Questions from a newcomer

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

In the following my comments and questions are enclosed in [VK ...].

 

------------------------

advaitin, marshalt@a... wrote:

>>

> Hello,

>

> I joined this list a few weeks ago and have been reading messages.

I have found them very interesting.

> I joined because I have some questions regarding Hindu teachings,

related to the nature of consciousness and the process of

enlightenment, or awakening. I am a stay at home mother to two

children and I live in the Metro DC area. I am a practicing

Christian but love the teachings of all religions. When I

was in my early 20s and started having spiritual experiences,

 

[VK: Of what kind were these spiritual experiences?]

 

> I read Hindu

> teachings. They nourished me and helped me greatly on my path.

>

> I am now reading a book called "Vasistha's Yoga" and it is helping

me as well.

> But I have been having intense spiritual experiences lately

 

[VK: Again, what are these spiritual experiences?]

>and I began looking for a place to have some questions answered.

Perhaps someone on this list would be so kind as to take some time

and help me. I am afraid I am not familiar enough with your

terminology to use it comfortably so I will use my own words

>

> 1. Is fear a necessary part of the process of becoming truly free?

I have experienced a great deal of fear, and dread, when confronted

with spiritual realizations. For example, in processing the idea

that "I" am nothing, an illusion, I dealt with a great deal of

>fear and pain in doing so.

 

[VK: This 'fear' is because you were jumping the line. There are

prerequisites before one goes to the stage of practice of "I am

nothing"]

 

I feel I have

> completed a cycle and have a new awareness and peace now, and do

not feel that heavy dreadful feeling. But it was very diffulcult

for a while. So my question is: Is fear a part of the process? Is

that awful dread a necessary part, since a part of the ego is

>dying?

 

[VK: Fear need not be a part of the process. But in order that the

fear does not confront us, one has to have the trust in God. Jesus

tells us: 'Except ye be born again, ye cannot enter the Kingdom of

God'. This rebirth, this birth in spirit is the death of the ego.

Die the death of the ego and be reborn spiritually. This is the

teaching. But in order to implement the teaching, trust in God,

indeed a one hundred percent. faith is a necessary prerequisite.

Then He will Himself help us towards the death of our ego.]

> 2. My second question is related. I have been experiencing that

everything is one. That I am all of life, my children, the trees,

etc. But to fully realize this and experience this all the time,

and live as in a dream while fully awake, as I read in the

>scriptures, I experience a deep loneliness.

 

[VK: If you have been experiencing that everything is one, then

where is the loneliness? Loneliness comes only when there is another

thing away from you. When nothing is away from you, there should not

be any loneliness. Your feeling is again due to the fact that you

are taking it as an exercise in self-hypnosis. It is not. As I said

earlier, first we should develop trust in God. And for a Christian

such as you, that should be easy. Now Hindu Vedanta says, see that

God in everything that confronts you. When you see your own God in

everything, then you will develop a sense of love towards

everything -- which is exactly what Jesus taught.]

> Where in the Hindu teachings is this spoken of or explained? I

would like to know how others deal with this, how they experienced

it, and how it resolves itself. I feel that to fully realize I am

one with the universe, I have to experience this most horrible

>reality that I am all there is.

 

[VK: In order that it may not be a horrible reality, one has to

first practise seeing one's own God in everything. Instead of

forcing yourself to feel that I am one with the universe, first be

comfortable with the thought, vision and practice of "Everything is

God". The step towards advaita has to be taken AFTER one is

comfortable with "sarvam khalvidam brahma" -- All this is brahman!]

 

 

It is like the

> archetypal dream where you wake up and realize you are alone,

there is nobody else in your house. I lie in bed at night and am so

sad to think that my husband, my children, are in reality the same

as me, I am all there is, there is nobody else. If diversity is an

>illusion, it is a very lonely universe.

 

[VK: Again, I have to say, you are jumping the queue. The thought

that diversity is an illusion, should be fostered only after the

thought of unification of all that diversity into one God.]

>

> What is the teaching about this loneliness? It is truly is more

than I can bear at times. Is this why God created the universe,

>because he could not bear to be alone?

 

[VK: This question God alone can answer. Do not allow your intellect

to fool you by raising questions which no created being can answer.

That itself is the first prerequisite even before one trusts in God.]

>

> Thank you for any help on these matters.

>

> Warmly,

> Jennifer Damashek

 

 

[V K: I have attempted some answers to your questions. I hope I

have talked sense.]

 

PraNAms to all azdvaitins.

profvk

[Guest guest]

Dear Jennifer,

 

I can empathise with you, as i have had some similar experiences. While the

others may have tried to explain the philosophical or spiritual aspect of your

problem, i could tell you about what i experienced and how i came out of it.I

hope it would be of use to you.

 

In Feb 2003, while I was meditating (at that time , I was an atheist and was

meditating to reduce my stress as I had IBS), i had this sudden, funny feeling

going up my spine and then for a few days i was so oxygenated that i could not

sleep and was so full of energy that i used to go and run for miles ( i was a

lazy, unfit person and would not walk even 300 feet, if i could avoid it). I

could not come to terms with this exhilirating feeling and asked around about

this phenomena. I was ecstatic and maddeningly happy and smiling.

 

Then someone told me that it was a spontaneous kundalini awakening and then to

understand what was happening within me, i started reading up all books on

Kundalini awakening. Most of the books, scared me as it wrote about how 35 % of

the people who have spontaneous awakening end up in the asylum or what Gopi

Krishna underwent and this built fear in me. The nadis or energy channels which

had opened due to the awakening was now passing tremendous energy and i started

meditating for over 5 hours a day. In about a week / 10 day's time, there was

this fiery heat within me (am sure that fear also played a small part in

blocking the nadis).

 

The heat was such that my eyes were constantly blood red and i felt all the time

that i will burst out in flames. For around 20 days, i stopped intake of food to

reduce energy input . Using help of ayurveda, some mantras, accupressure to

reach out to the hypothallamus, eating tamsic food to reduce energy to higher

chakras, laying of hands on others to heal them and such methods, in six to

eight month's time, i was able to reduce heat and live reasonably normally.

 

Now, life is a wonderful roller coaster ride and there is so much "ananda" that

smile and laughter is not even a second away from my lips. Anger has gone and so

has all other negative feelings. Everything seems part of me and advaita

philosophy attracts me deeply. My operational style is to try and understand

what I experience and while some answers come through reading and satsanga. most

of the answers are while meditating, which I am sure are undiluted and correct.

Some of the theories that i read in vedas and upanishads find resonance and some

do not. But I cannot argue here, because neither am i well read or studied nor

do i have the resources of the language and knowledge that i find with others

here.

 

So, i would like to end here by saying that the more your fear, more the

blockages and problems. From what i read, you seem to have had some one-time

spiritual upliftment and that has scared you and you are afraid of repeating it.

Fear will surely stop the recurrence, but people live lifetimes for what might

have happened to you. Remove your fear and embrace it. Loneliness is because you

are alone in your experience and you do not have anyone who can understand the

truth that you have experienced. But there are people, who do, so rid your self

of loneliness and wallow in the happiness that you have stumbled upon. In case,

there is heat or other problem, do write to me and we can try and resolve the

same.

 

Love

 

Mayank

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Jennifer,

 

thank you for your message and sharing of spirituality...

in being somebody on the path....i suppose on same spiritual

path .....try to find few words, answers and personal views....

difficult to know what exactly is (was) the cause of your fears...

it's never easy to loose "illusions"....to be remembered that one

need to go on....on and on...following the path....

can be that there is kind of "inner voice" which let one remind the

path....means, to remind what is essential in (spiritual) life

 

this need some trust...in the Self.....in the real Self...

after some time...there is more trust....and less fears...

 

sometimes there is not much time to "digest" all this spiritual

growing and that this is expressed in different kind of

emotions....also in fears....

the moment there is fear....there is also ego-mind.....

both are related

 

to 2)

the loneliness question...

 

i can understand what you try to describe....got same kind of

experiences....and sometimes it appear...

i think that this experience is stronger when there is not much

possibility to share spiritual experiences with "others".....means,

when the spiritual life need some more harmony in daily life

 

some people even search a kind of lonelyness....far from many people

and noice....to discover more of the inner side of oneSelf...

 

often...lonelyness and spiritual growing is much related ....

one can cause the other

 

maybe because there is "nothing but Brahman"....one feel "alone" in

entering in a complete "emptyness".....but maybe only, because during

this experience there is missing of the "ego-mind" appearing....or

some other illusions ...related to the Past....to time.....to

space.....to emotions.....to....whatever or whoever

 

personally i believe that also this "loneliness" will

disappear....like the fears.....

 

try to go on ....on the path......

 

maybe the spiritual path is a path...which never end....

 

this is maybe the difference to any other path

 

enjoy the infinite path....feel unity with All on this path.....

you are All in All

 

Regards

 

love and peace

 

Marc

[Guest guest]

Dear profvk,

 

Thank you very much for taking the time to respond to my questions.

 

You asked about the spiritual experiences I mentioned in my original

post.

 

The first one I had was about 15 years ago. I was raised to be an

atheist and to believe all I am is my body, and that the universe is

a machine created purely by chance. I believed that until one day I

was taking a nap and as I was awakening I felt I was being pulled

from my body. I was terribly frightened. There was a whirling vortex

in front of me, and I was actually apart from my body briefly. As I

fought against this force that was taking me from my body I did get

back into it, but as I tried to get control of my body it was very

difficult. I tried to open my eyes and when I did the room was

askew. My perception was confused.

 

That marked the begining of my spiritual questioning. I called my

mother to tell her what had happened and she said it was caused by

fatigue. I realized I didn't believe that, my experience was that I

was actually separate from my body and I hadn't known that was

possible.

 

Then I started reading about all kinds of things, and people came

across my path to help me understand religion, which I had nothing

but disdain for previous to this experience.

 

I went through various stages and have changed a great deal in some

ways but also stayed the same in many others. I realize the

experience of God that I have now I actually always had, I just

didn't know what it was as a child and while I was growing up.

 

I have gone through periods where the universe responds to me. I

don't know else to describe it except the universe seems to respond

to my thoughts. I can be asking a question in my mind and then the

answer appears in my surroundings. Sometimes I ask for these

answers, other times they just occur. Also material needs and people

have come into my life when I have asked for them in prayer and

meditation, or just simply when I needed them. My inner voice and

sense of direction have not failed me, by God's grace only.

 

I met my husband in a New Age church where we studied the teachings

of all the world's religions. I spent many hours daily in prayer and

meditation for about 7 years. My husband and I are no longer

affiliated with that church and now have become Episcopalians.

However, we both remain devoted to many other teachings and ways of

looking at the world. I love devotional Hindu music and so does my 6

year old son.

 

Often, I have the experience that I am fully present, yet a part of

me has disappeared, and replaced with something much bigger. I don't

know exactly how to put it into words. I will be sitting with a

friend and listening to them and when I concentrate on them, it is

like I am gone and they are there talking to themselves and yet I am

fully present.

 

In response to my question about whether fear is necessary, you

wrote:

 

VK: This 'fear' is because you were jumping the line. There are

> prerequisites before one goes to the stage of practice of "I am

> nothing"]

 

And you wrote:

 

VK: Fear need not be a part of the process. But in order that the

> fear does not confront us, one has to have the trust in God. Jesus

> tells us: 'Except ye be born again, ye cannot enter the Kingdom of

> God'. This rebirth, this birth in spirit is the death of the ego.

> Die the death of the ego and be reborn spiritually. This is the

> teaching. But in order to implement the teaching, trust in God,

> indeed a one hundred percent. faith is a necessary prerequisite.

> Then He will Himself help us towards the death of our ego.]

 

 

Me: I understand what you are saying about jumping the line and that

there are prerequisites. I am glad to hear from you that fear need

not be a part of the process.

 

I don't see that I am jumping the line intentionally. I was

perfectly happy as an atheist, and actually I have been perfectly

happy to be as I was all along the line. My experience is that by

questioning, by living, by praying and loving and being joyful, I am

always thinking, and when answers come and I explore them, and I

follow them through, sometimes I find the answers and the path

before me scary.

 

You wrote:

 

VK: If you have been experiencing that everything is one, then

> where is the loneliness? Loneliness comes only when there is

another

thing away from you. When nothing is away from you, there should not

> be any loneliness.

 

 

Me: This loneliness does not seem to me to be coming from anything

being away from me, but rather from realizing that all is one, and

that since all is one, there is nothing else. All is the same. There

can be nothing else.

 

If there is nothing else, then God (or "I") am alone. There is no

other force in the universe.

 

I am not intentionally fostering this thought, or trying to make

myself think it. It just came to me in questioning, and through my

own experience.

 

 

You wrote:

 

VK: Your feeling is again due to the fact that you

> are taking it as an exercise in self-hypnosis.

 

 

I think self-hypnosis means trying to convince yourself of something

by repeating things over and over? I am not sure, I have never

intentionally tried to hypnotize myself although my mother thinks

all prayer is self-hypnosis.

 

My experience has not been that I read about things in religious

teachings and try to experience them or convince myself of them. It

is the opposite. I have these experiences and then I try to

understand them. Sometimes the experiences or the thoughts I have

scare me.

 

 

I wrote: Is this why God created the universe,

> >because he could not bear to be alone?

 

 

You wrote:

> [VK: This question God alone can answer. Do not allow your

intellect

> to fool you by raising questions which no created being can

answer.

> That itself is the first prerequisite even before one trusts in

God.]

>

 

 

Me: I understand what you are saying.

 

Thank you very much for taking the time to respond to me. It has

been extremely helpful.

 

Respectfully,

Jennifer Damashek

[Guest guest]

Dear Marc,

 

Thank you for your thoughts, and sharing. Yes I think the only thing

to do ultimately is the next step. Just live life. And the fears and

all other negative stuff will take care of itself. Thank you.

 

Peace,

Jennifer

[Guest guest]

Namaste:

 

The Vedantic medicine for Loneliness is Satsangh, where you have the

opportunity to exchange your experiences with ' like minded and

spiritually minded people.' Immediately after an unpleasant

experience, the loneliness syndrome attacks our mind with the

thought: "Why Me?" Then the loneliness will prevail until we share

our experience with others whom we trust. Those who discuss with

their friends and relatives about their experience were able to

recognize the fact others had more miserable experiences than

themselves. After such discussions, most of us are able to get rid

of `loneliness' that is caused by such experiences. This is human

nature.

 

In the Vedic religion (Sanatana Dharma) life is equivalent to the

flow of a river. In India, all major rivers originate from the top

of a mountain (Ganges for example from Himalayas at Gangothri) and

flows ups and down through towns and villages, serving the needs of

all beings along the way and at the end merges at the sea. Human life

is also holy like the Ganges and it also flows up and down and

finally merges with the ocean of the Brahman. The only difference is

that the rivers serve unselfishly without complaining and where as

humans live selfishly often complaining. But a spiritual person is

able to recognize the pitfalls of material life and will be able to

adopt a new path where service to the humanity becomes an integral

part.

 

Hopefully, this cyber Satsangh may be help us all get rid

of `loneliness syndrome' through our thoughtful and insightful

discussions.

 

Warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

 

advaitin, "jenniferdamashek" <marshalt@a...>

wrote:

>

> The loneliness part I am not sure I have gotten straight yet but it

> has gone away for now. One thing I realized, is that if you put the

> words "all one" together, you get allone...alone. It isn't really

> that I have felt separate from anything, except nothing. Separate

> from nothing. And that did feel very very lonely. Alone. All one.

If

> there is one, and only one, there can be no two, no differences, no

> creation. I am coming from this from memory now, the experience of

> it is gone.