Guest guest Posted June 5, 2005 Report Share Posted June 5, 2005 Namaste In the detailed description of meditation, Lord Krishna goes through the actual processes of meditation, once in shlokas #s 10 to 15 and again in #s 24 to 28. The last shlokas in the two sets are #15 and #28. In a sense they wind up the process of meditation.The first quarters of these two shlokas are the same: 'yunjannevaM sadA AtmAnaM' (Thus engaging himself always in yoga) The second halves of these two shlokas mean the same thing; 'shAntiM nirvAN a-paramAm mat-samsthAM adhigacchati' (#15) (attains to the peace abiding in Me, which culminates in liberation) 'sukhena brahma-samsparshaM atyantaM sukhaM ashnute' (#28) (easily enjoys the infinite bliss of contact with brahman). But now mark it! The second quarters of the first halves of these two shlokas are significantly different. 'yogI niyata-mAnasaH' (#15) (The Yogi who has controlled his mind) 'yogI vigata-kalmashhaH' (#28) (The Yogi, who has been freed from sins). Now comes my question: Why this difference? (*) Does Krishna mean that in His first description from #s10 to 15 the Yogi has still not reached his destination, whereas in the second description from #s24 to 28, he has? 'The YogI who has controlled his mind' says that the Yogi is still 'practising'. 'The Yogi who has been freed from sins' says what has been achieved after that practice! The fact why there are two descriptions has one logic, in my opinion, as explained in my book on page: http://www.geocities.com/profvk/livehappily_4.html in the following words "....Lord Krishna himself must have anticipated this question about the wandering mind. So He begins again a second time, in the same sixth chapter from VI-24 onwards, to take us step by step from scratch. But now He takes us deeper into the subject.....". But still I do not get an answer to my question (*). Can any one take up this matter? I don't think the commentaries are of help. PraNAms to all advaitins on this list. profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Pranams Prof. VK-ji, Your interpretation tallies with that given by Pandit Satavalekar in his voluminous commentary, Purushartha-Bodhini-Tika (puruShArtha bodhinI TIkA), in Marathi. Further, Gita 6:3, has given the categories of ArurukShu and yogArUDha, the former who is aspiring to the latter state of perfection. The word mumukShu occurs only once (4:15), but the whole Gita is addressed to such a one only. eva.n GYaatvaa kR^itaM karma puurvairapi mumukShubhiH . kuru karmaiva tasmaattvaM puurvaiH puurvatara.n kR^itam.h .. 4\-15.. "Having known this, the ancient seekers-after-freedom also performed action; therefore, you too perform action, as did the ancients in the olden times." Regards, Sunder advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote: > > In the detailed description of meditation, Lord Krishna > goes through the actual processes of meditation, once in > shlokas #s 10 to 15 and again in #s 24 to 28. > > The last shlokas in the two sets are #15 and #28. In a > sense they wind up the process of meditation.The first > quarters of these two shlokas are the same: > 'yunjannevaM sadA AtmAnaM' (Thus engaging himself always > in yoga) > > > Now comes my question: Why this difference? (*) > > Does Krishna mean that in His first description from #s10 > to 15 the Yogi has still not reached his destination, > whereas in the second description from #s24 to 28, he has? > 'The YogI who has controlled his mind' says that the Yogi > is still 'practising'. 'The Yogi who has been freed from > sins' says what has been achieved after that practice! > > The fact why there are two descriptions has one logic, in > my opinion, as explained in my book on page: > http://www.geocities.com/profvk/livehappily_4.html > > in the following words > > "....Lord Krishna himself must have anticipated this > question about the wandering mind. So He begins again a > second time, in the same sixth chapter from VI-24 onwards, > to take us step by step from scratch. But now He takes us > deeper into the subject.....". > > But still I do not get an answer to my question (*). > Can any one take up this matter? I don't think the > commentaries are of help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Further, Gita 6:3, has given the categories of ArurukShu and yogArUDha, the former who is aspiring to the latter state of perfection. praNAms Hare Krishna A good observation prabhuji, yes, here Lord first talks about *ArurukShu* who has the better control of karma & good at bahiranga sAdhana. The stage of Arurukshu is a stepping stone towards yogArUdha who has mastery over his senses....shankara calls this (dhyAna yOga) as antaranga sAdhana after attaining perfection in karma yOga. Interestingly, shankara gives us the various stages of jnAna nishTa in the 5th chapter commentary & tells us order of the spiritual sAdhana i.e. karma yOga, chitta shuddhi, Atma jnAna & mOksha....( karmayOgaShcha IshvarArpita sarvabhAvEna ........satva shuddhi, jnAna prApti, sarva karma saNyAsa kramENa mOksha iti....etc. etc.) This yOgArUdha cannot be a brahma jnAni so, yOgArUdha can be some time yOga bhrasthTa also since the dhyAna yOgi is still an antaranga sAdhaka & not a jnAni . Hence Arjuna subsequently asks questions about the status of yOga brashTa & Lord answers his questions appropriately. It would also be interesting to note that at the end of 6th chapter Lord praises the yOgi & tells he is even superior to jnAni-s, ascetics (tapasvi) & karmi-s ( karmi, tapasvi, jnAnibhyOpi matOdhikaH)...but as you all know here jnAni does not refer to brahma jnAni, lord talks about jnAni-s who have only textual knowledge of shAstra-s (sacred lores). Just my few thoughts..... Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 advaitin, bhaskar.yr@i... wrote: > This yOgArUdha cannot be a brahma jnAni > so, yOgArUdha can be some time yOga bhrasthTa also since the dhyAna yOgi is > still an antaranga sAdhaka & not a jnAni . Hence Arjuna subsequently asks > questions about the status of yOga brashTa & Lord answers his questions > appropriately. Namaste, I beg to differ from your interpretation here, as I do not see any logical connection between yogArUDha and yogabhraShTa. As I understand Gita 6:27-28, yogArUDha is a mukta/j~nAnI, same as sthitapraj~na and guNAtIta. Otherwise, vigatakalmaShaH, prashAntamanasaM, shAntarajasaM, brahmabhUtaM, akalmaShaM, sadAtmAnaM yu~njan, AND brahmasaMsparshaM atyantaM sukhaM sukhena ashnute, would not apply. Shankara Bhashya in sanskrit also is along these lines. Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 After practicing an attitude of unselfishness when engaged in normal activities, the aspirant can advance towards an attitude of indifference to pain and pleasure. Success or failure in any endeavour should not agitate the mind. Pain and pleasure should be welcomed with equanimity as being impermanent and, in the very nature of things, complementary to each other. They are part of the universal law of relativity, inescapable. They arise out of the "contacts of matter" and have no effect on the soul. It is one's thoughts and one's actions that affect the fortunes of one's soul, and not the alternating joy or sorrow that comes from with out. True happiness comes not from contact-born pleasures, but from self- control. The serenity of mind that is attained by the practice of self-control works such a change that it may be said that thereby the soul is liberated even though it is still imprisoned in the flesh. We must read the slokas in chapter VI-22 to 28, with slokas 14, 15 and 38 of chapter 2. It would however, be premature to attempt to attain this serenity of mind without first habituating oneself to unselfish performance of all duties. If the unselfish attitude is by practice made almost spontaneous in normal activities, one is qualified to enter on the more difficult practice of serenity irrespective of success or failure, or of joy or sorrow. After one has trained oneself to be a Karma-yogin, that is to say, to do the duties that fall to one's lot without selfish desire and without agitation as to success or failure, one is advised as often as possible to withdraw from the world for deep and undisturbed meditation. Such meditation is a great aid to secure serenity of mind. Yoga in the slokas, VI 10 to 19, is the practice of such meditation. We have to note the insistence on meditation in everything including austerities in the art of controlling thoughts, which continuously seek to run away with the mind; and not in excessive severity of austerities. This is explained in slokas 24 to 27. This is the Brahma Giana, which was taught by Sri Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi, as he has done it himself and realised the soul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 praNAms Sri Sunder Hattangadi prabhuji Hare Krishna SH prabhuji: I beg to differ from your interpretation here, as I do not see any logical connection between yogArUDha and yogabhraShTa. bhaskar : I may be wrong in *seeing* the connection between yogArUDha & yogabhraShTa..but as we know, Arjuna asks questions about yOgabhraShTa's status immediately after Lord tells him about yOgArUDha lakShaNa which you have mentioned below. More importantly, Arjuna specifically mentions about the *yOga* that which Lord elaborated in the previous verses by saying *yOyaM yOgastvayA prOktaH*..prabhuji, kindly tell me which *yOga sthithi* Arjuna thinks *chaNchala* if it is not yogArUDha lakShaNa?? I firmly believe once jnAni establishes himself in Atma jnAna, there is no return for him due to *chaNchala manaH* (first of all where is the question of manO bhuddhi & ahankAra for a jnAni & its influence on *him*!!!)...Krishna says Arjuna that though it is very difficult to maintain equanimity, it can be achieved through *abhyAsa* & *vairAgya*...its a hint of prasankhyAna since the state of yOgArUdha is the suppression of mental activity hence this state requires sustained effort. Whereas brahma jnAni's realization is intuitive (shAstra janita - anubhava gamya jnAna) not through any deliberate means, it is eternal & permanent, no prasankhyAna required to *maintain* that state continuously. Prabhuji, as you know both shankara & shreshwara strongly refutes prasankhyAna vAda in bruhadAraNyaka shruti bhAshya & bhAshya vArtika respectively. Kindly correct me if I said anything wrong here. Humble praNAms once again, Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 advaitin, bhaskar.yr@i... wrote: > > bhaskar : > > I may be wrong in *seeing* the connection between yogArUDha & > yogabhraShTa..but as we know, Arjuna asks questions about yOgabhraShTa's > status immediately after Lord tells him about yOgArUDha lakShaNa which you > have mentioned below. > *yOyaM yOgastvayA prOktaH*..prabhuji, kindly tell me which *yOga sthithi* > Arjuna thinks *chaNchala* if it is not yogArUDha lakShaNa?? > since the state of yOgArUdha is the suppression of mental activity hence > this state requires sustained effort. Whereas brahma jnAni's realization > is intuitive (shAstra janita - anubhava gamya jnAna) not through any > deliberate means, it is eternal & permanent, no prasankhyAna required to > Kindly correct me if I said anything wrong here. Namaste, It is not for me to say whether you are right or wrong. I think you are applying the ArurukShu lakShaNa to yogArUDha. Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 Namaste Sri Bhaskar-ji >> bhaskar : I may be wrong in *seeing* the connection between yogArUDha & yogabhraShTa..but as we know, Arjuna asks questions about yOgabhraShTa's status immediately after Lord tells him about yOgArUDha lakShaNa which you have mentioned below. More importantly, Arjuna specifically mentions about the *yOga* that which Lord elaborated in the previous verses by saying *yOyaM yOgastvayA prOktaH*..prabhuji, kindly tell me which *yOga sthithi* Arjuna thinks *chaNchala* if it is not yogArUDha lakShaNa?? I firmly believe once jnAni establishes himself in Atma jnAna, there is no return for him due to *chaNchala manaH* (first of all where is the question of manO bhuddhi & ahankAra for a jnAni & its influence on *him*!!!)...Krishna says Arjuna that though it is very difficult to maintain equanimity, it can be achieved through *abhyAsa* & *vairAgya*...its a hint of prasankhyAna since the state of yOgArUdha is the suppression of mental activity hence this state requires sustained effort. Whereas brahma jnAni's realization is intuitive (shAstra janita - anubhava gamya jnAna) not through any deliberate means, it is eternal & permanent, no prasankhyAna required to *maintain* that state continuously. Prabhuji, as you know both shankara & shreshwara strongly refutes prasankhyAna vAda in bruhadAraNyaka shruti bhAshya & bhAshya vArtika respectively. >> Regarding the discussion as to whether yOgArUdha can be a Brahma Jnani? First: Shankara has no doubt that the fruit of dhyana yoga as explained in the sixth chapter is the ultimate realization and that the Sadhaka becomes (for want of a better term) a Brahma Jnani. This is evident from Shankara's commentary on 6.28: "yogasya phalan brahmaikatva darsanam sarvasamsara vicchedakaranam" (6.28) the fruit of Yoga (Meditation or specifically Nidhidhyasana) is the identity with Brahman which is the cause of uprooting of Samsara in its entirety. >> > This yOgArUdha cannot be a brahma jnAni > so, yOgArUdha can be some time yOga bhrasthTa also since the dhyAna yOgi is > still an antaranga sAdhaka & not a jnAni >> Next: If the discussion of Yoga Bhrasta is reason to say yOgArUdha cannot be a brahma jnAni, then we will have to question Lord Krishna's description of Stitha Prajna also! For, right in the middle of the description of the Stitha Prajna or Jivan Mukta, Lord Krishna talks about how a person can slip away and what he should do to avert a fall. Example verses are : yatato hyapi kaunteya , taani sarvaaNi , dhyaayato vishhayaanpu, raagadveshhavimuktaistu Does this mean that a Jivan Mukta can also have a fall and become a 'bhrasta'? We all know that there is no possibility of a fall for a Jivan Mukta. regards Sundar Rajan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 Namaste, It is not for me to say whether you are right or wrong. I think you are applying the ArurukShu lakShaNa to yogArUDha. praNAms Sri Sunder Hattangadi prabhuji Hare Krishna Thanks a lot for your kind clarification...you have every right to guide me in the right understanding of the verses prabhuji..Hence, I further seek your clarifications with the following doubts : Firstly, I dont think Arjuna expressing his doubts only about ArurukShu here...he specifically talks about mind which is diverted from yOga (yOgAcchalitamAnasaH)....Secondly, I dont see any valid reason why Arjuna asking about Arurukshu when krishna describing him about yOgArUDha. & thirdly, I dont know why krishna addressing yOgi who has fallen from the pAth of yOga as *yOga bhrashTa* instead of karma bhraShTa (if at all its meant for ArurukShu) when he categorically classifies karmi, jnAni & yOgi at the end of the chapter. Humble praNAms onceagain, Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2005 Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 Namaste Sri Bhaskar-ji praNAms Sri Sundar Rajan prabhuji Hare Krishna Nice to see your mails after a long time. SR prabhuji: Regarding the discussion as to whether yOgArUdha can be a Brahma Jnani? First: Shankara has no doubt that the fruit of dhyana yoga as explained in the sixth chapter is the ultimate realization and that the Sadhaka becomes (for want of a better term) a Brahma Jnani. This is evident from Shankara's commentary on 6.28: "yogasya phalan brahmaikatva darsanam sarvasamsara vicchedakaranam" (6.28) the fruit of Yoga (Meditation or specifically Nidhidhyasana) is the identity with Brahman which is the cause of uprooting of Samsara in its entirety. bhaskar : Thanks a lot for quoting shankara bhAshya. Yes, I too agree that shankara has agreed that the *phala* of yOga (this is adhyAtma yOga based on shrutyanugrahIta *nidhidhyAsana* (ref. vide kaTOpaniShad) not PY as we have seen /discussed earlier) is Atmaikatva jnAna. Shankara confirms this while commenting on the verses like AtmasaMsThaM manaH krutvA & sarva bhUtasThaM AtmAnaM sarvabhUtAnichAtmani & tells us the ultimate result of adhyAtma yOga. But, the yOgArUDha who is engaged in antaranga sAdhana just like ArurukShu has the every possibility to get his mind diverted from the main goal (samatva darShana) since his is the temporary state gained from the sense control. Arjuna's questions are very appropriate in this context & krishna's answers also show that there is some prasaNkhyAna required to *maintain* that state in the case of yOgArUdha...but as we know, for a brahman jnAni who has realised his true nature there is no need of maintaining that tempo since his knowledge is intuitive & quite natural to him. AFAIK sofar we've heard terms like karma braShTa, yOga braShTa etc. but not Atma jnAna braShTa....is it not prabhuji?? SR prabhuji: We all know that there is no possibility of a fall for a Jivan Mukta. bhaskar : Yes agreed, so my question remains as it is...which yOga bhraShTa krishna talking in the 6th chapter then?? Arjuna asks about the fallen yOgi who has neither karma phala nor yOga phala & krishna clarifies this yOgabraShTa's position. I am eagerly awaiting clarifications from Sri Sunder Hattangadi prabhuji as well. Further, if yOgArUDha is nothing but brahma jnAni, he cannot fall *from that state* anyway...so he cannot be a yOgabraShTa...but krishna talks about yOga braShTa immediately after hearing Arjuna's question question relating to this...from which yOga?? then can a yogi have a fall?? kindly clarify. Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar PS : This doubt did not flash me when I was in gItA bhAshya shanti, otherwise I'd have asked my guruji...Anyway, I'll ask him very soon. In the meantime, I seek the clarifications from the learned scholars of this list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2005 Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 advaitin, bhaskar.yr@i... wrote: >> > SR prabhuji: > > Regarding the discussion as to whether yOgArUdha can be a Brahma > Jnani? > > First: > > Shankara has no doubt that the fruit of dhyana yoga as explained in > the sixth chapter is the ultimate realization and that the Sadhaka > becomes (for want of a better term) a Brahma Jnani. This is evident > from Shankara's commentary on 6.28: > > "yogasya phalan brahmaikatva darsanam sarvasamsara vicchedakaranam" > (6.28) the fruit of Yoga (Meditation or specifically Nidhidhyasana) > is the identity with Brahman which is the cause of uprooting of > Samsara in its entirety. > > bhaskar : > > Thanks a lot for quoting shankara bhAshya. Yes, I too agree that shankara > has agreed that the *phala* of yOga (this is adhyAtma yOga based on > shrutyanugrahIta *nidhidhyAsana* (ref. vide kaTOpaniShad) not PY as we have > seen /discussed earlier) is Atmaikatva jnAna. > > Further, if yOgArUDha is nothing but brahma jnAni, he cannot fall *from > that state* anyway...so he cannot be a yOgabraShTa...but krishna talks > about yOga braShTa immediately after hearing Arjuna's question question > relating to this...from which yOga?? then can a yogi have a fall?? kindly > clarify. > > Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! > bhaskar > Namaste Bhaskar prabhuji, Sunderrajan-ji and others I bow to you all for your expertise in such analyses of the words yogArUDha and yoga-bhraShTa. I for one, cannot compete with you on such expertise. But I have an elementary doubt: Why does the question of equating yogArUDha with 'brahma-jnAni' arise? Did not a VisvAmitra fall? Did not a JaDa-bharata fall in his previous janma? Before the fall were they not considered a brahma-jnAni by others? All the confusion arises because of the hypotheses that once somebody has been termed a brahma-jnAni he cannot 'fall'. That may be the definition of a 'brahma-jnAni'. I accept the definition. But a brahma-jnAni never announces himself that he is a brahma-jnAni. It is others who think himself so. A JaDa-bharata was thought so. A SadAshiva-brahmendra was thought so when some passer-by woman observed that 'even this brahma-jnAni needs the incline of the land-divider for use as a pillow while he is resting!'. And when JaDa-bharata poured out his compassion on the young baby deer and when SadAshiva changed his posture on hearing those words of the passer-by woman, they both had the fall from the yogArUDha state. They were probably not yet brahma-jnAnis then though others thought themselves so. So when Krishna talks about yoga-bhraShTa he refers to those yogArUDha people who were thought by others as a brahma-jnAni but were still missing it by a hair's breadth. This explanation is only based on an elementary understanding of the situation, without any support from any bhAshya. Would this help? PraNAms to all advaitins. profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2005 Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 advaitin, bhaskar.yr@i... wrote: > > ..Hence, I > further seek your clarifications with the following doubts : > > Firstly, I dont think Arjuna expressing his doubts only about > ArurukShu here...he specifically talks about mind which is diverted from > yOga (yOgAcchalitamAnasaH)....Secondly, I dont see any valid reason why > Arjuna asking about Arurukshu when krishna describing him about yOgArUDha. > & thirdly, I dont know why krishna addressing yOgi who has fallen from the > pAth of yOga as *yOga bhrashTa* instead of karma bhraShTa (if at all its > meant for ArurukShu) when he categorically classifies karmi, jnAni & yOgi > at the end of the chapter. Namaste, At the present level of my understanding, I am unable to answer your question. I may be able attempt it if you can clarify the differences in lakShaNa-s of the ArurukShu and yogArUDha. (I have already stated my understanding of yogArUDha as the lakShaNa-s mentioned in 6:27- 28). Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 And when JaDa-bharata poured out his compassion on the young baby deer and when SadAshiva changed his posture on hearing those words of the passer-by woman, they both had the fall from the yogArUDha state. They were probably not yet brahma-jnAnis then though others thought themselves so. So when Krishna talks about yoga-bhraShTa he refers to those yogArUDha people who were thought by others as a brahma-jnAni but were still missing it by a hair's breadth. praNAms Sri Prof. VK prabhuji Hare Krishna Thanks for your kind clarification...yes, it is futile attempt on our part to ascertain who is jnAni or otherwise....Based on shAstra-s & shankara bhAshya, we are trying to make our own hypothesis about the *state*of jnAni & in that process we succumbed to some prejudices & expect jnAni should behave according to our whimsical expections....If we stretch the above examples already given by you above, our gItAchArya bhagavan Sri Krishna himself was the victim of anger when pitAmaha bhIShma shooting arrows at him, Sri rAmachandra grieved for sIta like any other ordinary human being, bhagavan ramaNa cried at the death of his pets, rAmakrishna paramahamsa's unusal affiliation towards his desciples!!! etc. etc. were they came down at the time of those incidents from the dizzy heights of brahma jnAna or through these episodes they want to teach a lesson for us or its mere *LILA* of theirs?? only they can say.... we, in our own sphere of avidya, see the *jnAnAtara* state of those noble souls... Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 I may be able attempt it if you can clarify the differences in lakShaNa-s of the ArurukShu and yogArUDha. (I have already stated my understanding of yogArUDha as the lakShaNa-s mentioned in 6:27- 28). Humble praNAms Respected Sri Sunder Hattangadi prabhuji Hare krishna prabhuji, I earnestly hope you are not testing me here. From the below two observation from your goodself, it is clear that you know the difference between Arurukshu & yogArUDha. For your kind reference, I am reproducing those lines below : //quote // Further, Gita 6:3, has given the categories of ArurukShu and yogArUDha, the former who is aspiring to the latter state of perfection. It is not for me to say whether you are right or wrong. I think you are applying the ArurukShu lakShaNa to yogArUDha. // unquote// The categorization of Arurukshu & yOgArUDha are very clear in the 3rd verse of the 6th chapter as you mentioned above....I too not thinking anything beyond that for the differences. But it is interesting to note that Lord did not address the perfectionist in karma yOga as *ArurukShu* not even once in the entire third chapter of karma yOga...though this chapter exclusively deals with karma yoga / karma yogi. Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2005 Report Share Posted June 10, 2005 Namaste Sri Bhaskar-ji and Sri Prof-VKji > > So when Krishna talks about yoga-bhraShTa he refers to those > yogArUDha people who were thought by others as a brahma-jnAni but > were still missing it by a hair's breadth. > It is true that not every aspirant who aspires for perfection acheives that in the same life. In fact, isn't there a Brahma Sutra that talks about this very topic? aihikamaprastutapratibandhe taddarshanaAt.h (Brahma Sutra) The dawn of knowledge is even in the present life if there is no obstruction to the means (for this is seen in the scriptures) And the commentaries talk about obstructions to even the desire to know, obstructions to shravana, manana and nidhidhyasana and Sakshatkara. "When prarabhda obstructions, that is sins that have begun to fructify do not pertain to shravana, manana and nidhidhyasana but only to Sakshatkara then shravana, manana and nidhidhyasana are accomplished but Sakshatkara does not arise in that birth and does so only in a subsequent birth." - reading from a commentary I believe Sage Vamadeva is quoted as an example for the above and in recent times Sri Ramana may be example too. But a true aspirant understands that dhyana yoga as spelt out in the 6th chapter is the same as Nidhidhyasana and that Nidhidhyasana is the final step towards liberation. A. Dhyana yoga is the proximate means: (1) As Shankara has pointed out right at the start of 6th chapter that DhyanaYoga which is expounded in that chapter is the "antaranga" proximate means of "samyag darshana" right knowledge or realization and that "yogasya phalan brahmaikatva darsanam sarvasamsara vicchedakaranam" (6.28) the fruit of Yoga (Meditation or specifically Nidhidhyasana) is the identity with Brahman which is the cause of uprooting of Samsara in its entirety. (2) dhyanenatmani pasyanti kecidatmanamatmana. anye samkhyena yogena karmayogena capare..13.25.. The Uttama Adhikaris who through Shravana and Manana done in a earlier birth have become free from defects such as being unable to accept the unity of Jiva and Brahman (Pasyante) realize (Atmanam) the atma (Dhyanena) through Dhyana which is the same as Nidhidhyasana (3) The prasthana traya presents and teaches Nidhidhyasana as resolute dhyana culminating in Samadhi and the shastras repeatedly prescribe and stress Samadhi and speak of it resulting in Sakshatkara and Liberation B. Spiritual effort is never wasted: In response to Arjuna's question, the Lord clarifies na hi kalyaaNakRitkashchid.h durgati.n taata gachchhati .. 6\-40.. For, no one, engaged in good meets with a deplorable end and we have also seen from previous postings: http://www.escribe.com/culture/advaitin/m25587.html C. The path is 'pleasurable' (for want of a better term) A true Yogi has grit and determination and is ready for the long haul: Even though the path may be long, it is not painful, as the true Yogi really enjoys his/her meditation and loves to continue it anyway. (Lord Krishna uses the term "sukhena") D. Any true aspirant should realise that results may not be instantaneous: Shankara mentions in His Brahma Sutra commentary : >> quote Further it is not as though a person pursues the means of knowledge only with the intention that he should obtain liberating knowledge in this birth itself or not at all. There is no restriction against the person entertaining the intention that he should get knowledge in this very birth or thereafter. >> end quote more later Sundar Rajan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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