Guest guest Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 Namaste esteemed List members, I would like to study the Mahavakya - "Consciousness is Brahman". I have not yet studied any Advaita text and would like to know where to start. I am familiar with Bhagwat Gita. I have read on the list that if I can think about it, then it cannot be the Self. My little experience/understanding is that there is a voice in me which tells me to be honest, which evaluates and often criticizes my speech and actions, which reminds me to do the tax return honestly, which detects my ego and points out ego driven thoughts/actions, a feeling of poise and peace. That voice to me is the voice of God. Call it Brahman if that is more acceptable. But is this voice intellect(buddhi) or Consciousness. I have read the analogy of the electric current in all electrical appliances/devices but I don't think I understand exactly what Consciousness is. Is it even possible to approach this topic intellectually ? With best regards, Shailendra Discover Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 advaitin, Shailendra Bhatnagar <bhatnagar_shailendra> wrote: That voice to me is the voice of God. Call it Brahman if that is more acceptable. But is this voice intellect(buddhi) or Consciousness. I have read the analogy of the electric current in all electrical appliances/devices but I don't think I understand exactly what Consciousness is. Is it even possible to approach this topic intellectually ? Namaste Shailendra-ji and all. In answer to your question may I recommend that you read the following page: (titled The second secret of secrets) http://www.geocities.com/profvk/livehappily_10.html I would appreciate your comments on the above. Does it answer your question? With regards profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 Shailendraji Prof. VK has provided waves of explanations for you to enjoy. Here are some thoughts to ponder to help you further. To answer your questions there is no particular advaita text that discusses this aspect exclusively but remember all advaita texts are addressed for and addressed by conscious entities since unconscious entities do not need any Vedanta much less advaita Vedanta. In fact, even their very existence in reality is questionable at best. Prajnaanam brahma is the first aphorism or Mahaavaakya. In addition to what Prof. VK has provided, I have discussed this Mahaavaakya in the advaita Manjari series, which you can get from advaitin from archives. Here are some guidelines for you to think about. Consciousness itself does not do any thing- but in the presence of consciousness, all things are done. akartaa aham abhoktaa aham - I am neither doer nor enjoyer. For me to do something, action has to be something different from me. Kartaa, karma and kriya each is mutually exclusive and each limits the other and therefore finite. Since consciousness, being infinite and one without a second is not an actor or enjoyer, feeler, thinker, etc. However, all actions and enjoyments are done due to the presence of consciousness and are within the consciousness, since there cannot be anything separate from consciousness. To understand this one need to study Kenopanishad. The mantras say it is the eye of the eye, ear of the ear, mind of the mind etc. It is discussed in mystical language. Consciousness is that which one cannot think of, speak of, hear of, see of, etc but it is that because of which one has the capacity to think, capacity to speak, capacity to hear, capacity to see etc. So what is it? - it is that because you which you are able hear the words of wisdom, and the words of warning, because of which you have the capacity to think and discriminate and guide your self to higher path, it is very life principle in you because of which you can talk, walk and speak, see, hear, touch, smell, breath and feel alive - it is everything but nothing can point it as it is this. It is because of which the very life pulsates in an inert matter. It is the wonder of wonders. It is because of which I can bend my hand, close my eyes, breath, eat, digest, and above all think and contemplate. Yet it itself does not do anything. It makes the matter to enliven, to be vibrant, to be able to express, doubt, discriminate, and complain and cause others to complain. I have discussed in the advaita manjari the statement that - 'consciousness is brahman' is a converse statement in contrast to a direct statement - 'brahman is consciousness'. In mathematics as you are familiar, a converse statement is very rigorous involving both necessary and sufficient conditions. It means when one say consciousness is brahman, anything that is consciousness has to be brahman. That is anything that is alive, as you study prof. vk analysis, is nothing an expression of consciousness and therefore brahman by the Mahaavaakya. The more you contemplate on it, the more you can see the beauty that is being revealed in the simple looking statement. That is why it is very first Mahaavaakya. If one understands that mahaavaakya, one truely understands the essence of Vedanta. Just a note: I will be discussing some of these aspects during the spiritual day-camp that is being conducted by Chinmaya Mission, Washington during this Memorial day Weekend (Saturday-Sunday). If you are interested let Shree Ram Chandran know and arragments can me made for the stay of outside visitors. I will be taking the text - dakshinamuurthy stotram of Adi Sahnkara with Manasollasa of Sureswara. It is a two-day camp that runs whole day, each day. Hari OM! Sadananda --- Shailendra Bhatnagar <bhatnagar_shailendra wrote: > Namaste esteemed List members, I would like to study the Mahavakya - > "Consciousness is Brahman". I have not yet studied any Advaita text > and would like to know where to start. I am familiar with Bhagwat > Gita. I have read on the list that if I can think about it, then it > cannot be the Self. My little experience/understanding is that there > is a voice in me which tells me to be honest, which evaluates and > often criticizes my speech and actions, which reminds me to do the tax > return honestly, which detects my ego and points out ego driven > thoughts/actions, a feeling of poise and peace. That voice to me is > the voice of God. Call it Brahman if that is more acceptable. But is > this voice intellect(buddhi) or Consciousness. I have read the analogy > of the electric current in all electrical appliances/devices but I > don't think I understand exactly what Consciousness is. Is it even > possible to approach this topic intellectually ? > > With best regards, > Shailendra > > > > Discover > Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it > out! > > > > What you have is destiny and what you do with what you have is self-effort. Future destiny is post destiny modified by your present action. You are not only the prisoner of your past but master of your future. - Swami Chinmayananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Thank you Prof Krishnamurthy-ji and Sadananda-ji. That is a lot of material to assimilate and think about. with respects and regards, Shailendra "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk wrote: http://www.geocities.com/profvk/livehappily_10.html Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 <------------------------ I would like to study the Mahavakya - "Consciousness is Brahman". --------------------------> Namaste, I have a further confusion about this issue. This arises from the 7th verse of Mandukya Upanishad : "Conscious neither internally nor externally, Nor either ways, neither ordinary consciousness, Nor the greater and the deeper consciousness, Invisible, otherworldly, incomprehensible, Without qualities, beyond all thoughts, Indescribable, the unified soul in essence, Peaceful, auspicious, without duality, Is the fourth stage, that self, that is to be known." Here it says that the self (which has already been equated with Brahman in an earlier verse) is neither conscious internally nor externally, is neither ordinary consciousness nor deeper consciousness... So how is the self then to be understood as consciousness as proclaimed by the MahaVakya in question - Consciousness is Brahman. Thanks! Mayuresh. Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail./mailtour.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 Hi Mayuresh: "is neither conscious internally nor externally, is neither ordinary consciousness nor deeper consciousness" What the above quotation from the Mandukya Upanishad means to me is that consciousness is simply beyond all dualities. The Self, or Brahman, cannot be described as 'this' or 'that', or conceived as being 'like this' or 'like that'. It cannot be made an 'object' of knowledge, but must be experienced directly. First comes experience, then comes understanding-then the dishes. Om Tat Sat. Best, Colin tatha gat <tathagat79 wrote: <------------------------ I would like to study the Mahavakya - "Consciousness is Brahman". --------------------------> Namaste, I have a further confusion about this issue. This arises from the 7th verse of Mandukya Upanishad : "Conscious neither internally nor externally, Nor either ways, neither ordinary consciousness, Nor the greater and the deeper consciousness, Invisible, otherworldly, incomprehensible, Without qualities, beyond all thoughts, Indescribable, the unified soul in essence, Peaceful, auspicious, without duality, Is the fourth stage, that self, that is to be known." Here it says that the self (which has already been equated with Brahman in an earlier verse) is neither conscious internally nor externally, is neither ordinary consciousness nor deeper consciousness... So how is the self then to be understood as consciousness as proclaimed by the MahaVakya in question - Consciousness is Brahman. Thanks! Mayuresh. Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail./mailtour.html Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To Post a message send an email to : advaitin Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages advaitin/ advaitin Mail Mobile Take Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 advaitin, tatha gat <tathagat79> wrote: > >> > Namaste, > > I have a further confusion about this issue. This > arises from the 7th verse of Mandukya Upanishad : > > "Conscious neither internally nor externally, > Nor either ways, neither ordinary consciousness, > Nor the greater and the deeper consciousness, > Invisible, otherworldly, incomprehensible, > Without qualities, beyond all thoughts, > Indescribable, the unified soul in essence, > Peaceful, auspicious, without duality, > Is the fourth stage, that self, that is to be known." > > Here it says that the self (which has already been > equated with Brahman in an earlier verse) is neither > conscious internally nor externally, is neither > ordinary consciousness nor deeper consciousness... > > So how is the self then to be understood as > consciousness as proclaimed by the MahaVakya in > question - Consciousness is Brahman. > Namaste Mayuresh -ji There are three states of consciousness; Waking, Dreaming, and Sleep. Beyond these three is what is called the turIya (the fourth). It is not a state. Objective consciousness is present in full in the waking state. It is present with a certain limitation in the dream state (limited by the mind). It is absent in the the sleep state. And it is also absent in turiya. But the seed of it is present in the sleep state. Even the seed of that objective consciousness is absent in turiya. Turiya is the transcendence of the empirical. It is free from the interruptions and alterations of the three states. When deep sleep terminates the self returns to the dream and the waking states. In turiya there is, if we may say so, a permanent union with Brahman, the source of all consciousness. That is why the mahAvakya: prajnAnaM brahma. The first two states are conditioned by cause and effect. The third state (sleep) is conditioned by cause alone. Neither cause nor effect exists in turiya. This turiya is self-revealing and is not dependent on any other factor for the revelation of Itself or of others. It is the one reality in which all phenomenal things end. The superimposed snake ends in the rope, when the dawn of knowledge arises. PraNAms to all advaitins. profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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