),

only the Unbecoming/Unbeing Nirguna Brahman.

 

I know to many this is unpalatable,to some, for many wish to hang on

to attributes such as Love, God, Sat-Cit-Ananda etc. But in the end

we have to let them go, along with such ideas as eternity etc.

 

There is nobody helping us, there is nobody doing

anything....ONS...Tony.

[Guest guest]

NonDualPhil, "Tony OClery" <aoclery>

wrote:

 

NonDualPhil, "clydegrossman"

<clydegrossman@a...> wrote:

>

> NonDualPhil, "Tony OClery" <aoclery>

wrote:

> >

> > There is nobody helping us, there is nobody doing

> > anything....ONS...Tony.

>

> cg: If you truly believe that - why do you write and to whom do

you

> write?

 

Namaste,

 

Not only that, I chant mantras, do meditation, read Gurus and texts

and study. In fact I carry on with my Sadhana, or purification

process. So that all my imaginary samskaras and vasanas can be

eliminated for the sun to shine through these clouds. The Sun is

shining all the time. Sankara says it is real whilst one is in it,

but

one doesn't have to believe it is real. The lower mind likes ritual

and all that stuff anyway.

I'm quite superstitious, and follow, astral travel, obe s, telepathy

and all kinds of stuff. This doesn't alter the fact that it never

happened just because my lower mind thinks it

did..........ONS...Tony.

--- End forwarded message ---

[Guest guest]

Namaste Tony,

 

you write:

"I'm quite superstitious, and follow, astral travel, obe s, telepathy

> and all kinds of stuff. This doesn't alter the fact that it never

> happened just because my lower mind thinks it

> did..........ONS...Tony."

 

you talk about "my lower mind"....

 

are you sure that you are this body-mind-intellect.....and so...that

it is "Your" mind thinking?....

 

maybe there is only one "mind" existing....which include

all "Manifestations".....means....all of us.....everything

 

maybe the screen on which this "Manifestations" are percieved is

called "Unmanifestation".....or for some others..."Brahman"

 

Regards

 

love and peace

 

Marc

 

 

 

advaitin, "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote:

>

>

> NonDualPhil, "Tony OClery" <aoclery>

> wrote:

>

> NonDualPhil, "clydegrossman"

> <clydegrossman@a...> wrote:

> >

> > NonDualPhil, "Tony OClery" <aoclery>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > There is nobody helping us, there is nobody doing

> > > anything....ONS...Tony.

> >

> > cg: If you truly believe that - why do you write and to whom do

> you

> > write?

>

> Namaste,

>

> Not only that, I chant mantras, do meditation, read Gurus and texts

> and study. In fact I carry on with my Sadhana, or purification

> process. So that all my imaginary samskaras and vasanas can be

> eliminated for the sun to shine through these clouds. The Sun is

> shining all the time. Sankara says it is real whilst one is in it,

> but

> one doesn't have to believe it is real. The lower mind likes ritual

> and all that stuff anyway.

> I'm quite superstitious, and follow, astral travel, obe s,

telepathy

> and all kinds of stuff. This doesn't alter the fact that it never

> happened just because my lower mind thinks it

> did..........ONS...Tony.

> --- End forwarded message ---