experiencing "Adwaita"

[Guest guest]

Adwaitanubhuti (Experiencing Adwaita)

 

I beg pardon of all and submit my foolish words that could well be ignored by

anybody who disliked.

Your knowledge of Adwaita is bookish and you must spend more time in

‘nididhyasan’ for experiencing Adwaita, if

 

1. looking at the bodies of your wife, mother, daughter and a young woman next

door, your eyes are experiencing the difference;

 

2. your body experiences the difference between touch of metal (or wood) of

the seat and the touch of the beautiful woman seated next to you, during your

travel, her body touching yours slightly and you are talking to her and are

unable to control your eyes frequently watching the curves of her body;

 

3. your Guru or Acharya has not abused and/ or insulted you many times;

 

4. you had bad luck that you were never insulted by Guru or Acharya, nor

were you insulted in public, and you did not try yourself to get yourself

insulted in family, friends or public;

 

5. your Guru or Acharya asks you for any thing that includes all your assets

and your body, and that time you think about your future and family

responsibilities;

 

6. you are thinking that you should have some money spared and saved for the

future,

 

7. you can make out the difference in fragrances;

 

8. you have a choice for food;

 

9. you are a new person to a place and a few of the people do not

automatically respect you, bow before you or stare at your face, (without any

outer make-up);

 

10. you initiate a court case against anybody for recovery of money which

you had lent or deposited, or for any other matter;

 

11. you are not repeatedly facing failures in worldly transactions;

 

12. you have in mind a slightest hatred for any thing in this world (let

your body react to it any way);

 

13. you do not think that you have become forgetful and the ‘pratiprasav

prakriya’ begun;

 

14. while you are not busy, you do not have the thoughts in your mind about

‘swaroop’ or about helping others with “atmabhava”,

 

15. you like your photo or name to appear anywhere,

 

16. you think that you have duties to perform;

 

17. you have a slightest hatred or the words of curse for the persons who

troubled and tortured you;

 

18. you do not continuously experience that you are not talking, you are not

writing, you are not doing, you are not thinking,

 

19. you have not developed a sense to understand all the visible things and

things which you deal with ( living or non-living) are God,

 

20. while enjoying the worldly things of sensual pleasures including sex,

(Many of the Rishis were married and had children) if you think that you are

enjoying or you are doing something that is giving you pleasure,

 

21. while looking at your mother, father, children or any blood relatives,

you think that they love you very much and you love them,

 

Jnanis are not necessarily bound by anything above.

 

The list could be bigger.

 

Lastly, we all know that experience of ‘Adwaita” is impossible to be framed in

words.

 

The mistakes are mine,

 

 

Yours,

 

Anil

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 4 May, Sri Anil Bharatey wrote:

 

"Your knowledge of Adwaita is bookish and you must spend more time in

nid

idhyasan for experiencing Adwaita, if

 

1. looking at the bodies of your wife, mother, daughter and a young woman

next door, your eyes are experiencing the difference; "

 

If the eyes fail to perceive obvious differences, it is a sign of

malfunctioning of eyes; not a sign of realization. There is no evidence to

suggest that a jnani starts experiencing an undifferentiated mass of reality

as opposed to the phenomenal world of differences. Even after essential

non-difference between two objects, say gold and lump of earth is

understood, a jnani does not start crafting necklace out of a lump of earth.

When hungry, he still eats food, not just anything that comes his way.

Recognizing the same sat-chit-ananda nature of wife, mother, daughter and a

young woman, does not impair his ability to behave differently and

appropriately with them.

 

"2. your body experiences the difference between touch of metal (or wood)

of the seat and the touch of the beautiful woman seated next to you, duri

ng your travel, her body touching yours slightly and you are talking to her

and are unable to control your eyes frequently watching the curves of her

body;"

 

A jnani does not lose his ability to respond in different ways to different

stimulii. Till he is within body, he is still bound by deha-dharma. In this

regard an incident about Gandhiji illustrates this point (though I do not

want to imply that Gandhiji was a jnani).

 

In his later years, Gandhi was convinced that kama was a hinderance to his

avowed principle of ahimsa and decided that it was necessary to overcome

kama. With fierce resolve he practiced different sadhanas and fasting till

he thought that he had finally overcome kama. To test his celibacy, he

started sleeping naked in room with women. During one such trial sessions,

he got an erection and felt tremendously guilty. Did it mean that he failed

to overcome the force of kama or that his effort itself was misplaced?

 

My teacher was once explaining Swami Akhandanandaji's commentary on

Mandukya-Karika, where he has quoted example of one of his fellow sannyasi

who was a baala-brahmachaari and got a wet dream. Swamiji asks the question

whether this vitiated his sannyasa and concludes that it did not.

Deha-dharma continues to operate in a jnani and ajnani alike.

 

The post seems to suggest that a jnani is a piece of vegetable who does not

experience different feelings and emotions. It further suggsts that advaita

is some sort of a mystical experience that leads one either into super or

sub human dimensions. Neither conclusion is supported by shastra or personal

experiences of realized masters."

 

Regards,

[Guest guest]

Namaste all!

Dear Anilji,

 

You have attempted to describe the signs (Laxanas) of a Siddha Purusha or

Jnani Purusha.

 

Yes, some of these signs are found in Self realized persons. But they are

universally applicable. There are no hard and fast rules about such things.

The behaviour of a Jnani Purusha may often be perplexing to common people.

Moreover, his external behaviour may not always reflect his innate

understanding.

 

Many self realized persons have succeeded eminently in material transactions

and worldly pursuits.

King Janaka himself was a Jnani.

Shri Atmanand (Krishna Menon) was an accomplised Police Officer and Criminal

lawyer.

Shri Gadge Maharaj was very shrewd and practical. He established a number of

philanthropic institutions very successfully. His work, though not for

personal gain, involved a number of material transactions,

 

Shri Narayan Deo of Kerala, a Jnani, also performed similar activities.

 

I fail to understand why insults and abuses should be showered upon a

disciple or should be a prerequisite for Jnana.

 

Finally, a Jnani Purusha alone knows what is his own state. Isn't it

preposterous for any one else to describe it?

 

I apologize for assuming that you are just a Sadhaka and not a Jnani, at

least not currently ;-) !

 

Pranams to all Jnanis and Sadhakas.

 

Ravi Shivde.

[Guest guest]

(PS - reference to the letter of Shri Ravi is added

 

at the foot.)

 

Respected Shri Shrivastvaji,

 

 

 

I am grateful to you that you have rightly pointed out that points 1 and 2 in

the post “experiencing “Adwaita” are not in the harmony with whatever is

preached by the Shastra and enlightened Acharyas. Kindly think about what

Bhagwan Jagatguru has told in Vivekchudamani, “ Shruti and Guru are always

“Tatastha” (impartial), hence, seeker has to find his own way”. Shastra and Guru

never reveal many secrets that would create “Buddhibhrama” in nescient stage.

But when one decides to pursue “Adwaita” it is presumed that he/she has

understood the meaning of Yama, Niyama and Sadhanchatushtaya to obtain the

“Adhikar” to experience “Adwaita”. This “Adhikar” starts reflecting gradually in

his/her life though he/she is in “Grhastha”. These reflections give the

experiences like those twenty one explained in the letter.

 

 

 

I thank you very much that you have at least not raised objections on remaining

19 points. I am not expert in shastra and not professor or Phd. Phil. Also, I

have not met many self-realized men or taken lessons from any qualified

teachers. I regarded as human Guru to Hon.Khapti Maharaj a saint who entered

samadhi at the age of 113 in the year 2003. The meaning of the word “Khapti” in

Indian languages is “mad”. “Kha” is the sky and “pati” is the ruler. Therefore,

all I have learnt from him is the little madness which appear in my letters in

poor language. He never taught me a word. I lived with him for about 15 years.

He used to ask me to feed cows and do other similar work even knowing that I was

not very much an uneducated man. He would always garland me with dirty abuses

which I used to take as “Amritpan”.

 

 

 

I however, dare to write below explanation on the objections with my “Alpajnan”

of Shastra.

 

 

 

“Adwaita” is infinitely pious. Sant Jnaneshwar has written in Amritanubhava, ”I

am afraid, if calling by any name like “Adwaita’ would be tolerated by Him ?”

 

“Adwaita” is beyond touch of intelligence, thoughts, teachings, speech etc;

”Yatrawacho nivartante”. Lord Krishna therefore, advised Arjuna to give up all

Veda and Shastra and,” Nistraigunyo Bhavarjuna”. “Go beyond the Shashtra and

“Traigunya Veda” because “Gunah Guneshu Vartant”. When one comes to the stage of

experiencing “Adwaita”, he looses his skill and ability to describe it. It is an

experience of “Atmanyewatmana Tushtah”, hence, human senses are eclipsed

automatically.

 

 

 

The twenty one points are just the experience at the beginning stages of

entering the Jeevan Muktha conditions. “Adwaita’ experience is extremely

difficult, if the slightest of the desires are left in the person. Experience of

“Adwaita” is not a subject of professors and doctors, their limitations is,

“wacharambhanovikaro…”. “There expertise in unfolding and explaining secrets of

shastra methodically and deliver lectures to keep the people spell bound is

meant for entertainment (or for quenching their thirst of intelligence) not for

“Moksha” (emancipation) writes Bhagwan Jagatguru in Vivekchudamani.

 

 

 

Brahmacharya is not compromised at all in the pursuit of “Adwaita” experience.

There can not be any Purva and Uttar Paksha ( two parties to argument) on this.

The saints and Shastra are very very strict.

 

 

 

We must all be knowing the eight kinds of pleasures from copulations and to

refrain from it is Brahmacharya as explained in Shasta.

 

 

 

“Smaranam Kirtanam Kelih ....Mumukshubhih”

 

 

 

I think I need not explain this here because all the honorable members in this

group are highly qualified people and understand these things properly.

 

 

 

It has been straightly declared by Hon. Vvyas Muni in Vyasabhshya on Yogasutra,

“Brahmacharya….. . .Sanyamah” (2.30) that controlling sexual organ (Upashtha)

is Brahmacharya. Also in Shandilyopanishad it is defined, “Brahmacharya….. .

..sarvatra maithuna tyagah”, meaning that body, mind and speech should give up

contact of the subject of opposite sex.

 

 

 

Famous saint Sant Jnaneshwar of Maharashtra was extremely harsh in this respect

and advised to the extent that; he writes in his great work on Bhagwant Geeta

(Jnaneshwari- in Marathi),

 

 

 

“Janmateni Prasange……. . . .Sowale Kije” (17/211)

 

 

 

Explanation - The seekers( Those pusuing “Adwaita” with Tivra Samvega) should

not have any contact with woman barring at the time of own birth.

 

 

 

Loosing even a drop of semen (Virya) is supposed to be leading to death, say

Shiva Samhita. “ Maranam Bindu Paten Jeevanam Bindu Dharanat”

 

 

 

Lord Krishna has warned the seekers who want the experience of “Adwaita” (Param

Pada) “Yadichhanto Brhamacharyam Charanti”.

 

8-11

 

(converse – forget Brahmapada otherwise ).

 

Also the loving God Krishna has gently reminded that ‘Tapa” necessarily include

Brahmacharya.

 

 

 

So, there are thousands of quotes in Shastra and in the preaching of the

Rishi-Muni and the great godly self-realized and enlightened saints that

Brhamacharaya is the essence of the “Jnan”.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, in Parmartha human body has not been given importance by Shastra

more than piece of vegetable may it be a body of Jnani. Bhagwan Jagatguru has

given more dirty names to human body than respected Shrivastavaji. True sadhak

need to ignore personal cases like Mhatmaji and also should ignore some of the

advises by the Great Guru which are given to the disciples individually and not

generally.

 

 

 

As far as the seekers who are extremely keen in the experience of “Adwaita” and

have studied all the required knowledge in “words” and have understood the

essense should be very very patient and should not go in too much on word-wars

say the wise men (Vidwan).

 

 

 

“Yoga is the Nirodha (total stoppage) of Chitta and Vritti” is the definition of

Yoga given by Bhagwan Patanjali in the first Yoga Sutra. However, Shastra is

kind to “Adwaitins” and has given the concession to the seekers of the

experience of “Adwaita”, that they should be very patient and continue the

nididhyasan, without doing any physical exercise for Chitta Vriti Nirodha, which

essentially incorporates Brahmacharya.

 

Here is the quote from “Ashtavakra Geeta” (Sutra 41) to this effect.

 

 

 

Kwa Nirodho Vimudhasya

 

Yo nirbandham Karoti Vai |

 

Swaramasyaiva Dhirasya

 

Sarvadasava Kritrimah. ||

 

 

 

The Nirodha of Chitta and Vritti

 

(including Brahmacharya ) is a very casual matter for the Dhirah ( Jnani or who

patiently keeps on the nididhyasan of “Adwaita”). How a foolish person can

obtain control forcibly (by physical exercise)?

 

 

 

Lastly, I would say that a proper stage comes during the pursuit of “Adwaita”

that the points no. 1 and 2 are experienced by Sadhaka very casually, however,

Nididhyasan and Guru Sevan be continued. Many many things which appear to be

incredible at the seeker stage are astonishingly found true when the experience

of “Adwaita” starts with the Kripa of Satguru.

 

 

 

Of course, the bookish knowledge and haste to publish it create problems in

gaining the experience.

 

 

 

The mistakes if any are mine,

 

 

 

Yours

 

 

 

Anil

 

 

 

 

Sanjay Srivastava <sksrivastava68 wrote:On Wed, 4 May, Sri Anil

Bharatey wrote:

[Guest guest]

All respected members and Shri Ravi,

 

The foot note did not appear in the reply to letter of Shri

Shrivastavaji, so I am separately giving it here.

 

Anil

 

 

Namaskar,

 

 

 

You are very correct. Jeevan Mukta "laxan" could be different in each individual

case.

 

 

 

The matter (prkaran) is not about Jnani, Jeevan muktha or

 

Jnanottar Sthiti.

 

 

 

The matter is about the stage when the literal study of Shastra is complete and

/ or the essense is understood by the seekar and he is extremely desirious for

the "anubhava". (Not a Jeevan Muktha like Gadgae Baba). In this stage the

twentyone points that covers the three main "eshanas" of sadhak, and most of the

natural Vrittis in to-days' world could not be igonred.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yours

 

 

 

Anil

 

 

Ravi Shivde <shivde wrote:

Namaste all!

Dear Anilji,

 

You have attempted to describe the signs (Laxanas) of a Siddha Purusha or

Jnani Purusha.

 

Yes, some of these signs are found in Self realized persons. But they are

universally applicable. There are no hard and fast rules about such things.

The behaviour of a Jnani Purusha may often be perplexing to common people.

Moreover, his external behaviour may not always reflect his innate

understanding.

 

Many self realized persons have succeeded eminently in material transactions

and worldly pursuits.

King Janaka himself was a Jnani.

Shri Atmanand (Krishna Menon) was an accomplised Police Officer and Criminal

lawyer.

Shri Gadge Maharaj was very shrewd and practical. He established a number of

philanthropic institutions very successfully. His work, though not for

personal gain, involved a number of material transactions,

 

Shri Narayan Deo of Kerala, a Jnani, also performed similar activities.

 

I fail to understand why insults and abuses should be showered upon a

disciple or should be a prerequisite for Jnana.

 

Finally, a Jnani Purusha alone knows what is his own state. Isn't it

preposterous for any one else to describe it?

 

I apologize for assuming that you are just a Sadhaka and not a Jnani, at

least not currently ;-) !

 

Pranams to all Jnanis and Sadhakas.

 

Ravi Shivde.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

This advaita experience is a tricky business. Most of us are trying

to describe it without having the experience! What we are writing

is only what we read from books or what we observe of accredited

jnAnis like Shri Ramana Maharishi. So there cannot be a final word

about it from our angle.

 

I think Sanjay Srivastava is right when he says `JnAni is not a

vegetable'.

 

I think Ravi Shivde is right when he says `a Jnani Purusha alone

knows what is his own state. Isn't it preposterous for any one else

to describe it?'

 

My experience comes from my observations of my own father. He was

not a renunciate (Sannyasi) in the physical sense. He lived all his

life in the midst of family and household. I have observed him for

nearly as about the last 25 years of his life. I was 29 when he

passed away. I lost my mother when I was six. (My father was 51

then). So my father was everything for me thereafter. I have

therefore carefully observed him through all the family

circumstances. He had two widowed sisters (elder to him, both

issueless and both penniless) (both of whom he was supporting ever

since his age 25 when he lost his father) and a widowed sister-in-

law (=my mother's sister) (rich but very careful with her

possessions). One of these widowed sisters was being supported by

him by allowing her to remain in her own village. The other sister

and the sister-in-law were alternately taking care of our household

and in their absence, we had hired help of maid-servant-cooks. I

had two sisters 12 and 15 years elder to me, both married. Every

year (for about 17 years) one of them would be back at our place for

their next delivery and would stay consequently for at least three

months with their children. One of them had a non-cooperating spend-

thrift husband, so that through her there would be always financial

problems presented as challenges to my father who was himself a

meagre earner as an employee in the local Sub-court. I had an elder

brother, 10 years elder to me, and he and his wife and all of us

were living as a joint family .

 

Even when my father was in his twenties he had been, during summer

vacations, studying under the feet of Shri Shri Vasudeva Brahmendra

of Ganapati Agraharam, Tanjore District. He had also been sitting as

a public witness-listener to the Bhashya teachings given to Shri

Chandrasekharendra Saraswati (now called Kanchi Mahaswamigal) in the

second (or first?) decade of the 20th century at the Kanchi mutt,

Kumbakonam. And further he used to study and write vigorously

(literally till the last day of his 74-year life) all the 24 hours

from any scriptural book that he can bring from the Library.

 

With all this by age 32 or so he had already started his Vedantic

expositions. His first such exposition was on Suta-samhita!

 

So resuming my account of my younger days, I could see that amidst

all the overweighing family problems, he was teaching Gita Bhashya

pAtham at home to a few friends every morning – except five

anadhyayana days in the month. (I was not yet ten then, but I used

to sit in those classes).

 

I have written all this to give you a picture of this karma-bhakti-

jnAna yogi in action. His elaborate puja never stopped even for a

single day. (You would be surprised to know that in one of his

travels by train from Madras to Calcutta, his train stopped at a

major station on the banks of the Godavari and it appears he had a

quick bath in the river, came back to the platform, spread out his

puja paraphernalia, finished his puja and got back into the same

train in which he is travelling).

 

His advaita knowledge and pursuit of advaita was so convincing from

his behaviour as well as his reactions to events. He would take

everything as God's will -- good or bad, honour or dishonour,

praise or blame, pain or pleasure, blame or insult, success or

failure, small or big, gain or loss, health or sickness. I have

seen it day by day, hour by hour. I have learnt most of my advaita

by observing him rather than from scriptures.

 

His writings tell me now that all the time he was `experiencing

advaita'. I cannot describe it because it was his experience. But I

can `feel' his experience even now, long after he left me!

 

 

Pardon me, please, for this lengthy post.

 

PraNAms to all advaitins, and to my father.

profvk

[Guest guest]

Respected Sri Baharteyji.

 

At the outset, kindly excuse my impudence, but I have several more

disagreements with your post than the two I mentioned. I do not have a

claim to better or even basic understanding of advaita, yet many points

in your post seemed to contradict what I have learnt so far from my

teachers. My disagreements are more to clarify my own doubts, than to

challenge your understanding. In particular, I fail to see a logical

connection between understanding of advaita and the following:

 

"3. your Guru or Acharya has not abused and/ or insulted you many

times;

 

4. you had bad luck that you were never insulted by Guru or

Acharya, no

r were you insulted in public, and you did not try yourself to get

yourself

insulted in family, friends or public;"

 

I can understand that you get a better opportunity to test your

equipoise in the moments of humiliation than praise, however why it

should be a precondition of advaita understanding, is not clear. The

way I understand it, is that you do not need ANY special experience to

realize the teachings of advaita. Whatever good,bad or ugly experiences

you already have are enough to point you to advaita, if analyzed

dispassionately under the guidance of a teacher.

 

"5. your Guru or Acharya asks you for any thing that includes all

your a

ssets and your body, and that time you think about your future and

family r

esponsibilities;"

 

Though behaviour of a jnani cannot be judged by any rules, it is very

unlikely that a traditionally trained teacher would pose such a demand

esp. if he knows that you are still a sadhaka-- not a jnani. Looked

from vyavahaara perspective -- which is the level I stand -- it is

more likely that such a teacher is actually a con-man.

 

"7. you can make out the difference in fragrances;"

 

This would suggest that advaitanubhava causes some damage to your sense

organs. Is there an evidence that advaitanubhava leads to physiological

changes in body?

 

"8. you have a choice for food;"

 

Will a jnani not make any distinction between khaadya and akhaadya?

 

He may not have any emotional dependence on food but he may still have

his choices. Late Swami Taranandaji Giri was one of the most respected

advaitins at Rishikesh. Laddu was his favourite food. After doctors

diagnosed him as diabetic, ashrama administration stopped giving him

laddus. It did not bother him the least. However, on occasions when he

was served laddus, he still enjoyed it whole heartedly.

 

"10. you initiate a court case against anybody for recovery of

money whi

ch you had lent or deposited, or for any other matter;"

 

Or for that matter you engage in mahabharata war because your rightful

claims are usurped by dhartarashtras?

 

"11. you are not repeatedly facing failures in worldly

transactions; "

 

If you are to treat success and failure as same, why the preference for

failures?

 

"20. while enjoying the worldly things of sensual pleasures

including se

x, (Many of the Rishis were married and had children) if you think that

you

are enjoying or you are doing something that is giving you pleasure,"

 

As long as by "pleasure" and "pain" you mean specific physiological

sensations and not the mental ruminations over them, there should not

be any reason, why sensations would change for the same stimuli.

 

A regards teaching by silence is concerned, this method is usually

eulogized in mystical traditions such as zen etc. In advaita,

traditional view is to accept shabda as pramana.

 

Regards.

[Guest guest]

Respected Sanjayjee,

 

 

 

I could understand that your letters are neither protest to 21 points nor to

ridicule my mail. You have written with pure mind and only as your pursuit of

knowledge. Shastra however, advises in such cases that that the hidden meanings

should be understood from only Brhamanishta Guru.

 

Bruyuh snigdhasya shishyasya |

 

Guravo Guhyamaputah ||

 

“A person having too much earnest and love for “Adwita”, the secrets should

only be advised by Guru”

 

You and me are at par levels in this group and hence I should not write more,

trying to become elder to you.

 

I have limitations to write more on this subject now. I would request you to

discuss on these points with any age old Guru staying in remote village or

jungle place if you get a chance. Only “Yogavashishta” can give you some

thoughts that would give you satisfaction on these points to certain extent.

 

However, as a last communication on this subject I would give explanation on

each point as below.

 

3 and 4

 

One has to try desperately to come out of the sense “I exist as Anil (0)”

called Ahamkar to understand the meaning of “Adwaita”. This is done generally

by ‘true’ Guru by insulting or ignoring, or more dirty methods. Otherwise,

sadhak has to try himself. I had read about a Retd. High Court judge who

preferred a way to sit before a temple in disguise of a begger to overcome his

ego. If one does not do this, he would be enjoying only the literal meaning and

ego that he knows something and would never experience “Adwaita”. I am sorry,

but I can say this authoritatively.

 

5

True Guru does not need money but he always asks money to disciples. I have

seen a Guru who used to use a pair of shirt and dhoti for one year and his total

asset Rs. 50/- asking his disciple Rs. 1.00 Crore. His disciple sold his

properties and paid the money to Guru. The disciple enjoys his bliss now. Guru

purchased land and many things out of the amount but never visited those

properties. See Sai Baba Charitra.

 

The basic thing to understand is that Yadhnya, Tap and Daan are only three

things by which one can understand “Adwaita”. There is no fourth thing. Guru

knows this and favours disciples by asking “Daan”.

 

 

7.

Your body is Panchikrit five elements. When you come near to experience

“Adwaita”, one by one Mahabhuta starts leaving your body gradually. First such

Mahabhuta is Prithvi whose Tanmatra is Gandha and exp[erienced by nose.So when

your study comes to maturity you loose the differentiation in fragrances.

 

 

8.

You understand that there is no difference in your body and the food you eat.

 

A sadhu was served with sweets, but he sat near dustbin on road and sitting on a

dog there he started eating and feeding to dog.

 

People gathered there and started laughing. He recited a sloka,

 

Vishnopari Vishno sthite

 

Vishno Khadasi re Vishno

 

Hasai kim Vishno Twam

 

Sarva Vishnumaya Jagat.

 

“Vishnu is eating Vishnu sitting on Vishnu,

 

Why are you laughing Vishnu, all this Jagat is Vishnumaya”

 

This is real “Adwaita” Also the second Tatwa is Jalatatwa. You loose its hold

on your body. The Tanmatra of Jalatatwa is Rasana. You therefore, loose the

taste of food.

 

For yogees they loose Prithivitatwa up to their laps and then Jalatatwa up to

their lower abdomen.

 

10

 

This is very important. One has not to initiate any action against anybody

before he becomes Jnani. Secret will be told to you by Guru. This is called

Titiksha.

 

 

11.

 

You have to give up preferences. When you pursue for the Sakshatkar after

gaining Adhikar, Adwaita i.e. Parbrahma wants you to come fully out of worldly

affairs and starts making you failure in all your worldly undertakings. This is

a Prasad of “Adwaita” and one has to accept it humbly and respectfully without

slightest protest or pains.

 

20

 

This is thing to be experienced at that particular stage and not to be

explained in words.

 

Yours

 

Anil

 

Note by Moderators: Please don't include the entire post of the other person's

mail to which you are replying.

[Guest guest]

Dear Anilji,

 

While there can be dispute about some of the points enlisted by you, there

can be do doubt about the intensity of longing for experience of Advaita

which shines through your message. This longing is most admirable and is

worthy of emulation by all. The question is, whether most of us are willing

to go to extremes for getting such an experience!

>One has to try desperately to come out of the sense "I exist as Anil (0)"

called Ahamkar to understand the meaning of >"Adwaita". This is done

generally by 'true' Guru by insulting or ignoring, or more dirty methods.

Otherwise, sadhak has to >try himself. I had read about a Retd. High

Court judge who preferred a way to sit before a temple in disguise of a

begger to >overcome his ego. If one does not do this, he would be enjoying

only the literal meaning and ego that he knows something >and would never

experience "Adwaita". I am sorry, but I can say this authoritatively.

 

Yes, Ahamkar is the worst enemy. Out of all Ahamkars, the Ahamkara of

knowledge is the worst; said Shri Ramkrishna. To eradicate it, drastic

methods as advised by you may be essential, otherwise book-learning will be

of no use.

 

Shri Ramkrishna himself used to visit the house of an untouchable at night

and sweep the floor of his cottage with his long hair, to eradicate his ego.

Shri Gadge Maharaj used to court insults and even manhandling by and

purposely drawing water from wells reserved for higher castes and pretending

that he is an untouchable. Gurus insulting and beating up their disciples

are known. Rani Rasmani was slapped in public by Shri Ramkrishna for

thinking about a court case during Kali Pooja . Shri Kammu Baba of Mumbai

was often beaten up and starved by his Guru Shri Sai Baba of Shirdi.

 

People like members on our advaitin list who are highly educated and well

placed have to be very careful about this Ahamkara of knowledge. I have been

facing this enemy from early childhood because I was regarded as a

'scholar'. When I found that reciting a few Sanskrit shlokas in front of

people leaves them impressed, it started giving me a 'kick'. Little

knowledge is enough to boost the ego of persons like me.(Add to this a

little money and the case is made worse). Even today, when I correspond with

erudite members of this list it gives me a feeling of importance, as if I am

somewhat superior to the common run of people who cannot go beyond mundane

matters!

 

Shri Anilji's message is an eye-opener!

 

Pranams to all true Gurus.

 

Ravi Shivde

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote:

> Namaste.

>

> This advaita experience is a tricky business. Most of us are trying

> to describe it without having the experience!

 

And even in the light of jnana, there is no possible

way to describe it. There's really nothing there

which can be described.

> What we are writing

> is only what we read from books or what we observe of accredited

> jnAnis like Shri Ramana Maharishi. So there cannot be a final word

> about it from our angle.

 

Reading about Advaita outside of jnana bears the hazard

of occluding thoughts forming in the mind. We begin to

imagine what it must be like. This creates a set of ideas

about it. These sit in our head and prevent us from seeing

the ever-present truth. Expectations about self-realization

form the lionshare of the maya which is in the way. It's

created by what we *believe* about the truth. To believe

this or that about the Self is certain to be utterly wrong.

> I think Sanjay Srivastava is right when he says `JnAni is not a

> vegetable'.

>

> I think Ravi Shivde is right when he says `a Jnani Purusha alone

> knows what is his own state. Isn't it preposterous for any one else

> to describe it?'

 

It's preposterous for a jnani to describe it as well.

 

--jody.

 

[snip]

[Guest guest]

List Moderator's Notes: Inspite of our repeated requests, members (new members

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message has been already removed!

 

Res. Shri Raviji and Sanjayji,

 

It is not our convention but let me thank you for acknowledging and responding

to my foolish words.

 

 

 

Shri Raviji has written,

 

 

 

“People like members on our advaitin list who are highly educated and well

placed have to be very careful about this Ahamkara of knowledge.”

 

 

 

With begging pardon of all for my poor knowledge of English and inability to

translate Sanskrit words, I dare to write here what I thought about Shri Ravi’s

words.

 

 

 

It is very difficult for ordinary people in the world to get attracted to

“Adwaita”. One who is attracted is always prompted by the providence and due to

his past karmas. Inquiry, interest and pursuit of “Adwaita” are impossible

without kripa of Satguru. These three (IIP) amount to “BrahmaJidhnyasa”. All of

us have read beautiful Bhasya of Pujyapad Bhagwan Jagatguru Shrimat Adi

Shankaracharya on the first Sutra of Brahma Sutra, and hence this point need not

be elaborated here. IIP (Inquiry, Interest and Pursuit) in “Adwaita” in the

present birth is only a continuation since the last birth, say the shastras.

 

 

 

All the members have therefore, to be very serious (Bhava Purna) on the point of

experience of “Adwaita”, because this is like a bullet that has came out of gun.

This is beyond doubt that everybody involved in IIP has to reach to the

destination one day. May be this or the next or after few births. No body can

stop this. There is no way. It is a Gati of Jeeva. If one does not prepare his

mind for the experience of “Adwaita”, nor he is lucky to get guidance from Guru,

be hundred percent sure that providence will teach the lessons. When providence

gives the lessons to “Ahamkari” person in IIP, those are terrible. Every chapter

of the lesson of providence end with tears in the eyes, may he be a very strong

person like Ravana, charming person like King Nala, kind person like King

Harishchandra.

 

 

 

IIP in “Adwaita” is beginning of “Dhnyan Yadhnya”. No body can run away without

Purnahuti in this birth or the next. Everybody shall have to reach to Purnatva,

there is no choice.

 

 

 

IIP in “Adwaita” is a Dhnyan Marg. This is a “Vihamgam” Marg and not a

“Pippalika” Marg like Radha-Krishna dance, or like Ashtanga Yoga involving

physical exercise of Prana and Bindu. Dhnyan Marg is compared with walking on

the edges of a sharp weapon by shastra. Swami Vivekarnand has aptly described

this in his book “Dhnyan Marg” published by Ramkrishna Ashram.

 

 

 

Mother Shruti has expressly called all others the “Animals of God”, but not to

the seekers in Dhnyanmarg, because a person with IIP in “Adwaita” has not to

worship any God who is different from himself. Buddhi

 

(Intelligence) is “Ishwara-Anugrahini” and the people who find IIP in “Adwaita”

are only extra-ordinary intelligent persons; this is not a job of Mand Buddhi

people.

 

 

The members of this group therefore, have the automatic blessings of Ishwara,

they being brought by their Ishwranugrahini Buddhi in to the IIP of “Adwaita”.

There is no go to the people, if they are serious about Anubhuti, but to find

the ways to reduce the “Ahamkar” deliberately and gradually.

 

 

Yours

 

 

Anil

 

 

Ravi Shivde <shivde wrote:Dear Anilji,

[Guest guest]

Prof. Shri V.K.. Pranam,

 

 

 

This refers to your post given below :

 

 

 

Ajihvatwadi Dharma

 

 

 

After achieving pure mind what a Sadhak/Sanyasi has to do? How should he behave

and keep the austerity till he enters Sattwapatti state? This has been explained

in the following sloka (s).

 

 

 

Ajihvah Shandhakah PangurAndho Badhir-Eva Cha

 

Mugdhashcha Muchyate Bhikshuh ShadbhirEtairna Samshayah.

 

 

 

“There is no doubt that the Sadhak/Sanyasi who has the six qualities viz. 1.

Ajihva 2. Shandha 3. Pangu 4.Andha 5.Badhir 6. Mugdha, gets emancipated and

enters JeevanMukta state.”

 

 

 

What does these six qualities mean ?

 

 

 

1. IdamIshtamIdam Neti Yoashchann-Api Na Sajjate

 

Hitam Satyam Mitam Vakti TamJihvam Prachakshate

 

 

 

(Ajihva means having no tongue). Sadhak/Sanyasi who while eating does not say,

”This is good” or “This, I do not want” and does not get addicted to food, (does

not find interest in the taste of food), and (who) speaks beneficial to others,

truth and limited is called AJIHVA.

 

 

 

2. Adhya Jata Yatha Nari Tatha ShodashVarshikim

 

Shat Varsha Cha Yo Drushtwa Nirvikarah Sa Shandhakah

 

 

 

The Sadhak/Sanyasi who is void of sexual feelings (unmoved mind)looking at the

newly born, sixteen years old or hundred years old female is called Shandha.

 

 

 

3. Bhiksharthamatanam Yasya VinmutraKaranayaCha

 

Yojanajja param Yati Sarvatha Pangureva Sah.

 

 

 

The Sadhak/Sanyasi who leaves his place only for Bhiksha or for calls of nature

and who does not walk beyond one mile is called Pangu.

 

 

 

4. Tishtato Vrajato Vaapi, Yasya Chakshurna Durgamam

 

Chaturyugam Bhuvam Tyakta Parivrat SeAndha Uchyate

 

 

 

The Sadhak/Sanyasi who while standing or walking looks only up to 16 feet at the

front side and gives up looking at four sides is called Parivrat Andha.

 

 

 

5. Hitahitam Manoramam Vachah Shokavaham Cha Yat

 

Shrutwa-Api-Na-Shrunoti Yo Badhirah Sa Prakirtitah

 

 

 

The Sadhak/Sanyasi who listens but ignores the pleasing words of interest and

praise or the unpleasing words is called Badhir.

 

 

 

6. Sannidhye VishayanamCha Samartho Vikalendriyah

 

Suptavat-Vartate Nityam Sa BikshurMugdha Uchyate

 

 

 

The Sadhak/Sanyasi whose sense organs do not get excited even if the enjoyable

things become available to him and who reacts to those things like a man in

sound sleep is called Mugdha.

 

 

 

After Chitta Shuddhi and after the above six Sadhan(s)the following has been

recommended by Shastra :

 

 

 

Sadhak/Sanyasi desiring Atmadhnyan should make a determination of mind

(Nishchay) that he himself is SatChitaNand swaroop and should ignore this world

with firm thinking that the world is illusionary and has no base (Satta or

reign)

 

 

Yours

Anil

 

"V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk wrote:

Namaste.

 

This advaita experience is a tricky business. Most of us are trying

to describe it without having the experience! What we are writing

is only what we read from books or what we observe of accredited

jnAnis like Shri Ramana Maharishi. So there cannot be a final word

about it from our angle.

 

I think Sanjay Srivastava is right when he says `JnAni is not a

vegetable'.

 

I think Ravi Shivde is right when he says `a Jnani Purusha alone

knows what is his own state. Isn't it preposterous for any one else

to describe it?'