Swami Dayananda Saraswathi's article

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A religious teacher of supreme wisdom, Swami Dayananda Saraswati is

also extremely articulate, a combination that is very rare, given the

stereotype of a Hindu protagonist that often raises the hackles of

the 'intellectuals'.

 

His superb command over the White man's tongue is backed by

phenomenal knowledge of not only the Vedas, Vedantas, Upanishads,

Gita et al but also the religious texts and practices of other

faiths, not to speak of modern literature. In a way he is the ideal

foil for those at the other end of the ideological spectrum, namely,

Communists, atheists, JNU historians and lest I forget, 'other

miscellaneous secularists': He is one who could be more than a match

to them, word for word and in wits.

 

And he does not have the habit of mincing words either, as the reader

will observe from his explicit, extensive, exclusive interview to

News Today on a wide range of topics, past, present and future ...and

even the eternal.

 

For a moment, the journalistic impulse of brevity the penchant for

wielding the scissors overcame me. But on second thoughts,

thankfully, I decided that the verbatim account should be presented

to the readers, even if it meant carrying it over for more than one

day.

 

Now, over to Swami Dayananda Saraswati:

 

Q: You have come out strongly against the Pope's statements on the

anti-forcible conversions laws. You have also been a campaigner

against conversions, terming it as violence. Can you elaborate?

 

Ans: Okay. What is violence? When you physically hurt me it is

violence. When you do anything that can instigate physical violence,

that is an act of violence, too. And if you can hurt me emotionally

it is also violence. If you can hurt me spiritually that is the worst

violence, rank violence. All these are there in conversion because it

leads to physical violence. When you convert somebody you have to

criticise the person's religion, his worship, his culture; all these

hurt. Even when he changes it hurts. How will he change? He has to

disown his parents, and their wisdom and their culture, his

ancestors, and entire community; you are isolating him, uprooting him

and all the uprooted people are emotionally unsettled.

 

For instance, Blacks in America are uprooted people. Even after

generations they are not emotionally settled. It will never help the

persons who are uprooted from their culture. So it is great violence

against culture, tradition etc.

 

Q: Is the religious person, then, the core person?

 

Ans: Yes, we find some people die for their religion because in their

scripture it is told that if your religion is in danger then you will

have to sacrifice your life so that you will also have a better place

in paradise. The fellow begins to believe that and he is ready to

give up his life. This is indoctrination. So, for their religion's

sake, they have double standards. One who does not believe in their

religion is anti-god as if God has given only their religion to

follow. If he does not follow that he is an enemy to God, an infidel

and deserves to be killed. Though God any way is going to destroy

him, but if you destroy him, God will be pleased that you have proved

your faith. This is the double standard. The values are not common.

For followers one set of values, for non-followers another set of

values. Killing gets a sanction. That is why these are all dangerous

religions. And I say all converting religions are dangerous. They

have created problems. It is like somebody wanting freedom to destroy

me. If I do not give this freedom, I become a fundamentalist. But if

I give them the freedom to destroy me, then I am a liberal, my

religion a free religion. That's it. Now this very concept of freedom

itself has to be questioned, examined and told to the people.

 

Q: And to the Pope?

 

Ans: Not only Pope. Pope told this because they have got away with it

for 2,000 years in the name of freedom of Religion. They have wiped

out continents, cultures in various continents, religions in

countries ... where are those religions and cultures that built those

pyramids? Show me one fellow now as a sample. Greek and Roman

monuments are there, but where are the religions? In Europe they

completely wiped out all the indigenous religions. In North America

and South America they have finished off all the native cultures.

Even in Africa it is almost finished.

 

So now in Asia they are planting their religion. They want to be

successful, between these two people they want to destroy all

cultures in this world. So therefore, I say enough is enough. I don't

want to ask them to give up their (the converts) religions now.

 

But their concepts, their beliefs are not acceptable to me. I give

them the freedom to follow what they follow. But I want them to leave

me free to follow what I believe! They cannot say evangelising is not

against other religions. It is against other religions; Conversions

are against other religions. We don't believe in conversion itself.

We do not accept that, we do not do that.

 

Q: Then how do you deal with this problem when it is so basic? What

are the practical ways?

 

Ans: The theologians have to change. But they will not. That is

because they have enough in-built programming. What we call

indoctrination. There is no use even to make an attempt. But we

should keep talking about that to them. But there is one thing with

them. They just wait for a time when there is more freedom for them

to do. So let that time be kept away. That conducive time for them to

convert be kept away. The people have to be made aware and proud of

their religion and that would take care of that in course of time.

They should be able to say enough is enough.

 

Q: But there is the lure of money and incentives and other benefits

that the naive fall for...

Ans: It is not really the money that buys. What do they do? Small

things, and then they try to tempt them. That gives the thumb space.

They begin to enter the heart. Then they tell the most unkindly cut.

When the missionary tells that the fellow's daily pooja is wrong,

that his altar of prayer is not the altar, he has to alter that. That

is the unkindest cut you can get. It is a stab in the heart, where

this fellow innocently gives some space for the missionary to enter.

That very place becomes a place for attack. He attacks at the heart

of the person, his religious core. And therefore the missionaries are

the most violent people in the world. They have committed violence

and nobody has committed violence as they have done. They continue to

do that. But people do not realise this. They do seemingly good

things in order to commit this violence.

 

Q: What is the effect of missionary activity on national security?

 

Ans: Look at the Northeast. I wonder if I can go and talk there, in

my own country. They ask if I am from India! This is what the

missionaries have done. Those people are made to feel they are non-

Indians. It is very unfortunate. It is a major problem for national

integrity. And not good for our tradition. In fact, Hindu religion

has to be saved for the sake of humanity because the Christians don't

believe the Muslims will go to heaven, the Muslims don't believe the

Christians will go anywhere. They both are fighting each other in

trying to reach heaven or paradise. And both believe that the other

is not going there, so they will fight forever. The only person who

says paradise is not up there but here is the Hindu. Hindu is the

only one who makes sense. He has also got a methodology to teach, it

is not just a belief. Only they are working on belief. We are working

on wisdom. There it is just beliefs, many of which cannot be proved

and several of which are wrong and foolish. See, a belief is above

reason. When you say there is heaven it is above reason. You can

believe that. You survive death then you will go to heaven, which is

also a belief. But when you say that you will survive death, but you

will go to heaven or hell, then it is difficult to believe. And

another thing they say is God is formless. But he needs a location.

You cannot define foolishness in a better way. When you believe

against all the evidence then it is called foolishness.

 

Q: The inequalities that have cropped up in Hinduism are used as

handle against?

 

Ans: Even they have their own inequalities. They have their own

problems that are endless. But that doesn't give us a sanction for us

to have problems. We should try and solve them. But still all these

are our problems. Brothers are fighting each other over a property

and if a third fellow comes and says, since you two are fighting let

me occupy the property, that cannot be allowed. You remain an

encroacher. You can help us, but you cannot become a beneficiary of

our fight. Therefore we should resolve our own fights. You have no

business interfering in our house and I would not intrude in yours.

 

Indian Christians and Indian Muslims are converted from Hinduism,

without themselves knowing what they are getting into. But once

converted they are told that their brethren and forefathers are devil

worshippers! This is what I say is dangerous. As Indians they have a

right to know the religions, the people and their culture and forms

etc. If they know there will be no problems. But they are purposely

kept away. The clergy is responsible for that, Islamic and Christian

clergy are responsible for that.

 

Q: But if they want to know or even reconvert, will the

Hindu 'clergy' allow that...

 

Ans: In India, there is no clergy. Here all are Hindus until they

call themselves different because when I allow every form of worship

then where is the problem? We deem you another Hindu, only you are

saying I am this and that. There is no re- conversion. There is a

prodigality and they come back. like a prodigal son. We do not even

need to baptise. We have to ask him to give up beef that is all.

 

 

Please see also Swamiji's open letter to The Pope.

http://www.hindunet.org/conversions/pope99/to_pope_from_swami_dayananada_sa.htm