'Gita in Daily Life' -- An appeal to the silent majority

[Guest guest]

Note from the List Moderator:

If there is a will, there will be a way! Mumbai has plenty of institutions such

as the Ramakrishna Mission, Chinmaya Mission, etc. For example, access

http://www.chinmaya.org/ you can get information about classes held in different

parts of Mumbai. We are hoping some of the list members from Mumbai (there are

quite a few we know) would come forward and provide you with the necessary

information)

 

Namaste.

 

My name is mayank gandhi and i was wondering if there was anyone in Mumbai

here. I have not too much knowledge of Vedas and Upanishads and would like

to correct that. If there is someone here who can spare some time, i would

love to go and learn some of it and clarify my thoughts.

 

Love

 

Mayank

 

----

 

advaitin

[Guest guest]

Namaste all.

 

First let me announce that Shri Raghava Kaluri has accepted

to continue ‘Gita in Daily Life’ into May also. The

Moderators thank him for the same.

 

The subject of ‘Gita in Daily Life’ was expected to pull

out the silent majority from their silence. This is one

subject where every one could have something to say either

in the form of questions or in the form of comments. But

looking back at the posts in the month of April, it appears

a large number of members would like to sit back and enjoy

what a few regulars write rather than venture into

something themselves. The Moderators would like to appeal

to the silent ones to make a little more effort to shake

off their silence, and their shyness if there is one?

 

When I said there could be questions and comments, I had

in mind almost every one. At every level of one’s exposure

or understanding or evolution, one is bound to have

questions, ideas and opinions, particularly on the subject

of Gita in Daily Life. Only by raising them we would be

able to contribute to the activity of promoting general

philosophical literacy and a consequent urge to move into a

spiritual quest. In the fond hope of catalysing more

activity, I am listing below a number of possible questions

that could usually arise, so that, these – and similar ones

that may be raised - may become springboards for discussion

if there are enough takers. And again, for the purpose of

clear thinking, I am partitioning the questions into five

levels.

 

Level Zero: This is the bottommost level. This level of

questioners are mostly outsiders to Hindu Thought, Vision

and Practice. But it includes also all those from within

the Hindu fold, but, who, due to various reasons, have

very little credit in terms of knowledge of Hinduism and

much less, of the Gita.

 

Level One: All those who have been exposed, mostly by

osmosis, to the ways of Hindu life. Over the years vague

questions have arisen in their minds from what they hear

vis-a-vis what they see, as Hindu daily life. But they

have not found any one who is willing and able to answer

their questions or, if they ever found one such, either as

a person or a book, they have not had enough time to spare

on the quest. Or, perhaps their curiosity was not so

intense.

 

Level Two: This is the large majority of sincere seekers.

They know something already. They are trying to learn more

through books and people. But either opportunities have

been few or the ocean of samsara has been so overpowering

that they could not satisfy their desire to know and

understand the upward path to spirituality. It is our

responsibility on the advaitin list to attract many such

into the membership of the list by catering to the needs

and thirst of such seekers.

 

Level Three: This is the level of those who have listened

to Gita expositions carefully, though only off and on. They

have probably studied the Gita in parts and are very eager

to learn it with meanings and commentaries line by line.

They are ready to grab every opportunity to learn. As a

result they do know quite a bit. But most of it seems to

add up only to more confusions in their mind and still

more unanswered questions.

 

Level Four: This is the topmost level. This consists of

those who have read the Gita several times and have studied

it with meanings and commentaries. Probably they are

themselves capable of talking about it knowledgeably. Most

of them are in fact regular participants on our advaitin

list and similar lists.

--\

--

 

Possible Questions and comments at the different levels:

(Each question is given a number of three digits –For

instance: ‘xyz’ means serial number ‘yz’ in level ‘x’).

 

 

001. Your Gita perhaps is just a scripture like any other

scripture of religion in general. How do you know it is

historically true?

002. I hear it has a lot of philosophy in it and it was

spoken on the battlefield. Is the battlefield the right

location for philosophical discussion?

003. How can a conversation on the battlefield have

anything to do with Daily Life?

004. What has a philosophical book got to do with daily

life that worries more about the cost of living in this

live world than about what happens after death?

 

 

101. If Gita has so many good things as is claimed, I

don’t see it being followed, even by those who hold it as

their scripture.

102. When one reads the Gita one gets the impression, that

unlike Jesus who was a great colossus of humility, Krishna

seems to be too self-conscious and he assumes too much for

himself. One would expect a messiah of religion to be more

humble.

103. I have heard that once Swami Vivekananda advised a

student to go and play on the field for the improvement of

his health rather than keep closeted with the Gita, which

he is not likely to understand. Is it true? Does this make

sense?

104. Why was Arjuna chosen by the Lord to give his Gita,

rather than Dharmputra himself?

105. Desires are supposed to be wrong. Then what about my

desire to attain moksha?

106. Is morality relative or absolute, according to the

Gita?

107. Does Gita anywhere say that Bhakti is necessary? Does

it mean that God wants to be pampered? Is not bhakti just a

pampering of a personal God?

108. What is the opinion of the Gita on Suicide? On

Mercy-killing? On Divorce?

109. I have heard that there is a school of thought which

believes that only the first three chapters (karma yoga)

constituted the real bhagavad gita and that the rest is all

a interpolation. How far is this true?

 

201. Why are there so many commentaries, said to be

differing from one another very substantially?

202. The logic of the Gita seems to be based on the caste

system and the fact that Arjuna was a kshatriya. Does this

not validate the caste system? Or does it?

203. If Krishna is the Sutradhari of the whole universe,

why does He admit Tsunamis to happen?

204. If the Absolute is nameless and formless, then Krishna

can’t be the Absolute. But He talks as if He is the

Absolute, sometimes. Can the Absolute talk?

205. There is a concept called Actionlessness in the Gita.

Is it practical in our daily life?

206. ‘My devotee will not perish’, says Krishna. Is it true

that devotees don’t perish and suffer? Sufferings of any

one in daily life, whether devotee or not, are well-known

to be always there.

207. We are supposed to be detached towards the fruit of

action. Then how can a manager of a company motivate his

employees?

208. If faith is the bottomline of the Gita, then why all

this posture of logic, philosophy and rationale?

209. If Gita is termed to be a shastra that teaches about

brahman, why does it say somewhere that you have to learn

it from an enlightened person?

210. What is Gita’s final verdict on ‘Personal God’ and

‘Impersonal Absolute’?

211. How can you argue that Gita is not advocating

violence?

 

301. Tilak says Karma; Gandhi says non-violence; Ramanuja

says Bhakti; Aurobindo says Integral Yoga, whatever that

means. Advaita seems to say Maya. Is there any integrated

presentation?

302. If He is the One who inspires all our actions from

within, does He inspire our bad thoughts also? What does

the Gita have to say on this?

303. PrakRti is said to be dominant over man. Then why

blame him for his failings?

304. How can Bhakti coexist with advaita?

305. Does Gita ever extol the Gayatri, the foremost mantra

of Hinduism?

306. If Atman is unaffected by any change, how can it

‘enjoy’ or ‘bear witness to’ the pleasure of sleep?It

should not make any difference between sleep and non-sleep.

307. Whenever it talks of bhakti, Gita talks only about an

ideal b hakta. What is the bhakti that will suit an average

seeker in his daily life?

 

401. How do you resolve the contradiction between verse IX-

4 and IX – 5.?

402. Very often we are told that Shankara is not advocating

any synthesis of Karma, Bhakti and Jnana. Then what is his

attitude to Karma and Bhakti?

403. In Ch.III, there is a shloka which says that Gunas are

conflicting with Gunas. What does it mean?

404. How clear are the commentators about the question: Is

caste a condition of birth or a condition of one’s gunas?

--\

-------

Let us hope that many of our silent members would break

their silence. They can in fact add more questions to the

above list. If one does not know to what level one’s

question belongs, then the question is most probably of

level one. If one has some vague idea where the question

belongs then the question belongs to level two!

 

PraNAms to all advaitins on the list.

profvk

[Guest guest]

Prof. VK ji,

 

Thanks for your post. I always hesitated to ask

because I had never really read any commentary by an

advaitin though I have now begun to read Swami

Chinmayanandaji's commentary. However, I did once read

Prabhupada's commentary and so I do have one question

(210 in your list) - What is the Gita's final verdict

on a personal God vs an impersonal Absolute? To me, an

impersonal philosophy does sound more refined and

appealing, but at the same time I believe that

intellectual appeal is not a good yardstick in

spiritual things. I also understand that other

scriptures like the Upanishads are thoroughly

impersonalist/non-dualist. But I would like to know

what stand the Gita takes.

 

Thanks!

Mayuresh.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste dear Advaitins,

 

Severe back ache which develops when I sit straight for even thirty minutes, has

been coming in the way of my being able to do much typing. However,

Professorji’s posting has “pulled” me out and I am trying to say a few words on

one or two particular questions he has mentioned for us to dwell on.

 

I must say, he has put before all of us enough material for clarifying our

doubts on various aspects covered in Gita. My grateful thanks and Pranams to

him.

 

“105. Desires are supposed to be wrong. Then what about my desire to attain

moksha?”

 

IMHO, desires are not wrong. What about a mother’s desire to feed her baby? Is

it wrong? We do have many such desires.

 

“Ichha Shakti” is given to me as also “Gnana Shakti” and “Kriya Shakti” by

Iswara. There is no defect in His creation. If “desire” was wrong, Iswara would

not have given Ichha Shakti to me. Whatever is given to me by Him is for my

benefit only.

 

Desire (IMHO again) is not exactly Kama. Kama is desire plus something. Kama

drives one to seek pleasure. Pleasure is not exactly happiness.

 

When I feel hungry, I desire to have food. What is wrong? I am not seeking

pleasure by eating food, and I do it only to appease my hunger. However, if I

seek a five-star dinner to appease my hunger, then it amounts to Kama. There I

seek pleasure.

 

Though Icha Shakti is given to me, at the same time Gnana Shakti and Kriya Shaty

are also given to me. Desire takes place based on knowledge, but it is upto one

to entertain it or not. Dharma comes here. If any desire is keeping with Dharma,

IMHO, that desire is not wrong, i.e. it does not go against Universal Dharma,

and again fulfillment of that desire should also keep with Dharma. Dharma is

universal and no action to fulfill any desire, even if the particular desire is

keeping with Dharma, if it clashes with Dharma should be taken.

 

Any desire for Preyas (pleasure) is wrong because ultimately, fulfillment of

such desires does not help us on “getting” what exactly we are seeking. Moksha

does not bring us pleasure, it brings us Shreyas, i.e. it helps us to get what

we are really seeking. Desire for Moksha is there with everybody, whether one

knows it or not. As a matter of fact, we are all actually seeking Shreyas, but

due to Ignorance about our own Self, which is Happiness itself, we are running

after Preyas.

 

“203. If Krishna is the Sutradhari of the whole universe, why does He admit

Tsunamis to happen?”

 

Tsunami takes place following His Order. Everything is His Order. There must be

some reason (cause) for Tsunami taking place. His Order covers not people

only/including animals etc., who suffer from such Tsunami. I remember a

conversation which took place while I was traveling from Madras to Calcutta by

train quite some time ago. Someone was reading a newspaper and pointing a news

item, he said “Look at this news. A big granite slab fell from the roof of

Tirupathi temple kitchen. Fortunately nobody got injured”. He remarked “The Lord

cannot look after even His house and how do we expect Him to do it for us?” I

told him, “It is natural for a granite slab to fall down as a building gets old.

Just because, it is Lord’s Kitchen, He cannot go against that Dharma or Natural

Order, because he is not only the author of the Dharmas, but he is also the one

who sees that Dharmas continue without any interruptions. It is we who break not

only His Dharmas but also the Dharmas like rules and

regulations created by us for our own benefit when it is convenient to us.”

 

Hari Om

 

 

 

 

 

 

"V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk wrote:Namaste all.

 

First let me announce that Shri Raghava Kaluri has accepted

to continue ‘Gita in Daily Life’ into May also. The

Moderators thank him for the same.

 

The subject of ‘Gita in Daily Life’ was expected to pull

out the silent majority from their silence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

PraNAm Professorji!

 

After that call from you, I guess I cannot remain silent. In my

defence, I was only trying not to expose my ignorance :-) But I

thought I would mention one aspect of the Gita that to me as a

beginner, has been very meaningful.

 

As part of a study group, I have been viewing the video lectures of

Swami CinmayAnanda over the past couple of years. We have just

completed Ch. 11. Through these, one thing that really struck me is

the hopeful tone of the Gita. It is so kind to beginners. Every

chapter has a verse here or there that one can readily put into

practice or a verse that gives one hope and assurance. Verse 4:36 is

a good example of this:

 

api chetasi pApebhyah sarvebhyah pApa krttamah |

sarvam jnAnaplavenaiva vrjinam santariShyasi ||

 

"Even if you are the most sinful of all sinners, yet you shall

verily cross all sins by the raft of 'Knowledge'"

(From Swami CinmayAnanda's commentary).

 

 

Harih Om!

Neelakantan

[Guest guest]

Dear ProfVK ji,

 

I am reading Gita for last 6 months and have come across various

commentaries. Problem I faced was when reading commentary from dualist

person, whole Gita is seen as dualist. Shlokas which does not fit dualistic

view are commented by taking different meaning of words.

Similarly when reading commentary from Advaitic person, he also extra mile

in making certain shlokas fall under advita by taking different meaning.

Not only that, all of them will claim there view is the only correct one, so

dualist one goes Bhakti is the only way and is better than other yogas. They

will all point out shlokas to support them.

 

This was always a problem to me until I read one of the chapters from Swami

Vivekananda. He said, Gita teaches all three Gyan, Karma and Bhakti ways.

One part of Gita begins with introduction to Bhakti and slowly it takes to

its height and declares one does not need anything else but Bhakti to get

Mukti. Other part begins with Karma Yoga and similarly in the end declares

Karma is only way needed. Same is the case with Gyana. We need to analyze

our nature first and choose the one which is best for us. Once that is done,

hold to that path alone with determination and without any doubt about its

success.

 

Also, the reason I do not write is because I fear it will show my ignorance

as one of the member also mentioned. Other reason being my poor knowledge of

English language.

 

Love all,

santosh

 

 

 

-

"V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk

"advaitinlist" <advaitin>

Friday, April 29, 2005 6:37 PM

'Gita in Daily Life' -- An appeal to the silent majority

 

> Namaste all.

>

> First let me announce that Shri Raghava Kaluri has accepted

> to continue 'Gita in Daily Life' into May also. The

> Moderators thank him for the same.

>

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "R.S.MANI" <r_s_mani> wrote:

>

> Namaste dear Advaitins,

>

>

> "105. Desires are supposed to be wrong. Then what about my desire to

attain moksha?"

>

 

Namste Mani-JI:

 

Hope you feel better soon and keep everybody on their toes.

 

The answer to your question is found in aShTaavakrajiitaa 14th chapter.

 

vij~naate saaxipuruShe paramaatmaani ceshvare |

nairaashye bandhamoxe ca na cintaamuktaye mama || 14.3 ||

 

Meaning - (King Janaka says) having known the saaxii puruSha and the

parabrahma all the desires have dissociated, all the bindings are

broken even the desire for moxa (moxa-kaamanaa) is non-existence.

 

Thus everything is pure realization of the things that create

attachments, and knowing those factors one can become totally free

(mukta).

 

Any time saadhaka tries to go against the desires (iccchaa) they

usually come back to bite him at some point in time. Just like a

tennis ball. Harder one compresses it, harder it rebels.

 

Regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

[Guest guest]

When I was in Mumbai, I studied vedanta from Swami Brahmavidananda and Sri

Uday Acharya. Both are excellent teachers. Swami Brahmavidananda takes

classes in south Mumbai at Bombay Spiritual Group, Gamdevi (near Bharati

Vidya Bhawan) on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Sri Uday Acharya is in New Bombay.

You can view the activities of his group at:

 

http://www.cob.sjsu.edu/venkat_s/vedanta/

 

Mumbai is an incredible place for study if you are interested in advaita

vedanta or other streams of vedanta or in fact any subject under the sun--

you will find a competent teacher in Mumbai.

 

Sanjay Srivastava

9074, Pickwick Village

Silver Spring, MD-20901, USA