Guest guest Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 As i am new to this group and to this study, please forgive any unintended impertinence. But I must ask the question: Why all this reference to "God", "belief in Ishvaraatheism" and the like ? If truly there is "not two", then these references can have only conceptual meaning and thus no true existence in noumenal reality. If we are to understand or realise correctly then do not all such references merely postpone such? The concept that a "path" is necessary in order to realise is also a reality only in the phenomenal arising and thus not real in the noumenal self. Why must we be taught that there are prerequisites to Realisation? Humbly, reid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Shree Reid You have asked very pertinent questions. Here is my understanding. --- cod1ybab <cod1ybab wrote: > As i am new to this group and to this study, please forgive any > unintended impertinence. But I must ask the question: Why all this > reference to "God", "belief in Ishvaraatheism" and the like ? If > truly there is "not two", then these references can have only > conceptual meaning and thus no true existence in noumenal reality. You are right at the absolute level, all references get dissolved into one homogeneous mass of consciousness. Hence they are relavent only at conceptual level since all sadhana and need for sadhana or paths exists only at that level - which we call it as vyavahaarika level. If > we are to understand or realise correctly then do not all such > references merely postpone such? Yes there is big IF - Until that big if, the undersanding is only at the conceptual level and there all these concepts are equally valid. The concept that a "path" is > necessary > in order to realise is also a reality only in the phenomenal arising > and thus not real in the noumenal self. Why must we be taught that > there are prerequisites to Realisation? Yes, since the teaching can only be done at the vyavahaarika level which you call it as phenomenal level(since there is a teacher and the taught), path has a validty, until of course that one recognizes that the truth is a path-less land. But that is an understanding as understanding as fact not as a thought- as JK puts it. Till then as long as one deals with phenomenal world, the world, and its creator and the athiests and paths all exist in that level and have relavency within that level. At the absolute level, no words need to be spoken as the seeker and sought have merged into one. Hari Om! Sadananda > > Humbly, > reid > > > > > > What you have is destiny and what you do with what you have is self-effort. Future destiny is post destiny modified by your present action. You are not only the prisoner of your past but master of your future. - Swami Chinmayananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 Namaste Reid, thank you for your message.... trying to write few words about....even if i agree mostly with you you write about the "path".....and the necessity to follow or not....and "where to follow ?"....in Oneness of Being maybe this path is life itself.....which depend on more or less accumulated Karma... i don't know if there is a "free" choice on "how" one follow "which" path.... the law of Karma is acting constantly.....if one is aware of it or not..... the pure Being in us....which is same In all....i believe is untouched by any Karma related "will"... the so called "free will" don't exist......except in the mind of body- mind-intellect identification.....which is Maya i believe that the necessary "path" is Awareness..... there are no "prerequisites to Realisation?".... i think Karma will show it to the individual.... on how far one is attached to Maya this are few thoughts.... i'm thankfull for corrections.... Regards peace and love Marc advaitin, "cod1ybab" <cod1ybab> wrote: > As i am new to this group and to this study, please forgive any > unintended impertinence. But I must ask the question: Why all this > reference to "God", "belief in Ishvaraatheism" and the like ? If > truly there is "not two", then these references can have only > conceptual meaning and thus no true existence in noumenal reality. If > we are to understand or realise correctly then do not all such > references merely postpone such? The concept that a "path" is necessary > in order to realise is also a reality only in the phenomenal arising > and thus not real in the noumenal self. Why must we be taught that > there are prerequisites to Realisation? > > Humbly, > reid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 Namaste Sri Dennis Travis: I am puzzled by your statement, "there are no prerequisites to Realization." This statement is valid for those with "pure mind" and consequently, pure mind (equivalently pure heart) is a fundamental prerequisite. Please note that "Awareness" agains depends on the level of one's spiritual progress. With spiritual progress, one can purify the mind and enlighten the Awareness. The Yogi with that 'stable mind' can attain the 'spiritual vision - supreme awareness' and eventually he/she can realize the SELF. Please note that in "Vivekachoodamani, Sankaracharya discusses the prerequisite for a seeker (also for the teacher. Most of us have filled our mind with all sorts of thoughts and consequently our 'awareness' got trapped in the body-mind-intellect paradigm. We the adavaitins of Shanakra's School believe in 'mind purification' and consequently we want to practice Yoga (Karma, Bhakti and Jnana) to bring "divine tendencies" and to remove "human tendencies." The entire Bhagavad Gita discusses the path of "Yoga" and provide for "human salvation." It should be pointed out that 'faith' is an integral part for getting answers to all questions that go beyond human perception. Without faith and conviction, we can't see what we don't see! Also without faith, we can't become aware of what we don't see!! regards, Ram Chandran advaitin, "dennis_travis33" <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > ..... > i believe that the necessary "path" is Awareness..... > > there are no "prerequisites to Realisation?".... > i think Karma will show it to the individual.... > on how far one is attached to Maya > > this are few thoughts.... > i'm thankfull for corrections.... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 Namaste Ram Chandran-ji and all I like your last paragraph about 'faith' being an integral part of prerequisites for understanding answers to questions that go beyond human sense perception. I am adding one more sentence (at the end) to make it stronger. The full paragraph would now read as follows: It should be pointed out that 'faith' is an integral part for getting answers to all questions that go beyond human perception. Without faith and conviction, we can't see what we don't see! Also without faith, we can't become aware of what we don't see!In fact, we can't become aware that we don't see! PraNAms to all advaitins profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 Namaste Ram Chandran, thank you for your answer.... i agree with your words....i believe also that "mind purification" is a good path.....means, good to "work" on it.... the partly statement of "there are no prerequisites to Realisation"...i took it from the previous message.... and tried...to explain, that indead, this can only be used by pure "minds" .....who no more produce "negativ" Karma...and have so less human tendencies....attachments..... maybe by "positiv" Karma one choose (we choosed) one day to practice one of the Yoga paths...... i believe that an important "step" in spirituality is about the "identification with body mind intellect"....means, the attachment to it....and the need to loose this identification......by any good Karma, Faith and Practice "mind purification" and "Dharma", i think, are much related.... thank you for your detailed answer and explanations the Indian culture and knowledge of "purification" is a good example for other nations, cultures.... Regards peace and love Marc advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <RamChandran@a...> wrote: > Namaste Sri Dennis Travis: > > I am puzzled by your statement, "there are no prerequisites to > Realization." This statement is valid for those with "pure mind" and > consequently, pure mind (equivalently pure heart) is a fundamental > prerequisite. Please note that "Awareness" agains depends on the level > of one's spiritual progress. With spiritual progress, one can purify > the mind and enlighten the Awareness. The Yogi with that 'stable mind' > can attain the 'spiritual vision - supreme awareness' and eventually > he/she can realize the SELF. Please note that in "Vivekachoodamani, > Sankaracharya discusses the prerequisite for a seeker (also for the > teacher. > > Most of us have filled our mind with all sorts of thoughts and > consequently our 'awareness' got trapped in the body-mind-intellect > paradigm. We the adavaitins of Shanakra's School believe in 'mind > purification' and consequently we want to practice Yoga (Karma, Bhakti > and Jnana) to bring "divine tendencies" and to remove "human > tendencies." The entire Bhagavad Gita discusses the path of "Yoga" and > provide for "human salvation." > > It should be pointed out that 'faith' is an integral part for getting > answers to all questions that go beyond human perception. Without faith > and conviction, we can't see what we don't see! Also without faith, we > can't become aware of what we don't see!! > > regards, > > Ram Chandran > > advaitin, "dennis_travis33" > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > > > ..... > > i believe that the necessary "path" is Awareness..... > > > > there are no "prerequisites to Realisation?".... > > i think Karma will show it to the individual.... > > on how far one is attached to Maya > > > > this are few thoughts.... > > i'm thankfull for corrections.... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 Shri Marc, There are prerequsites for any study of Shastra and any Undertaking of Upasana or Vidya. "NityaNityaVivekadi - SadhanChatrushtaya" is prerequisete to learn Vedanta. Also for Jnan, the necessity of "Chitta Shuddhi" has been insisted upon by Shastra which is acquired by various ways that include many austerities and Karma, Bhakti, Upasana, Vrata, Vaikalaya etc. In absence of prereuisites knowledge of "Adwaita" shall be " WachaRambhanoVikaro". The fruits like "Tarati ShokAtmavit" (One gets freedom from miseries) or "Tameva Viditwati Mrutumeti" (Knowing Brahma only, (eva) one crosses the death), told by mother Shruti shall not be available to those who do not care for prerequisites. We know that Ashtanga Yoga which is being taught all over world without the prerequisites like Yama, Niyam, Ishwara Pranisdhan etc. have in many places brought almost disgrace to the word Yoga. True seekers go the Shastra way. Yours Anil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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